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High End Luxury Cars

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  • Every website I visit, including Jaguar's own website and various leasing websites, uses a residual value of about 47% in lease calculations for the Jaguar XJR. These same sites have more realistic (and much higher) residuals for every other luxury automobile. Is Jaguar just trying to disincent people from leasing or is this vehicle really going to depreciate this quickly??!! I am looking at 36 month 12k miles per year lease. A good BMW or Mercedes should have a residual in the low 60% area.
  • has been this route and doesn't wanting to be eating thousands at the auction on lease returns. The 47% figure is probably too high.

    It's a testament to the real value of the car. Maybe this will inspire you to consider a different make.
  • lenscaplenscap Posts: 854
    I saw the new Jaguar commercial on TV last night and it made me think about Jaguar's marketing strategy. The commercial said "Aluminum makes it lighter, lighter makes it faster."

    Okay, I get it. But then how do Lexus and BMW build cars that are even faster without using expensive-to-repair aluminum (according to Car & Driver)? If Lexus and BMW can do it, why can't Jaguar? Why go through all the expense of using aluminum when cars can be designed just as fast, and faster, using traditional materials?

    I just don't get the advantages of using aluminum. Perhaps Jaguar should be touting advantages other than making the car faster.

    This is in no way anything negative toward the car, but more questioning the wisdom of the marketing strategy.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    Front business page of today's NY Times had in depth story on Hybrid technology based on the Tokyo auto show. Toyota is way ahead of everyone on this. In fact they are pushing through so many patents that one financial expert quoted in the article said that everyone is going to have to go through Toyota in the future. Nissan already has cut a deal with them to utilize their technolgy.
  • GM is *fighting* Toyota on this fuel cell/gas-electric hybrid technology. GM believes it can produce a fuel-cell powered car by 2010, no one else believes this is remotely possible ! OTOH, Toyota already has a hybrid car by 2001. So here you have one company on a wishing campaign, and another actually delivering its promise. Hmmmmm.... If I were a betting guy, I'd put my money on Toyota cleaning up in this area. Meaning: Toyota will be the king of future technology in fueling our cars. Just imagine what that means to the automotive industry. It is a mind-boggling concept which many people have yet to comprehend the enormity of today.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    I didn't get it either until syswei brought it up and I started paying attention. Maybe this, at least in part is why Toyota stock trades at so much higher a multiple than any other auto stock. Now it's already influencing my purchase decisions so that I can get at a hybrid car on the go round after this. It's amazing how little press this gets in the auto rags but in the business world this is similar to Microsoft re-stating the computer world in 1985. It is enormous and the higher gas prices go the bigger it gets.
  • Look at the cons to hybrids:

    1) Better gas mileage (could see 35mpg RX400H next year) The 2004 Prius is factory rated to 55mpg !

    2) Power boost, where a V6 feels and accelerates like a V8 !

    3) All of these with zero emmisions (PZEV)

    and

    4) Depending on which state you live in, you could get a tax credit or tax deduction (according to IRS) for owning one (see: fndlyfmrflyr "Toyota Prius 2004+" Oct 29, 2003 10:46pm

    More interesting read on the auto industry and hybrids is here:

    http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/03_43/b3855072.htm
  • You are right on Tony
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    Interesting. Chrysler seems hopelessly lost. Who on earth wants a noisy Diesel. No chance. I wonder where the Europeans are on this. Gas prices in europe are triple the US so like Japan they should have started sooner rather than later. But given the Chrysler comment it would seem that Mercedes is nowhere and they are always the leader.
  • If any vehicle can take a run at the sub 50% three year residual, it is the new 7 series. And my last three cars have been BMWs. It is painful to look at any other make, but they really haven't given my any choice. Save your biased advice for some other sucker. There is NO CHANCE the 3 year resid on the new XJR will be less than 47%, unless someone finds away to add an aftermarket iDrive to it...
  • I agree 100% with you. How can the Europeans not be in the forefront here ? It is a serious omission/oversight, imo. Merc or BMW are not even a blimp on the hybrid race. Toyota got everyone beat, and it's not even close. Scary stuff !
  • ksurgksurg Posts: 48
    No way San Jose. It seems people on this page are polarized between Japanese vs. German vehicles. At least in Northern CA VW is huge. Recently passat's and jetta's( not to mention new Beetles ) have been multiplying like rabbits(pardon the pun). If I'm not mistaken they have been well reviewed as well. Now I agree that the Phaeton seems like an odd decision for VW, it would be like a Toyota Avalon priced against a LS430. On the other hand a Toureg is a thinking mans Cayenne( see recent article in Road and Track). For all the opinions expressed on this page, imo they're strengths and weaknesses to all manufactures and models. I like the differences. Though I wish my teutonic cars had the reliabilty of Lexus I still would rather be behind the wheel of Audi, BMW, MB or Jaguar(OK so its Brit). Why...because. Not all car purchases can reduced to rational decisions and the day it does I bet driving becomes boring!
  • ksurgksurg Posts: 48
    Wow..I just read through that page on the CTS-V vs. S4. I guess I should have said American vs.Japanese vs. German in the post above. Frankly I visit the discussions for fun not to justify my opinions. Maybe cornellpremed had a bad day or his dad owns a Caddy dealership. I'm not sure I understand build quality and reliability either I just know beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I'd sure hate to have a relentlessly reliable car I didn't like. So far I've had god luck with Porsche's, Audi's and GM trucks as opposed to bad luck with BMW and Infinity. I have never found JDP surveys to be helpful.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    I'm quite rational about my auto purchses (have been for 10+ years now) and driving is lots of fun except - when it rains or snows.
  • I have a brother-in-law who is a genious in fuel cell tech (has over 1/2 dozen patents and more pending) He says hydrogen cells are just not practical and may never be.

