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High End Luxury Cars

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  • am 16 and got a 98 bmw 750il, is it reliable? am hearin some bad stories. need to know specifically about the 98 model(earlier and later dont count) :(

    I bought it cuz its not a copy(lexus), im too tall(jag), and i dont wanna show off (MB), my fellow students dont know what it is, and its better than a MB(my oppionin), it 'looks' longer than the new MB S(who i think they look like a elongated lincon ls w/ different front) so i chose a BMW.
  • ejerodejerod Posts: 86
    Well I do agree that the Japanese are great imitatiors, but what I do love about my GS is that from a distance, love it or hate it, you know what it is. The LS430 is NOT like that. From the front you know what it is, from the rear at a distance it a cross between the Avalon and the 99 S class Benz. That's what turned me off. Another thing I have to speak of is vehicular content. I don't mean just bells and whistles I mean solidity, rigidity and plain old substance. Close he door on the LS430 then close the door of the S Class. I did this.. with the vehicles side by side, there is a difference and I don't mean a subtle one. Then close the trunk, Hood etc... big difference..
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    With the "M" brand/image so strong now. I think we will get a M version of the next 7-Series. Yes M cars are sportier in part because of their manual trans, they handle a smidge better too, it's very close though. Two publications actually liked the E55's handling over the M5's, which was a surprise to me too. One thing is for certain the Japanese don't have a single car at this level.

    M
  • arcoatesarcoates Posts: 221
    Now, the question is, if they did make an M7, what engine would they enhance? The V12, or the V8? Edmunds has this review on the new X5 4.6is, and there is a sidenote regarding the X5 Le Mans addition with a 700bhp V12- wouldn't that look nice in the bonnet of the new 7's!

    With the new S55, BMW will have to turn out something that can compete- they are not going to lose money, even though it is a small market.

    A.R.
  • mvargo1mvargo1 Posts: 298
    limited edition 400HP AWD Q45 coming in the fall.
  • I am going to buy a Jag either 98 or 99 XJ8 or VDP.I have some questions for all you Jag people.
    If I buy a high mileage Jag VDP do you see any problems later with the high mileage? You can save mucho $$$ when buying a 98 XJ8 at 50k mileage than one at 20K mileage. Should I buy the 100K warranty? How is the realiability for a higher mileage Jag XJ8 opr VDP? It is rated very high on realiability at every site I have read but would like to hear for owners. Any problems?
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,687
    Ejerod - What are you talking about? The LS430 doors sound like bank vaults when you close them. Stop trying to convince yourself that you bought the right car. The S-500 is a great car but the LS430 is in its league at $18-$25k less and to many including myself it's a better car. As for copycats I'll bet in near future the S-Class interior is significantly upgraded to match Lexus which simply blows it away today. And if it wasn't for the Lexus competition MB would still be giving its customers the vinyl like leather it had in its cars 10 years ago and the ride quality would never been improved. The truth of the matter is that these two cars are so close that it really comes down to whether you want the LS430's glorious ride and better then average handling or the S-Class' glorious handling but harder ride. After that it's that gorgeous interior of Lexus and far superior reliability vs. MB's stature and "heritage". However heritage doesn't influence me. Last time I looked Microsoft and Intel, despite serious drops in share price still had a higher market cap than IBM with all its heritage.

    Be greatful these companies are in competition with each other as we the customers, regardless of our preferences, get better cars and have more choices.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Well knowing BMW I would say that they would go for a hi-po V12 in a car like an "M7". That way the have all engines covered. The baddest in-line-six (M3), V8 (M5) and V12 (M7). Of course such a motor would at least have to have 400hp to out-do the M5's engine. I think their is a real chance because they aren't going to let the S55 go unanswered. But then again the next 750iL is supposed to have at least 400hp, so a "Sport" version of that car will take on the S55.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    That vinyl like leather you speak of was that way for durability. Look at any older Mercedes and you'll see why. It was still real leather nevertheless. The thing I keep hearing from Lexus people is how they changed everything. Cars, Mercedes included ride better with each re-do, that's called progress. A Mercedes in particular always had a good ride/handling tradeoff, Lexus had nothing to do with the ride of a Mercedes. If Mercedes was chasing Lexus' ride they would have the same lifeless handling too. My biggest problem with Lexus is the constant copying, it's ridiculous, and on top of that they copy an "old" Mercedes' look. Silly.

