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High End Luxury Cars

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  • mbukukanyaumbukukanyau Posts: 200
    Looks like the starship enterprise or some crazy romulan warbird inside.
    The screen looks like a warp core, and the steering comes straight from a Chevy silvarado. Its no where near the cadillac.
    I bet you in quality it will be no where close to the STS.
    Chevrolet Silverado 1500 Series Dashboard
    image
    2005 Audi A6 Interior; European Model Shown
    image

    Gm is catching up to the best in interior design, quality and execution
  • I am trying to decide whether to buy a Mercedes E55 or SL55. The cars are truly beautiful and I am sure they are exciting to drive. If I trade my Porshe, I will lose a lot of money, but I don't drive it that often. I have been reading the Mercedes Boards, and I can see that many people have reliability problems. In the past, I would trade without hesitation. There are so many excellent choices. I feel a little shallow agonizing over this.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,071
    . . .let me see if I am following along correctly.

    1. New STS ushers out the old Seville, period. STS will be the "only" offering (at this time) no "detuned" less sporty version like the old SLS?

    2. New '05 Audi interior reminds "us" of a Chevy interior and current Audi interiors are boring?

    Note: OK, I guess I see some similarities in the picures presented above -- what does the STS interior look like -- for comparison?

    Note2: Boring is a subjective term, the editors of such Car Guy (male or female "guy") publications as Car and Driver, Automobile and Road and Track seem to use the Audi interiors as "the standard that they hold others up to for comparison" -- often resorting to "this is an almost Audi-like interior, it is so good" or "the Audi interiors are "jewel like" with industry leading fit and finish.

    Note3: Please observe this says nothing for or against Cadillac especially the new STS. The write ups about the new BMW interiors are pretty much all over the board, some like them, some don't, some editors calling them "stark."

    3. The new Cadillac will be "better" than the German cars? In what way?

    Am I correct that the new STS will indeed have a 116" wheelbase? Wouldn't that contribute to a "less dynamic" chassis? Wouldn't that contribute to a more comfortable, smooth, touring car, but, less to some of the dynamics that Audi and BMW (at least) are often praised for having?

    The fact that the brand new Audi dealer is next to one of the "best" Cadillac dealers in Cincinnati, will compel me to look at the STS, especially if it is priced between $45 and $55K (which is where I assume the new Audi A6 will come to).

    I would only consider the STS with Magnaride and AWD and if a "sport package" is on the check sheet, I guess I would also be compelled to test the Caddy and the Audi back to back with similar sporting intentions.

    Perhaps this is unfair, as it seems like the new STS should be put up against the Phaeton V8 or the Audi A8L (or perhaps even the A8) -- then the Cadillac will most certainly win the MSRP race, to say nothing of a GMAC incentive here and there.

    Since there seems to be some real passion (pro) for the Cadillac here on this forum, I am keen to find out more. And, since the Audi and the Caddy are, as yet, not on sale, the debate will be, by necessity, based on the pre-release info and preview tests (if any).

    Over.
  • mbukukanyaumbukukanyau Posts: 200
    You asked
    ". The new Cadillac will be "better" than the German cars? In what way?"
    In overall quality.

    You asked " what does the STS interior look like -- for comparison?"

    http://www.bomengen.com/gm/sts/STS_6_web.jpg

    You asked "Am I correct that the new STS will indeed have a 116" wheelbase? Wouldn't that contribute to a "less dynamic" chassis? Wouldn't that contribute to a more comfortable, smooth, touring car, but, less to some of the dynamics that Audi and BMW (at least) are often praised for having?"

    Not necesarily

    you said
    "Perhaps this is unfair, as it seems like the new STS should be put up against the Phaeton V8 or the Audi A8L (or perhaps even the A8) -- then the Cadillac will most certainly win the MSRP race, to say nothing of a GMAC incentive here and there."

    No, remember STS is american. So its Amerisized. That is the american character. You get more sheetmetal for your buck in America
  • chavis10chavis10 Posts: 166
    The A8L and Phaeton's wheelbases are considerably longer. Try 121" or the same as the S class. The CTS is considerably larger than the 3 for the same money and that's the same philosophy with the STS and SRX.

