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High End Luxury Cars

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  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Hey folks, let's not get personal -- we need to stick to the cars and not insult one another.

    Thanks.
  • "I just hope that one day, we meet at a stop light, and you're in a hurry. We'll see the impact of....yes...buying DOWN!!!!"

    If your implying the 745i will blow away the 04' LS with the new 6spd at a stop light I think you'll be mistaken.
  • sv7887sv7887 Posts: 351
    Hello All,
      My my...How things change in this forum..I must admit I can see Mfuller's point. I don't see how choosing a 745i over a LS430 is "Buying down" As far as I'm concerned, when someone makes comments about my Lexus cars I challenge them to find a better experience. I proudly point to my 1992 LS400 which had $3 (That's right THREE dollars) in non scheduled maintenance issues over 11 yrs. Still can hear a pindrop with the engine running.

    I've complained before that these cars are overdoing it on the horsepower. The 250 HP on my 92 LS is more than enough. The 290 HP on my LS430 is tempting me to engage in some foolishness. Where exactly are we going to use it? I don't think it's worth the ticket from the good old State Police. What is it with the questions about Lexus buyers? I'll state the reasons why I've bought 3 and will continue to do so:

    1) Quality, Quality, Quality. Nice to have a pretty car, but what's the point if it spends time in the shop. Time is money. Never been stranded my any of the LS cars, Ever.

    2) Service: You sneeze in a Lexus dealer and they'll wipe your nose for you. Okay a little exaggerated...But they've handled the insurance company wonderfully on my 1992 LS. All OEM parts, and brought the loaner car to my house and let me have it for 11 days, and for the repeated visits afterward.

    3) Price. After paying $67K in 9/02 I was starting to wonder whether this car was the value it once was. I paid $43K in 9/92 for my LS. But if you look at the competition, I can see why they're a winner. I drove the S-Class, BMW, and Jaguar. They're all nice cars, but I couldn't justify the price premium in my mind. We're all reasonably well off here, but I'm sure we know the value of a dollar.

    4)Resale:
      Never had an issue trying to sell one. In a fit of rage, I put my 92 for sale a few weeks ago. I had 4 calls immediately. They were even willing to pay full purchase price. The Lexus mechanic told me I was crazy to sell such a nice car, and I recovered my senses and held on to it.

    I realize paying more money is supposed to imply prestige or god knows what. Keep in mind paying a premium doesn't always imply better quality or what not. A $10 Casio Quartz watch will likely be more reliable than a traditional geared Rolex. (No joke, I assure you. Rolex even charges you an extra $1,000 for "Advanced Quartz technology") Why the price disparity? Simple, we all put a premium on fashion, uniqueness, prestige..You are all entitled to do what you want with your money, but don't criticize the informed Lexus buyer who puts a premium on piece of mind rather than Autobahn rated performance.

    BTW, Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer are proud owners of LS430's. I don't think they're "Buying down"

    SV
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    per your link - If I only had one Lexus vehicle I'd only be in the shop 2 times a year (maybe 3 times in year one because they do a quick 1k mile check). I go 8-10k miles between visits. But Lexus is very much like MB in that you will tend to buy your second car as a Lexus as well. Thus your service visits double. The service they give you is phenomenal (at least in all my experience) so you remember it very well. One time when they screwed up on a loaner car for my wife they actually drove her home in a stretch limo and then picked her up. They also told to have the driver take her wherever she wanted to go. That is not service you forget. I've never had a car in for anything but maintenance in 9 years. But with 3 vehicles I am in there about 5x a year.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    The 745i is an inferior car than an LS430 for more money. The quintessential definition of "BUYING" "DOWN".

    =)
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    ...but, by what measure is the 745i an inferior car?

    If you mean which one will most likely cost the least in money and aggrivation, you're right, it's probably the Lexus. However, if you're standard unit of measure is which one is more capable at speed, or which one can get around a closed circut the fastest, then the Lexus ain't got nuthin' on the 745i.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    The GX470...yes it was loaded, had everything on it.

