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High End Luxury Cars

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  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    Don't worry, dude, you're even funnier!!

    How do I have access to soo many cars? I have friends/relatives/co-workers who have many different types. I have many enthusiast nuts.

    One friend of mine has had a 97/98 Z3 2.8 that he modified w:lightweight flywheel, exhaust, beefed up trans./18"Breyton wheels, Brembo brakes. Same guy later had 00 BMW 530i sport w/manual.
    before that VW Jetta VR6. Currently, has a Volvo S60R. I have driven all of them as he leases and doesn't really care how it's driven.

    ANother had the current gen. A4 Sport 6-speed for about 6 months, before that a MB C280(driven both).

    One relative has a stable of Lexi' 95 ES, 00 LS400,

    Father in law has a current gen. LS430, as well as a Benz ML320

    Other relative has a previous gen. 7-series.

    Otherwise, a friend works at Lexus NA in NJ. Been to ride and drive event with him in NJ where they Lexus products as well as competition. Driven them on a racetrack, slalom, wet braking, dirt braking, acceleration.

    Sorry, I have better things to do than waste salespeople's time, even though when I do it is quite fun to waste their time and listen to them hype their products up. you know how it is, bump up the horsepower numbers, make the car faster in 0-60time, etc.

    "How many times have you had your honda appraised? Only reason that I ask is that I'm in the industry on the retail end and I'm in and out of dealers everyday and attend manufacturers events often."

    WHat does that have to do with my car? But yes I've had it appraised. Thought about purchasing a Acura TSX last year but it sucked.
  • audibobaudibob Posts: 33
    We are back to the "I want to be and owner, but just heard from the thousands of friends/relatives who own them" club.

    Yea, right.
  • Bob:

    I am not so selfish as to think there may be someone who would like to see the Numbers....It doesn't seem there is anyone here who would actually want to buy one. Certainly not at sticker.

    But, I could be wrong.
  • audibobaudibob Posts: 33
    "Thought about purchasing a Acura TSX last year but it sucked. "

    Yep. I agree with you.
  • mbukukanyaumbukukanyau Posts: 200
    Even Cadillac has better value than Audi, just look at 2003 CTS Vs. A4 used Values.

    TSX=Accord with leather & Navigation
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    Where do you come up with B.S. from?

    True cost to own for 2004 year cars:

    LS430: 67K
    745i: 76K
    S430: 81K
    E500: 65K

    And your precious A8 isn't even on the list because not enough are sold to gather information on.

    Please go on with Audi's selling at MSRP!
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    Kinda similar to yourself hoping to be a owner? If you click your heels and really really wish, maybe one day you will be able to own a fine Audi yourself.

    BTW, since you supposedly have soo many used Lexus on the lot, try taking off a front fender and see if it has styrofoam in it. I bet you you know it really doesn't but you're just dying for attention or are extremely bored because you haven't sold a Audi in days because nobody is willing to pay MSRP for one.
  • audibobaudibob Posts: 33
    My Audi is a A4 6Cyl
    WAUDD28D2WA157053
    Texas Plate
    B86KSL

    Look these up if you can and you will have me and my car.
  • footiefootie Posts: 636
    Dear AudioBob,

    This post isn't necessarily all that auto related, but it does help clarify whether windows and other commercial grade OS's are in use by the military, which was a point of discussion earlier.

    I would conclude that your assertion that this technology wasn't used by the government is just plain wrong.

    It looks like the University of Texas (right there in your backyard) has helped develop very important technology for Mine Detection for the Navy. It's based on one of their standard platforms - which is the industry standard pc-104 stackable card format.

    This recent SBIR soliticitations is seeking software for deployment on a PC104 platform using Windows.

    You might learn more at the winsystems.com website. They provide modules and software for every environment for pc104: DOS, windows, linux etc.

    N04-207   TITLE: Multi aspect sonar classification for High Resolution Broadband Sonar (HRBS)

    TECHNOLOGY AREAS: Sensors, Battlespace

    ACQUISITION PROGRAM: PEO(LMW);  Explosive Ordnance Disposal Program Office, PMS-EOD

    OBJECTIVE: Develop improved Multi Aspect Classification Processing (MADC) algorithms for advanced bottom and buried mine target detection and classification.

    DESCRIPTION:  MADC processing is a biologically inspired approach to mine detection and classification based on years of Office of Naval Research (ONR) and Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) funded research in the study of Dolphin (Tursiops truncatus) biological sonar (biosonar) and associated Fleet system development. DARPA recently funded a Dolphin Based Sonar (DBS) development effort, which designed wideband (80kHz) sonar that incorporates biologically based transmitter and receiver elements and image generation capability. This system was designed and developed during the 1999 – 2002 fiscal years and was tested at Applied research Laboratory, University of Texas (ARL-UT) Lake Travis test site and in San Diego bay.  Target sets detected consisted of eight Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI) certified mine simulators at ARL-UT and mine simulators with associated bottom clutter objects in San Diego bay. Approximately 50,000 sq. meters of B-2 bottom type data were ensonified using the DBS in a manner similar to Unmanned Undersea Vehicle (UUV) search patterns. A rich data set was collected.  The DBS signal processing was successful in demonstrating basic functionally of an initial multi aspect detection and classification processing scheme applied to the San Diego bay data.  The multi aspect detection and classification approach showed great promise.  ONR has since funded efforts to advance portions of the approach for transition to existing/planned UUV platforms.

