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High End Luxury Cars



  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Wow...your and SL owner too! The R129.......the tank.

    I think you and ljflx misunderstood what I meant by that statement about the Camry/LS/ES. What I meant is that they are similar in theme, not actual execution. Meaning that from the top of the Toyota line to the bottom they make great appliances, reliable etc, but they're designs (exterior, interior) control layout, etc are the same. A LS430 really doesn't say anymore outwardly than an Avalon does, though it might ride 10 times better and is much quieter. This doesn't detract away from what the LS430 can do and how it does it for most, but for me it does to a degree. What I'm saying there is nothing aesthetically to get excited about. There's no true "design" or appeal to a Lexus for me. The only ones I even remotely like are the SC430 and surprise, surprise the GX470. I know how "great" the car is, based on yours or ljflx's criteria.

    jamesfletcher2.........Nope I don't know anyone with a current generation S600. There are a few S600 (and other high-end Benz owners) on the News and Views boards. Look into some of topics, which might pertain to Mercedes.


    About that haunted house, I'd be curious to see what's really up with

  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    I almost had a heart attack just now. You like the GX470???? You amaze me - my friend. By the way it's a fabulous SUV.

    Haunted houses - Ever since I read the exorcist I want no part of the horror scene.

    I like the functional layout that is similar in design. I look for Toyotas when I am on the road so that I know where most functional controls are. I had a horrible experience looking for the windshield wiper control on a Taurus one time in a Florida deluge on I-95.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Well...I went with my parent's neighbor to get her ES330 serviced and while there her salesman (she's bought 3 ES' from him now) talked her into taking a GX470 out for a drive. She had some trouble getting the ES330 up her driveway a couple of times. Whoever removed her snow did a half-__ job of it and the remaining layer turned to glare ice, not the car's fault. On my parents block they have those steep driveways with that large dip where the driveway meets the street. Anyway she liked everything about it except for the size. I have to admit I did like it as much as I could like an SUV I guess. I still like the Touareg better, mainly due to its more manageable size and Euro interior. But the Lex is a good truck nevertheless.

  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
  • w210w210 Posts: 188
    For the high end performance luxury sedan category, Lexus is not in the league.

    I looked into the RS6, M5, E55, XJR and picked the E55 for performance and resale value.

    Will be interesting to see how the new M5 will do. Have you guys seen the new GS? I was rather disappointed. Too bad Lexus is not in the game for some healthy competition.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    What did you think of the RS6? I can't tell you how much I like the ultimate version of one of my all-time favorite sedans...the A6.

    BTW, the new A6 debuts today!

  • mfullmermfullmer Posts: 819
    The Lexus LS430 does not even is not even in the same class as the cars you mentioned. Those are [emphasis on] performance luxury vehicles. The LS430 is a Luxury vehicle that competes with the S-Class, 7 Series, XJ8, and the A8.

    Now the GS - see my post below and you'll see that is the one that competes with the vehicles you were talking about.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    The GS does compete with the regular versions of the E, 5, A6 etc, but there is no Lexus to compete with the M5, E55, RS6 or XJR. I think that is what he was saying.

  • mfullmermfullmer Posts: 819
    Well, it's finally official, I purchased my LS430 Ultra Luxury, Moonlight Pearl/Ecru on Saturday!

    But I'm not driving it yet, it's supposed to be in the states on 2/28 and at my dealer on 3/4. I had to turn in my Cadillac STS (I leased it) by Sunday (GM was totally terrible about my turn in - when they found out I wasn't getting a new GM car, they were going to charge me $24/day past the 15th!!!!!)

    I went ahead and did all of the paperwork for the new Lex and they put me an '04 GS300. Now granted, I'm not a "Performance Luxury" kind of guy - I like my Luxury pure and simple. The GS is a great driving car, I'm just glad I don't have to live with it long term. It is solid as a rock and even a bit fun :-O ! Why, oh why, though would you only get steering wheel stereo controls on the 430 and not the 300????? Come on, Lexus, they came standard on my $45k Tahoe LT and you can't get them - for any price - on the GS300 at $42k??????

    Oh well, like I said, it is a courtesy car and I don't have to live with it for long.
  • 92735i92735i Posts: 25
    I have been in the market for a new car and have driven many fine automobiles.

    Audi A6 V8
    Audi A8L
    MB S500
    MB S55
    BMW 740i Sport Package 2001
    BMW 745i
    LS 430

    I was completely disappointed with the ride quality of the Q45, and yes, MB S500.

    The Audi A6 with V8 engine handled like a porsche, too rough for Chicago roads.

    A8L nice cabin, yawn.
    Lexus, yawn.
    S55, same as S500 but with more power. Road noise in a $100k car? fugedaboudit.

    The 2001 740i with Sport Package handled very close to the Audi A6, I drove it right after. I was amazed at the performance and handling of such a large car.

    As a result, my anticipation for the 745i test drive was peaked. There is no question the 745i is superior. Smooth while in city traffic, great acceleration, unbelievable handling, not bad on gas either.

    Mine has arrived in S. Carolina, waiting to arrive at dealer.

    I notice all the posts on the Lexus, it seems to me that there is a good amount of rationalization for buying down to the LS.

    People buy cars for different reasons, no one reason or rationale is superior to the other. To compare cars that are designed for completely different markets, ie LS430 and BMW 7, accomplishes little.