    Yes...I'm also aware of Lexus' service practices.

    sv7887,

    That's what I'm talking about, running under that assumption that nobody else has ever had a good experience with anything other than a Lexus. It's getting tired and a little ridiculous.

    On the LS board there are posts about problems, just like any other cars. YES, they are less frequent than other brands, but they are there.

    Now tell me on an 11 year old car, are you counting all the things that any car will need to have done in that time frame, as "maintenance" instead of repairs. Your post reads like a Lexus will never, ever have anything to wear out and eventually need "attention". Its funny how on other boards people with Lexus' of that vintage have to have anywhere from $2500-3500 worth of work done on their cars for various things.

    M
  • Folks, let's move on. Unless, of course, we don't have anything else to offer? If that's the case, then I suggest we take a break for a while and post when we have something more substantive to contribute.

    Any one know when Bentley will release the new color offerings for the '05 GTs expected late this year?
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I can't help with the Bentley question, but I can suggest a new direction.

    There was a new Audi A6 shown today. You can see it at Germancarfans dot com and the carconnection dot com. I'm not nearly as impressed with it as I was the A8 upon it's introduction.

    I still didn't get much from anyone here on th Maserati Quattroporte??

    Comments on either?

    M
  • pablo_lpablo_l Posts: 491
    The Maserati is and will remain an exotic, just like the Bentley. All the brands mentioned in this thread are larger volume mainstream ones.

    Some would claim that the definition of true luxury is utter scarcity: a Rolex is a mass watch -though perceived as a precious luxury good by a wide section of the population-, a Parmigiani or Vacheron Constantine or Audemars Piguet a different matter.

    To a certain degree, it entertains me to see how much passion some have riding on what at the end of the day are all quite utilitarian sedan drives. I thought only sportscar fans felt that pasisonate about their cars. Then again, I notice a lot of passion in here is about brands rather than cars, which seems somewhat odd, but at the end of the day just a manifestation of the the-brands-I-advertise-are-part-of-my-individual-identity-and-exp- ression mentality in modern life which some Calvin&Hobbes cartoon so brilliantly mocks.

    I like the Maserati a lot it has some of the less utilitarian appeal the old Jag XJ model used to have, sacrificing some function for emotion. Perhaps it's just the fact it's the utter oddball brand in the US these days. With the Bentley, actually much prefer the old Continental to the new one. The new one is a great car, no doubt, but the old one is a true classic with enormous character and an immense presence the new car lacks (but might develop in 30 years or so if they corageously stick to the same model :).
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Try as I might, and I've seen the car 3 times now, I just can't like the new Bentley Continental GT. It looks like it should say "Timberland" on the hood instead of "Bentley".

    M
  • Merc1: Please, please, please, cut the car some slack! :-) I know you see a big shoe when you look at the GT, but I'm getting ready to place my order after having waited for over a year. I need a little empathy here, fella.

    I know that you "calls 'em as you sees 'em," but say something nice, please. I need a little boost. "Timberland?" Really? Help me out here; be kind.

    I need to hear from a new owner. There should be at least one of you out there from the European market where the GT has already been released. First ones should be getting here soon, so you closet new purchasers need to stand up and be counted!!!
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    There is plenty to say about that thing....kidding.

    Seriously, I'm impressed with the car overall, but styling is my main draw to a car in the first place. It's hard for me to get into what a car will do, how well it's made, who makes it, etc if it doesn't look good.

    That said, the Bentley Continental GT is still an awesome car, far as I can tell. It has the engine, interior and prescence that make a Bentley a Bentley. Bentleys are about hand craftsmanship and brutal power. This car has that. Only the styling is off, and remember imo.

    I'm not sure if I like the fact that it shares so much with the VW Phaeton, being awd an all, but thats the only way you'll get a Bentley for under 200K.

    If you like it, I love it. Place that order!

    M
  • Thank you, Merc1, for letting me down gently. You have such a nice way of saying "if you're crazy enough to buy that ugly !@?$ car, then go right ahead." (Just kidding too).