    Further efforts are required to refine the MADC process for incorporation into UUV sonar sensors.  Development of Code, which must run on standard UUV computer architecture (PC104+ systems running advanced windows OS) that is compact, fast and provides for:

    1)  Image generation from extracted data ”snippets”, for either acoustic feature based or synthetic aperture type images to aid classification by automated processes or visually recognizable by a sonar operator are needed.

    2)  Classification techniques based on multi aspect returns for and associated feature sets of the mine contact data need to be developed for enhanced classification performance.

    3)  Refined and more fully developed acoustic focusing processes (motion compensation algorithms).
  • mbukukanyaumbukukanyau Posts: 200
    image
    Vs.
    image
    Vs.
    image
    Vs.
    image
    Vs.
    image
    Vs
    image
    Vs
    image
    Vs.
    image

    In this company, no one dominates any car as almost as good as any other. It’s a tough segment to be in. Audi, BMW and Mercedes are no longer Kings here.

    My pick so far from reviews (Cadillac) I have never driven any of them. Why Cadillac?

    BMW handling, Jaguar soft leather, Lexus quite, Cadillac quality and style, American size, peppy smooth, quite Northstar.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    Right now, based on pictures, the M45 is the pick.
  • zodiac2004zodiac2004 Posts: 471
    I found the following TCO info from Edmunds - 5 year projected ownership costs.

    audi A8 $85,447
    lexus LS $70,200
    bmw 745i $79,470
    merc s430 $84,300
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    I found the following information on used car values from Autotrader on actual selling prices for 2001 model year A6 4.2 vs. 2001 LS430.

    2001 LS430
    1)44K miles selling for $37K
    2)49K miles selling for $36K

    2001 A6 4.2 Quattro
    40K miles selling for $29K.

    So, I have come to 2 conclusions:
    1) Audi's do not sell for anywhere near sticker, except for maybe the A8, and specialty products such as the S8, S4, S6.
    2) Used car values for LS430's are higher than A6 4.2s.
  • il_62231il_62231 Posts: 2
    Why not just compare the A6 and GS cost to own and resale?
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    A6 4.2Q 49K MSRP

    Edmunds TMV is $47K(I'm shocked, they are to be discounted)

    Total 5yr. cost of ownership: $61K

    BMW 530i
    MSRP 51K, TMV is $49.5K
    Total 5yr. cost of ownership: $55K.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    Another thing, 2000 LS400s with about 20K to 30K more miles are selling for $1K more than 2000 A6 4.2 Quattros. And remember a 2000 LS400 was cheaper than the average 2001 LS430.

    So yes, the A6's resale value is not the best, in fact the BMW 5-series holds it's value better, so does the E-class, and so does the LS.
  • footiefootie Posts: 636
    I know, but every time I see the MB / Taurus in traffic, I notice the similarity right away. Except for a few details, the newest E isn't remotely like its predecessors.

    To me, the primary things that MB did to differentiate the E from the Taurus was to change the window lines a bit, move the rear door line back to meet the window line, have a straighter, more aggressive window line from the rear to front and of course, add two strips of clear plastic to the tail lights. The gas cap is square and there are some trim differences.

    The nose is more different because it had to accomodate the bubble lights and MB grill.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    Here's another example showing the unparalleled resale value of Audi's:

    2000 A6 2.8Qs
    $26K for one with 40K miles

    $22K for one with 38K miles
    Both are certified at Audi dealers.

    2000 GS300
    $27K for one with 38K miles

    $25K for one with 31K miles

    And let's not forget the 2 probably had similar MSRPs when new. And the GS is considered the lame-o car in the Lexus line-up.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    footie,

    YOu know, I really doubt Mercedes-Benz used the Taurus as inspiration for the E-class. If it does look similar, it is probably coincidental.

    Besides, there are soo many styling cues on soo many different cars that are similar. Basically every mass market car has one line or a couple that look to similar to another cars.
  • pablo_lpablo_l Posts: 491
    The updated S-class gets my vote, which surprises even me. I simply think it flows very well in that pic, but tellingly I can't quite recall what the car looks like from the back, I just have a recollection it is far more anonymous like that.

    The Infiniti looks great, too. It'd be very surprising to find it on my list of final candidates should I be on the market for a car right now, but I ought to point out my Infiniti ownership experience in 96 was rather forgettable.

    The Audi looks good except for that damn dark blob of a grille further accentuated by that chrome frame. Very heavy handed stuff, and if I bought one I'd ask a body shop to lose the chrome and paint the lower portion of the grille in body color.