    In theory a larger wheelbase will make turn-in less crisp, but this isn't a narrow focused automobile. BMW favors sporting intentions over passenger comfort. Most other luxury brands try to give the best of both worlds. Would good is world class handling if you can't even fit decent sized adults in the back?
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,071
    . . .of the STS with the 5 series and the A6 is "price class?" Obviously, I have not seen the new STS or the new A6 in person.

    It just seems that the STS, past tense, I grant you, was much larger than the 5 series BMW or the A6.

    What would appear to be the case, is that the STS would attract buyers looking for either larger cars or within the price range (BTW what is the price range of the new STS) of the new STS.

    I have a current model allroad (an A6 by another name) and I can't seem to find its wheelbase, but I assume it is less than 116.4".

    My point has nothing to do with challenging the "quality" assumption -- for I cannot presume to know what the quality of either the 2005 STS or 2005 A6 will be.

    I am rooting for Cadillac, don't get me wrong -- but I have been a long time Audi driver and have test driven multiple STS's (obviously NOT the new one), and they were very nice and the Northstar engine was potent -- but the sporting capabilities of these current gen STS cars was, er, "muted" (especially when compared with the Germans).

    I looked at the edmunds preview and 255 x 45 x 18" tires are encouraging for a sea change from the old STS to this new one.

    Like I said, this is getting interesting.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    I'm curious. I can understand going from Porsche (911?) to sedan, but would you mind sharing your reason for considering switching to the SL55? This is not criticism, just chat. Are you the gent who mentioned selling his TT a while back? I have always liked the SL, it's one helluva plush roadster, but there is quite a difference with a Porsche at that dollar level.
  • chavis10chavis10 Posts: 166
    The wheelbase (108.7") on the current a A6 is relatively short for its overall length (192") based on its front drive derived drivetrain. It has a large front overhang because the engine sits pretty far foward. The old STS had a 112.2" wheelbase with a 201" length. The new one has a 116.4" WB with a 196.3" length. You can see the difference. The old one was indeed larger than the competition but don't forget that Cadillac can't forget it's current buyers.
    I don't particularly have a beef with current Audi interiors. I'm sure they are very high quality, I just don't find the design as inviting as say certain Lexus models or the old STS. Maybe because they seemed darker and more business like.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,675
    Forgot to tell you - I took the 2004 LS in the Flint Mica color. After sitting in a black custom lux car at the dealership I fell in love with the black nappa leather with antique walnut wood trim. So I opted for the custom lux in flint mica with the black nappa leather. The antique walnut wood is gorgeous and the sample picture in the LS book can't hold a candle to how great it looks in the car. As edspider says the interior is where you live and the nappa leather and that wood make for a stunning home. The 2004 LS really does have an extraordinary ride. Best ever and the six speed makes you feel the acceleration difference to the 2001. I take it home in three weeks. Three year lease at more than $125 per month cheaper than my 2001 LS even though the sticker is $3800 more. Interest rates are half of what they were in 2001. Next gen LS arrives in 2007 and I will be ready for it. By the way the car is residualizing at 60% after three years even this late in the model year - much higher than I expected.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I can't help but ask this. You're stating that GM has caught up to the best in interior design, and you're basing this on a picture that allegedly shows similarities between the new A6 and a Chevy truck, so you mean to tell me that when Cadillac uses that very same interior design for their 60K Escalade family there is something special or top-notch about it? If the new A6 interior has flaws (and it does), and resembles a GM truck then what would you call that same interior design in a 60K Caddy truck? Also, the Chevy/Slade interior is about 10 years behind a VW or Audi in quality of materials, even if their design is similar (not that I agree with that they are).

    M
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Okay, well we are going to say right now that the Escalade is not a part of our subject here, so we aren't going to get into that, those earlier pictures notwithstanding.