    M
  • just did a comparo between the BMW 7-series, LS430, Mercedes S and Jaguar Vanden Plas. They were rated in that same order (BMW came in first, Lexus second, etc.). I meant to bring in the magazine today so I could post their conluding comments, but it's raining cats and dogs here, so I felt lucky just to get to my car without getting soaked! Maybe tomorrow....
  • arcoatesarcoates Posts: 221
    Of course go for a higher mileage jaguar. Any premium nameplate these days has engineered their engines to perfection and they will run forever.

    And of course get the warranty. It's not so much the engine that will go, but different parts around it. Might as well pay the money now, in case you get a lemon.

    Get a VDP for sure- the extra wheelbase is well worth it. And those aeroplane style picnic tables are great! If you get a standard wheelbase, the people in the back will be uncomfortable- I know from personal experience. The only reason to get the reg. wheelbase would be to opt for an XJR, and you're not looking for that.

    So, get a higher mileage one, so you get a better deal. Good luck.

    A.R.
  • arcoatesarcoates Posts: 221
    Surprise, surprise- the BMW came out on top. Any of the respectable magazines will always pick the drivers car.

    I would've stuckthe Mercedes 2nd, the jag 3rd and the Lexus last. I don't know why everyone likes the new LS that much- it doesn't break any new ground. Maybe for Lexus themselves, but not for the industry.

    A.R.
  • bwhbwh Posts: 76
    I went and drove all three. What is the big deal with the LS430, it drives like an overgrown Camry. If you like the ride buy a Buick or Caddilac, they isolate you like a comfy sofa. The styling of the Lexus leaves me shivering, bland, bland, bland. Now I must admit that it is very well put together. My mother-in-law has had her SC400 for 7 yrs and 100k miles, never ever had any type of problem with the car or the dealership. I'm sure a new SC430 will replace it shortly. Personally though the car strikes me as soulless. I tried talking my wife into an S500 over the BMW for a little better reliability and service. After driving all three we own a 750iL. It is far and away the most fun to drive, the S500 is no slouch, but the BMW was clearly better. I guess I also have trouble comparing cars to investments. Cars are far too disposable to be considered this way. Besides not one of the cars up for discussion will become any type of appreciating classic. Thankfully there is competition, this gives us different flavors to choose from. Maybe I am just still too young to appreciate the serenity of the Lexus driving experience. I tried to like it, it is the most reliable, and has the best service support system extant. But lets face it, the car is a dud. The Germans still build some soul into their cars. I guess the thought of a few extra dealer visits doesn't bother me that much, after all it is a great excuse to try out something else for a day.
  • arcoatesarcoates Posts: 221
    It is so refreshing to see someone with taste- i.e. someone that agrees with me! I would kill to plunge my foot down and be rewarded with all the creamy torque from that 5.4L V12!

    There you have it- someone who has tested all 3 cars and came away buying the BMW, with second choice the Mercedes and in a distant third the Lexus. As it should be.

    A.R.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,687
    When a company with Toyota's financial muscle targets your space you pay strict attention. When its new car is as well received as the original LS400 was you call in the generals and reserve the biggest board room in the building and meet very often and re-define your strategy for a long-term war. And you copy some of the things that make them sucessful. As the company gets stronger as Lexus did you make moves like MB did when it was forced to drop prices as it did with the S-Class a few years ago. You don't think Lexus had something to do with that? Do you think MB was being charitable? Stop living in fantasyland about these cars.

    This is business - not bragging rights. It's very obvious that cars improve over time but MB had to do more than it would have if Lexus wasn't there plus it had to drop prices. It will have to answer the raised bar that the LS430 put up pretty soon or it will lose its leadership. As for Lexus it's pretty obvious what its next chess move will be. An LS500 with better handling - probably right at the level of MB - and of course a better ride still and probably even quieter if that's possible. They'll be a V-12 LS600 option as well of course. And given MB's problematic acquisition of Chrysler, turmoil at the top of the company, and success of the LS430 that move will now happen at an earlier time than was planned a year ago. And you know what its better for both you and I because the competitive level keeps increasing. As I said its business.
  • arcoatesarcoates Posts: 221
    I don't dispute that the LS400 had a huge impact on the industry. But only in the area that it was an alternative to the traditional luxury cars from America and Europe. The only revolutionary thing it did was to be able to be priced thousands less than the originals.