    The Merc is too conservative for my taste, but that's always been what Mercs have been about in the end with the occasional exception of their upper rate coupes and convertibles.

    I find the new BMW designs utterly unattractive, BMW does not need such desperate attention-getting gimmicks - their cars ought to be more subtle and I think the extrovert design language is not going to benefit them mid-term. The angry insect look is downright infantile, I think. And, as stated before, I think it odd that people tore those light to pieces when they showed up in the Aztec, yet with BMW it's visionary and it'll eventually grow on us. Keep dreaming, Bangle, it's way too busy to age well.

    The Caddillac, as stated by others, is way to angular. It's in the BMW school of desperate attention getters that strive too hard to be different, and wind up looking like a middle-aged guy in Dolce&Gabbana teen-wear (if I ever try to pull that off please somebody shoot me).

    The Lex and the Acure are way too anonymous middle sized sedans. They're the Banana Republic white shirt blue tie and khakis equivalent.
  • mbukukanyaumbukukanyau Posts: 200
    Cadillac sort of needs distinctive styling attention to get back in the game. So the styling is appropriate, they need to get away from the Towncar/newyorker/deville luxury among ruins, land yacht, retired senior, Detroit iron, luxo boat, Rental limo, Vegas stretch limo, hearse, Senator Bob Dole, US ambassador to the UN, cold war America look to the mainstream international styling
  • audibobaudibob Posts: 33
    "
    Here's another example showing the unparalleled resale value of Audi's:

    2000 A6 2.8Qs
    $26K for one with 40K miles

    $22K for one with 38K miles
    Both are certified at Audi dealers.

    2000 GS300
    $27K for one with 38K miles

    $25K for one with 31K miles"

    Where do yo get these?
  • lovemyclklovemyclk Posts: 351
    I must say that the reason Toyota is experiencing such terrific performance is the evolution of the Toyota Production and Toyota Management Systems based upon Lean.

    It is as much cultural/socio-economic as technical... even moreso cultural. These concepts have been fine tuned over the past few decades and are now part of Toyota's DNA.

    For the German's to achieve the level of dominance in quality they desire, there will need to be a culture shift in their Automotive sector. They have brilliant automotive engineers encumbered by management practices that have allowed the JDP, etc. rankings to hurt them.

    You can argue design all day long, but quality is quality. People want to own the finest for their hard-earned dollars/euros. "Finest" can be measured as pure luxury, performance, engineering for the dollar, platform solidity or whatever measure you wish. Nothing is worse than the buyer remorse that accompanies buying into a branded image of your favorite mfgr only to be let down by constant quality glitches (MB!).

    When you take a look at the effect of maintenance costs on the bottom lines of the German marques, it will become apparent that they have much room to improve. A serious cultural transformation will be required before the German marques realize the "ultimate" benefits of their engineering and design prowess.

    Toyota/Lexus has simply perfected this model to suit their corporate mission... note their recent profitability news for FY2003. If only Toyota could align their retail channel experience with the quality of their vehicles as Lexus has accomplished.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Man this place is HOT today! Yeah! Burn that mother down!!!!!!!!!
  • lovemyclklovemyclk Posts: 351
    Actually, the Taurus is the design inspiration for the new Buick LaCrosse! Check it out...
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    Try autotrader or any used car website.

    BTW, if you're such a good salesperson you should know that Audi's go thru Auctions for less than it's competition. Isn't that one of the tools you use to appraise trade-ins(ie. auction guides)?

    Are Audi's still selling at MSRP today?
  • audibobaudibob Posts: 33
    "Message #6259 by maxhonda99 Jul 21, 2004 (4:24 pm)
    Here's another example showing the unparalleled resale value of Audi's: 2000 A6 2.8Qs $26K for ...
     
     Message #6257 Used car value by maxhonda99 Jul 21, 2004 (4:13 pm)
    Another thing, 2000 LS400s with about 20K to 30K more miles are selling for $1K more than 2000 A6 ..."

    "Try autotrader or any used car website.

    BTW, if you're such a good salesperson you should know that Audi's go thru Auctions for less than it's competition. Isn't that one of the tools you use to appraise trade-ins(ie. auction guides)?

    Are Audi's still selling at MSRP today? "

    Once more...you have stated numbers I can't verifiy. Where did you get those numbers???? Those specifically.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,902
    Don't forget tonight's member-to-member chat - it's open mic night, so come and discuss whatever's on your mind.

    image

    http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/townhallchat.html

    6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET. Drop by for live chat with other members. Hope you can join us!

    kirstie_h
    Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host

    MODERATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • warthogwarthog Posts: 216
    You must not have read many of the posts. The Lexus point of view is that the car's reliability, ride, comfort and appointments qualify it for the category. Seems to me they're right. The real fuss, ad nauseum, is whether it's better to have handling and performance (BMW) or style/status (MB) or the Lexus qualities. To date, no minds have been changed.
  • Warthog:

    Well..... the audi guy is starting to convince me....
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