    Let's talk about our subject cars, and let's do so in a civil, respectful and non-confrontational manner.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    Have you heard about when the MY 2007 LS will arrive at dealer showrooms? Is it early spring or late Fall 2006 ? I am agonizing if I should jump into the 2004 and trade-up to the '07 release, or stuff my mouth with my fist and continue to hold out for 2 more years ??? My dealer here is playing dumb, wants me to give the 2004 a shot, and have been sandbagging me on the 2007 model.
  • I leave for a few days and came back and I thought I had accidentally hopped into the Caddy forum.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,675
    It's definitely 2007 but no release date is set. The execs at my dealership think it will be spring 2006 based on their meetings and correspondence with Lexus. Remember also that they are one of the biggest dealerships in the US so they have clout with Lexus. I doubt that most dealerships will share data so easily. My dealer - Ray Catena - will tend to share with long time customers because he also sells MB, Jags etc, so their primary interest is 1 - keep you with Lexus, 2 - keep you with Ray so that if you go MB, Jag ... you'll go with him and not someone else. It's their belief that Lexus doesn't want the S-class to have much of a lead on them in bringing the new edition to market. It's also their belief that the new LS will generate a lot of excitement because of the new hybrid technology it will bring to the market. I've heard largely what lenscap posted through them so there is something strong behind it. But I was told mpg will be in the 35 range and the HP will be north of 400. I don't know if they are coming out with a V12 and I don't care. The hybrid will cause a profound change in this segment.

    The 2004 is fabulous. The ride is phenomenal and the road feel is tighter than before. The custom lux and ultra lux are even quieter than the other LS editions because of the glass. Hope it doesn't interfere with EZPass. My ex-boss has a problem with his A8 because the windshield glass prevents the readers from picking up EZpass. If you can swing it I'd lease it for 3 years. The 2007 LS will be much hotter than the 2001 was - IMO - so it will be a MSRP or above priced car for a prolonged period. By spring and summer of 2007 the prices will subside. A three year lease starting in April or May positions you well. Lease prices are great right now because LS residuals are higher than just about any car in this segment and interest rates are low. I'm actually paying $138 a month less than 2001 for a lot more car.
  • edspider1edspider1 Posts: 195
    ljflx and I think exactly alike. I bought the 2001 the month it hit the showroom. Last Dec I decided to trade it in and get the 2004. Like ljflx, I choose flint mica with black/walnut and expect delivery in a couple of weeks. (100 day wait). I fully expect to trade it in when the next gen comes around whenever that might be.
  • chavis10chavis10 Posts: 166
    I created this topic so I don't wanna see it get shut down. Let's stay on task, it's really not that hard to do.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,675
    Did you take the custom lux? The antique walnut wood with the black interior is the most beautiful wood I've seen in a car. I said I wouldn't get another black interior car (had black on black 1998 LS400) but this interior is super rich and very classy. Need to go to a Maybach to beat this interior as far as I'm concerned.

    By the way - we are obviously car Luxuriasts. I loved that phrase you coined.

    OAC - just do it. Take a 36 month lease and enjoy 3 great car driving years and then you're primed for the 2007.
  • edspider1edspider1 Posts: 195
    My 01 is an ultra. When the car was first introduced that's pretty much all they were getting in. Back then the ultras had different woods, too. Ecru and black. The ecru had a washed out gray wood. The black was called indigo bordeau that looked deep purple in full sun.

    Anyway for 2004, I got the black with antique walnut. I know I'll like it better than the black I have now. I'm hoping it will look richer and warmer. I stuck with the ultra because that's what I had before. I was afraid to find out what loosing the air suspension would do to the ride. (probably nothing). But also my friends have come to know me as the one whose car has all the buttons in the back. No one cries "shotgun" in an Ultra.
  • andy71andy71 Posts: 96
    If and when the Lexus LS500 is coming out? I keep hearing they also might bring a LS600 to the market either in 2006 or 07; is there any truth to that rumor?
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    For your suggestions on moving up to the 2004.

    Here is my problem.

    When the 2004 LS came out, I went to take a long hard look at the first one to arrive at my dealer showroom floor. I was impressed visually, but felt the changes were too subtle, especially compared to the LF-S concept. So I decided to take a pass and wait for the complete re-design in MY 2007. Reading, seeing and hearing all the great things about the 2004 (esp the 6-speed) made me go back to take another look. Yes, I still like it, but just not that much to pull the trigger right now. Maybe my hesitation has to do with the fact that I like my 2nd gen exterior design more than the 3rd gen '01 - '04. And hence would much prefer the redesign especially if it has close resemblance to the LF-S concept. That would really give me a lot of joy to own such a car.