    Therefore, it forced, like you said, the originals to drop their prices to be competitive. So in turn, it made the super luxury car more affordable for you and I.

    But I dispute that MB would've had to cut prices sooner or later even if the LS didn't come along. Look at Bentley and Rolls-Royce- they haven't had to cut prices at all, and they are still successful. Granted, they only cater to a very small percent of the population, but those few could go to cars like BMW and Mercedes, but they still go to Bentley and Rolls.

    People credit Lexus for being a revolutionary company, when all along the originals were making huge advances in the auto world which would eventually be passed down to the lesser models.

    Do you think that if the Japanese cars had never come along, that we would be living in the dark ages with no remote keyless entry and navigation systems? No, we would be in the same place. It was the MB S500 that pioneered the active cruise control, and Cadillac Deville the night vision. Some may see it as stupid, but it will be adopted by other manufacturers.

    Lexus does not deserve a medal for coming to the market. It deserves no credit except as a poor mans S-class.

    A.R.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,687
    I'm in business and fighting off an upstart to my position right now. I know very well what it means when a company like Toyota is setting its sights on me. You've got to be kidding if you think Lexus was after the American companies. It didn't need a premium brand for that. Make no mistake that it's going after MB's spot. It made that very clear with its original v-8 which forced both MB and BMW to make more cars with that size engine. This is only round 2 and Lexus is gaining fast. Round three when Lexus makes the moves I noted in my last post will be very interesting.
  • wbwynnwbwynn Posts: 246
    No further questions, your honor!! They just don't get it...do they.
  • wbwynnwbwynn Posts: 246
    I don't think you are an idiot, BUT I am not a poor man by any means...I do my homework seriously...I've owned the Bimmers and MBs.....(the BMW was a cool car)

    Guess what...I just bought an LS430 today because it makes you European heritage freaks look silly and damn stupid.

    Isn't this fun...bring it on....
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,687
    I'm not a poor man either. And people who know me know that I'm not cheap - so there is something seriously wrong with your picture.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Interesting. You say that Mercedes will have to answer to the LS430 or loose it's leadership. You must have forgotten the Mercedes already has 2 cars that head and shoulders above the LS430. They are called the S55 and S600. The LS430 isn't close. I agree Lexus did force all luxury car makers to re-examine the way the price and sell cars. But design wise Lexus didn't do squat. No amount of copying and price cuts from Toyota's thought up brand could ever undue the accoplishments of Mercedes-Benz. I seriously doubt there will ever be a LS600, an LS500 I can see them doing. And it still won't be up to the level of the S600 or the current 750iL, not to mention the next generation 7-Series. Mercedes-Benz did not aquire Chrysler, so Chrylser's current position has very little to do with Mercedes' cars. The parent company bought Chrysler, not Mercedes-Benz itself. You're right it's all business, but don't please don't act like Lexus changed any and everything since it's introduction, a Mercedes was a great cars, years, and years before Lexus was ever thought up. Lexus fans always try to make it seem like Mercedes built junk until Lexus came along. Not so.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    The LS430 is a good car, it has almost all the S-Class features for less money, but the styling and the driving is still not Mercedes-Benz. I have to give it to them though, Acura and Infiniti look pitiful next to their Japanese competitor.

    M
  • 4426444264 Posts: 67
    Does Lexus have anything in the same league as a M5 or E55, a high end performance sports sedan? I think not.

    I would pick an Audi, BMW, MB over a Lexus anyday for their superior driving dynamics.

    Even if I were driven by someone sitting at the back, I rather pick a long wheel base limo over a Lexus, the latter's suspension is so soft it makes me car sick. With a limo, at least I get more room.

    Don't believe everything you hear - Lexus are not that reliable, their leather seats wear off prematurely for example.

    The LS' drive is so isloated it's dangerous giving the driver zero feedback. Sure the car is quiet but that's about the only virtue really.