    I understand your view and, to be perfectly honest with myself, I see the overbulking too. It's just that I have waited so long to see if Lexus would ever re-establish its own look with the LS, and continue to be disappointed. I have a '92 LS400 and was heart-broken when they began the march toward styling the rear toward MB. Every year I hoped against hope for a return to the low, sleek, feline curves of the original, and every year I was pained anew.

    The GT reminds me of the smooth curves of the early LS, albeit way too muscular.

    Truth be told, I forced myself back to a Lexus dealer last week and tried, really tried, to connect with the 430 -- I just couldn't do it. If I wanted a MB, I would simply buy one (having already done so for my wife). I know the ride would be great in the LS430 -- no question there. The dealer was a bit puzzled as to why I didn't want to drive it. I told him that my block was the boxed S design presentation and color choices. Not very logical stuff, I realize, but very significant aesthetically to me.

    So, I guess I've decided to live in a shoe for a little while rather than a box -- at least until we see what the 2007 LS looks like!
  • sv7887sv7887 Posts: 351
    Merc,
      I can understand your pain as you've not had a taste of the Lexus experience. (Come to the dark side! LOL!) I've owned practically everything in the Luxury car segment with the exception of a BMW. Yes, these cars are REALLY that good. If you've owned three LS cars like I have, you'd probably say the same thing.

    The 1992 LS in question was bought new. I've spent maybe $3,000 in all those scheduled maintenance issues (5K to 91K) services. The car has always started on the first turn of the key, and never has had any mechanical issues. I've been limited to replacement of a couple of light bulbs totaling $3. Ah, yes, I had the rear shocks replaced b/c the floaty Lexus ride was too much for me. Total cost $325 at a Lexus dealer. (That was an elective procedure).

    The car was recently hit (Left Front Side) at 35 MPH by an idiot driver running a red light. Repairs totaled $7,500. So I can only attest to the first 11 years, as any data now will be skewed.

    Keep in mind I am the original owner of my 1992. Most of those cars you read about are on their third or fourth owner. Relevance? They probably are cutting corners on maintenance. (as is the case with most lux cars that age) I find it irritating people seem to think they can service these cars at Jiffy Lube or the local gas station..They then complain when something breaks due to lack of scheduled maintenance.

    Lexus focuses on Preventative maintenance, so I can see why I've had such little issues with the car. Of course I've had brake pads replaced, but again nothing than the normal deal. I'm sure someone can provide the numbers and confirm my suspicion that a LS car will have lower down time and cheaper repair costs Long term.

    I can understand your feelings. I've owned MB cars (1988 300 SE), a Jag XJ6, and a Lincoln in the past. I buy cars in cash and for the long term. Like most educated consumers out there I want the best experience for the money. It's what made me switch from MB. I didn't feel the product justified the price premium. It's a matter of opinion.

    Good debating with you as always,
    SV
  • jstylejstyle Posts: 129
    Exterior isn't all that nice but look at that old style BMW interior...Wow a drivers cockpit again!!!

    http://www.germancarfans.com/printablenews.cfm/newsid/2040216.005
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    I actually like the exterior better than current car. But I just don't like the Audi corporate grill.
  • carnaughtcarnaught Posts: 1,569
    Not sure either about the front grill however.
  • pablo_lpablo_l Posts: 491
    The design, especially of the interior, looks a bit Japanese standard edition to me. Nowhere near enough of the usual Audi sharp elegance. The high grill is very clumsy, it makes the design look aged. The classic inverted U shape is not classic Audi, it's more classic NSU of the 1930s, which Audi acquired sometime in the early 70s.
  • I seriously contemplated the Bentley..Contacted dealer, and really like the car..I like the design, and with past experience with a Jag, know the interior will be like no other.

    Shortly ofter the above, I went to Miami, and the hotel attendants parked car,and other services. It is quite crowded there, and one really needs to know where one is going..I decided against this type (expensive) of car, as I would not be comfortable with the thought of it getting dinged or scraped..It is enough thought with the two year old Lexus(newness has warn off). If I had a garage, and used the car sparingly it would be a different story..Right now thankfully the winter is going to turn into spring, and the sap will cover the car..I am sure you will enjoy the Continental...Tony
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