    So I am prepared to wait a couple of years. My current '99 has given me nothing but pleasant ownership experience. No complaints whatsoever. Now with 80K miles, it continues to perform flawlessly, making the choice of buying a new one right now that much more difficult. But I am happy to note that my dealer was not sand-bagging me with his lack of info on release date.
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    I was wondering what the Escalade had to do with the cars in this topic. I'm glad I wasn't the only one disturbed by Merc1's comments.

    The interior of the A6 looks horrible, the interior of the 5 series is better, but still stark and business like. As far as I'm concerned Lexus has been doing the best interiors for years and cadillac seems to be headed more int he lexus direction, while the Germans are doing God knows what. The STS interior is a definite improvement over the CTS and we all know the interior was the biggest source of criticism for the CTS. Assuming the CTS' interior upgrade in '05 makes it looks like the STS the CTS could definitely become one of the class leaders.
  • stevesteinstevestein Posts: 263
    If you don't mind posting it, what kind of deal did you get?
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,675
    Car stickers at a tad over $65k. It has smart access - which is really nice. I get it for $62k. I didn't haggle the price to the bone so its possible you can do better. But every LS due in through the third week of April at Ray Catena is already sold and there are only 5 or 6 on the lot - which they tell me are sold also. Chase is $941 per month and Lexus Finance is $988. Leases are $0 down (I never put money down), $0 security and residuals are 60-61% for Chase and 58% for LFS. Chase gets a $300 turn-in fee but also gives you a $1500 damage waiver. I'm doing 15k miles. Take about $25-30 off if you do 12k miles. My last lease was 12k miles. Per edmunds most LS cars in our area are discounted about $2k so I'm satisfied. I'm funny - in business I fight much harder on price issues than I do in my personal life but I learned a long time ago that any business deal that's not a win-win - or doesn't connote a win-win feeling - is a failure.

    By the way a neighbor who took a euro-sport LS in October paid full sticker as did two other town friends I know who bought in December. Lastly if you go to Ray's motor car web-site (not his Lexus site but his overall site) don't pay attention to the new car availability list. It's way out of date - at least for Lexus and probably every other brand he sells.
  • hage57hage57 Posts: 24
    I am buying or leasing an 04 ls430 ultra,flint mica, with ecru. I was able to negotiate a purchase price of $4,900 off of the list. I am checking on a lease(having not leased before)and the money cost is all right, at 2.28%, but the residual on this car is quoted at 50%, by the way, this a 36 month, 15,000 miles per year, from Lexus Financial. Based on your last post, this residual seems very low. I would guess that residuals from base car to a ultra car will vary, but do they then vary from dealer to dealer, or does Lexus Financial set the rate to all the Lexus dealers. Your comments/advice would be appreciated.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Hope you folks are aware of our dedicated Lexus LS discussion - there's a lot of information there that some of you would find very interesting, and it's a more appropriate place for some of this recent conversation.
  • hage57hage57 Posts: 24
    Sorry Pat, you are absolutely right, I didn't notice which board I was on!
  • stevesteinstevestein Posts: 263
    I wasn't paying attention either.
  • lenscaplenscap Posts: 854
    Congrats on the new LS! I'll post my comments on the LS board.
  • lenscaplenscap Posts: 854
    The concept Lexus coupe that will be at the NY Auto Show that I thought might be the next IS and you thought might be the next SC...we may both be wrong.

    Business Week Online has an article all about Lexus. In it they mention "Project Mount Everest," a supercoupe that Lexus claims will hold its own against the $141,800 Aston Martin DB7 Vantage and $113,250 Mercedes SL55 AMG. The car is said to have a V10 engine and Lexus says it may be introduced as soon as the Tokyo Motor Show this fall. If that's true then it would make sense to have a concept version out at this time. Oh, by the way, the expected price is $150,000.
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