    I went out searching for the best driving experience, period. Value was a second consideration. I drove cars $30k-$40k more, and less than the BMW 7. The 7 was the last car I drove.

    For the total driving experience, as I like to experience it, it is far superior than any Japanese or comparable German car.
  • mfullmermfullmer Posts: 819
    First, people who buy and love the LS430 need not "rationalize" anything. They are going with what they, the Auto Media, the Consumer Media, and the main stream Media consider to be the "Best Luxury Vehicle made".

    Second, why is choosing a vehicle that happens to be the least expensive "Buying Down"???

    Using that sort of thinking (which I am loathe to do), a BMW 745i buyer would be "Buying Down" also as it's price is $700 under the MSRP of $70,079 for my LS430.

    And someone who goes in to Starbucks to get their favorite coffee are "Buying Down" by getting their choice of brewed coffee instead of the espresso based coffees? After all, he's getting something that costs three times less than the "Latte".

    It's snobbish and condescending remarks like that, 92735i, that further prove the mind-set of "European Mark Only" folks, and in particular, "BMW Only" folks.

    It also proves my ongoing point that "European Mark Only" folks are FOR THE MOST PART interested mainly in having a vehicle for show factor.

    I'm sure mine is the first post of many you'll get in response to that obnoxious statement.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Please let the record note that neither me nor Mercedes-Benz had anything to with

  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    I think you're being a little too sensitive.

    92735i said... "People buy cars for different reasons, no one reason or rationale is superior to the other." I think he's acknowledging people's prerogatives here.

    His “buying down” comment obviously refers to the difference in base price of 745 vs LS430. It is 14 grand after all.

    It’s clear he wants the great BMW ride. You want other things. No big deal as far as I can see.
  • mfullmermfullmer Posts: 819
    So noted Merc1 and, although we may not see eye-to-eye on a few things, "snobbish" or "condescending" never enter my mind regarding you.

    Designman, yes, I saw what he said about different reasons, etc. The simple fact is that was a very condescending comment. If he really wanted to point out the price difference between the base versions of the vehicles, there would be no need to speak about "rationalizations". Who would need to "rationalize" buying something they like that happens to costs "$14,000 less" than something they don't like?

    There is no defense for that remark - Snobbery and condescention about vehicles is totally wrong, especially when you say later that "no one reason or rationale is superior...". There is no such thing as "Buying down" if you do not "LOOK down" on people who do not spend as much as other people do on material items. Frankly, I was mostly disgusted at the unveiled comment.

    The true [BMW] colors shown through loud and clear.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    A 745 lease on a car that stickers around $77k is $75 cheaper per month than a $70K Lexus LS430 ultra lease where I live and it's $350 cheaper than an S500. So forget the buying down nonsense around here. They can't give away the 7-series. The LS and S sell very well and the A8 is non-existant.

    merc1 - Did that GX have the nav and ML package?

    Mfullmer - on this one I am in total agreement with you. Justification of purpose maybe? Who cares, anyway. I wouldn't take the 7series if it was $250 cheaper than an LS. Actually I wouldn't take it at any price. It's not what I want and it's not dependable.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Sorry, I don't see the condescension. I see a guy who drove a bunch of cars, likes the BMW, and believes it is better because it rides better regardless of the problems. There ARE people out there who are willing to put up with a lot to have that ride. Also, it's a breath of fresh air to hear somebody talk about something other than MB and Lexus around here. Personally, I do like the Lexus, but I also like hearing what others like about THEIR cars. There's been nothing from 7-series owners in this thread. Welcome it.

    BTW, congrats on your new Lexus!
  • mfullmermfullmer Posts: 819
    I also like to hear from all people who have "High End Luxury Marques". My only problem was the "Buying Down" remark as it is solely an elitist remark and, unfortunately discounted everything else he said. Not all people are as sensitive to that as I am, I understand.

    I personally would like to see more posts from people about:

    Aston Martin
    Jaguar (although there have been a few)

    Where is everyone?
  • 92735i92735i Posts: 25 about being sensitive and defensive.

    Those of you who take exception to my post are focused on the "buying down" phraseology, rather than the whole message.

    It appears we have some ruffled feathers eh? What does this reaction indicate? You know what they say about truth!

    I think it is you guys that are snobs, elitists, and...what was the other word?...condenscending?
    By your reaction.

    Reread your posts in reaction to my post. Then reread my original post. Your emotional responses contribute nothing to this discussion.

    You have the right to purchase your best car based on YOUR criteria. It is you, based on your responses, that criticize the 7, criticize BMW, and, criticize me.

    Who are the snobs here?

    I dont care what car people buy, apparently you do.

    I just hope that one day, we meet at a stop light, and you're in a hurry. We'll see the impact of....yes...buying DOWN!!!!
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    I don't really care about it at all. I thought your post was a good one but what did you mean by buying down and what was the point of using that term. If you applied that term to the housing market it would mean a lesser home or a lesser or equal home in a less desirable area. Good post overall - bad choice of words. That's how it reads to me. Plus I'm not kidding about the lease prices - the loaded LS is more per month than the 7-series here even though it has a 10% lower MSRP. So the buydown doesn't work and is inaccurate for me anyway.
  • mfullmermfullmer Posts: 819
    I sure hope you haven't "bought down" on you insurance when you wrap that pretty little BMW around a pole because of your sophomoric need to show off.
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