    He thinks a new fuel needs to be found and some work is being done with coal that may pan out someday but doubts anything practical can be done in the next 10 years.

    Personally I would think Nuclear may be a choice someday as a power source for cars.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Hey why are posts #3249 onward underlined and highlighted??? Anyway...

    ljflx,

    Let me be the first to say that I agree that Toyota is a leader in hyrbid-tech, no argument from me there. However you're knowledge of diesels seems to be of the past. They aren't anywhere near the noisy cars of the past, as most Americans have this perception. BMW, Audi, Mercedes, and other Euro makers have refined the diesel concept to the point of being nearly the same experience as gasoline car. A car like a S400 or 740d are quite remarkable. And yes before anyone from camp Lexus says it, DCX has struck a deal with Toyota also. I too will be impressed if the RX330 Hybrid works without a glitch. It does have the makings to change things dramatically. Though just like diesels I see a limited following for each. The first Prius was not without problems.

    bluestar1,

    You're killing me with this notion that just because the Europeans aren't first at this that somehow they've made an oversight and don't know what they're doing? Come on now thats a little bit much. They're working on hybrid tech and have been for years, just not the same kind as Toyota. Not that Toyota isn't ahead at the moment, not arguing that, but to say that the Europeans are clueless about any sort of hybrid tech is simply ridiculous.

    ksurg,

    Well that conversation was lacking on substance to say the least and was just too ridiculous for me.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Phaeton Pricing:

    http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2031010.001/page/6/v- olkswagen/1.html

    Looks like a loaded W12 will go for about 92K. Well below a S600 or 760Li, but pricer than every other V8 car out there except a loaded S500.

    M
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    An interesting article in today's Wall Street Journal says "In 1987, 46% of what BMW considers high-end sedans were sold in Europe. Now, markets outside of Europe account for 78% of that segment. The most important market for the most expensive BMW, the 12-cylinder 760 sedan, is China"...and for MB China "We import 8,000 cars a year, and 5,000 of that 8,000 are S-Classes." So a small market for now, but an interesting tilt towards the high end.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB106807546230842100-search,00.h- - tml?collection=wsjie%2F30day&vql_string=bmw%3Cin%3E%28article- - %2Dbody%29 (for subscribers)
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    The Ford Escape will use Toyota technology too...but it will incorporate technology from the OLD Prius, while being introduced a year after the NEW Prius.

    I haven't looked much into hydrogen fuel cells since it is so far away as a mass market technology, but I have a question for the board. The press sometimes calls hydrogen fuel cells "zero emissions" but doesn't it take energy/pollution to actually make the hydrogen (at the refinery or whatever), presumably by splitting water into its consituents?

    BTW, bluestar I think it's unfairly generous to call hybrid "zero emissions" since it is the gas engine that charges the battery. It is of course true that overall emissions from a hybrid are lower, consistent with the MPG improvements.
  • If you're looking for better resale then why are considering a jaguar? ALL, premium lux sedans (7 series) suffer big depreciation becasue of market forces propelled by the fact that most who want a car like that want a new one and those initial miles are expensive.
     Your M3 will break the bank used. It has great resale. Plus, driving that raggedy jag is what will really break your heart.

    HEY, this is a "high end luxury margue" discussion. Why all the toyota chatter?
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