    I like the GS430's drive but it's lack of room is pathetic, I think a 3 series has more room than the GS.
  • bwhbwh Posts: 76
    To say that Lexus forced MB to change the S class is a bit far fetched. So the original LS400 introduced in '90 caused MB to alter the W140 S class?? That is simply incorrect. The W140 was basically written in stone design wise when the LS was introduced. The S offered 4,5,and 6 liter engines. I did not see big price drops during the cars '92-'99 production. The S500 stayed near $100k and the S600 at $140k, all along offering more features than Lexus imagined. I agree on the LS500,LS600 it will never happen. Even if it does I don't think they will offer a legitimate performance alternative to either the top BMW or MB. I would see a move like that as more catch-up by Lexus. I do think they are fine machines, I do think they are very well put together. I also know that MB uses superior materials in their cars. The paint and leather in my MB far exceeds that of even my wifes 750. I would take either in the long run over the Lexus. My opinion is that the current S-class leads the pack, the new 7 series will be a close second (the 750 is awesome but an S600..ooohh baby!) and Lexus will continue to play catch-up. Since when have they been the innovators in this class. The Japanese are suberb copy-cats, and that to me is the sincerest form of flattery towards BMW and MB.
  • I bought a 2001 S500 not because of heritage, snob appeal, or because it was first with active cruise control. I didn't avoid the Lexus because of its "lack" of prestige, nor did I buy it because it was a good value (even if I think it's ugly).......
    I bought the Mercedes because I LIKE it better. It's impossible to exactly define if it's the ride, handling, styling, engineering features,,etc. that makes a difference. It's really a combination of many factors (although riding in an ugly luxury car might be embarassing).
    Only kidding.
  • The LS 430 one of the world's finest cars is the industry benchmark for fit and finish, realibility and quality standards and best of all it comes from those quality gurus and fanatics the Japanese. Design is always subjective, I think the second generation LS 400 is more classic which will age better than the current one.

    As for some of the snobs on this site who say that Lexus is lagging that's pure frustration and envy since they know Lexus makes a fine product but it doesn't come from Germany.

    Don't ever second guess what Toyota will or won't do. They have Bill Gates deep pockets and talented engineers and can easily elevate the LS model to an even more lofty status than the current one. I foresee an LS500 model in the next few years just give it time. Perfection doesn't come over night. Performance additions as in 400+ hp to the GS series are in the works as we speak so don't think Lexus is sitting idle and watching its competitors cruise by.

    I get a kick out of listening to these Euro lovers defend their cars, but when I ask why Mercedes has all these realibility and quality problems lately they can't answer me or they say "yeah but it has heritage and a soul". When Joe Blow's Benz is in the shop for the 15th time in a year I'm pretty sure he's thinking yeah but it's ok it's got a soul. Bringing up Bill Gates, yes he loves his LS 400 and SC400 coupe has stated they are among his favorite cars. Not bad advertising I"ll say.
  • say "Amen"...!!
  • arcoatesarcoates Posts: 221
    LJFLX- You may forget that Cadillac was once the "Standard of the World". The words "the cadillac of..." are still used everyday to describe the best. So don't give me this bull that Lexus wasn't thinking about the American cars. The Deville DTS is a better car in my opinon that the LS430.

    WBWYNN- You must own cars for their curb appeal. If you are a person who actually cares about driving dynamics, you would have never purchased an LS430 because it simply cannot compete with the euros. You say that euro heritage is silly- the only reason the euros come out on top is because of their heritage- they have worked for years on perfecting their cars. Lexus came along, took the best of what MB had, and then tried to copy it. Congrats on buying your Lexus, but you could've got the same performance in a DTS for less money!

    PRATTSTER- I think you must be mistaken, because Mercedes have the reputation of being rock solid, which will last for years. I don't know a single person who owns an MB who has had to take their car in for signifigant service. And no, they are not C-Class owners, but E55 and S-Class owners. So don't critisize MB for being engineered poorly, when Lexus is just copying them. They must be doing something right!

    I have not heard any hard evidence that Lexus is at or above MB and BMW's level. Only a lot of mud slinging towards me, and my correct points.

    A.R.

    P.S. I look forward to the attacks I get this time!
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Can you post a link to the article you are quoting and then delete your post?

    Either way, your post has to go - you can't quote copyrighted sources directly but you can link to them.

    Thanks.

    Pat
    Host
    Sedans and Women's Auto Center Message Boards
  • wbwynnwbwynn Posts: 246
    A low blow indeed....you've got to be kidding...do you actually drive any of these vehicles...from whence does this kind of expertise come?
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