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High End Luxury Cars



  • ksurgksurg Posts: 48
    I'm confused because they just made major changes to the idrive with the '04 model. As for the seats.. for god's sake if a person can't figure them out then they probably shouldn't be driving. All kidding aside they're not that complicated. I agree that they might change some of the exterior styling. Lately I've been impressed how little info were getting about upcoming Euro cars, including MB, Audi and BMW. If nothing else the timing has been almost unpredictable.
    For what it's worth I did fire off a email to BMW of NA asking about changes and suggesting that I would cancel my order if they didn't get back to me one way or another.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Some updates...

    The production CLS-Class Coupe will be shown. The G55 AMG gets the same supercharged version of the 5.5L V8 as the SL/CL and E55 AMG models. The world's fastest Nato rescue

    The new SLK-Class will be presented as will the C-Class facelift.

    The isn't any mention of the SL65 AMG, yet.

  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    Spy pics of the slightly redesigned BMW 7-series are available at

    Here is the link: 8&n=158
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    Also, I have seen it mentioned several times that the '05('05.5?) 7-series engine will be upped to 4.8 liters and approx. 400bhp.
  • ksurgksurg Posts: 48
    Great stuff! It makes more sense that an '05 will be here by Summer or more likely Fall.

    merc1 I pretty much agree with all you said.
  • sv7887sv7887 Posts: 351
    Hi All,
      I favor the touchscreen design, you spend less time fiddling in order to get your job done.

    Here's a thought: In the F-15, fighter pilots can access nearly all relevant functions on stick. They know the buttons by touch and can dial up the function on the Heads Up Display. I realize I'm talking about a $40 Million plus fighter jet, but this was developed in the mid 1970's. I know BMW has implemented a HUD display (Option on 5-Series?) so why not take it further one step? I think it would avoid distractions by having everything projected in front of the driver.

    The BMW 7 just isn't my thing. I've looked at one but didn't feel inclined to drive it. I'm willing to bet it's far more exciting to drive than my LS cars. As for all these high end cars: AMG et all, how many of these do they sell? From a marketing perspective why do they offer them? Prestige?

  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    I rented a car with a "Touch Screen" years ago. :-P Said screen was used (if I remember correctly) for the A/C and Audio (then Radio) controls. I maintain to this day that installing such equipment in a car would be the single most dangerous thing a car manufacturer could do. Why? Simple, no tactile feed back. So? That means that you need to take your eyes off of the road so that you can see what to "Touch".

    If a car is ever put on the market again with that type of interface as the only way of controlling certain equipment, I will never own it.

    Best Regards,


    Gee wizz, can you tell that I have an opinion on this issue? ;-)
  • ksurgksurg Posts: 48
    Plausible denial. There is no way BMW is going to admit or deny changes to the upcoming 745i. They claim that they don't have any info about the '05 or when it will be released. They will only have info when it goes into production( normally this would be in Sept. but could be next month). They specifically refused to send me written confirmation of this. In other words they weren't willing to on record about not having any info at this time. Although I understand their position it makes me suspicious and angry. If I am buying a $78K auto months from a new release and am savvy enough to contact them I deserve a more honest and informative answer.
  • ksurg,

    The front-end of the 7-Series pictures I was shown looked much like the one in the car connection link that maxhonda99 posted. I have to admit that since I was not overly interested I did not study them closely. I saw three pictures - one directly from the front, one looking at the side and front from an angle (passenger side) and one from the passenger side looking at the rear but only exposing the corner of the rear-end. My impression was very much like the text on the link - that the car was rounded-out on all quarters and some of the more pronounced BMW styling clues (e.g., kidney-type grill) from generations of BMWs were somewhat back (although only slightly).

    I do not believe that he had more pictures and did not ask but they appeared to be official BMW photos. I personally know 3 - 4 owners of car dealerships and it is just like merc1 says. They get significant information about upcoming models months before official introduction.

    My personal experiences agree with merc1 that they want to keep you in the dark so that you will buy what they currently have to sell and BMW North America does the same. Quite frankly, being a businessman I can not blame them.

    However, he seemed very hopeful that they would have them by late summer instead of September/October. I did ask him if by late summer he meant June and he said "yes". As I mentioned yesterday, I distinctly got the idea that he (and other BMW dealers) want the restyled 7-Series as much as any BMW owner or prospective buyer.

    I wish that I could provide you more but I am not really a prospective BMW buyer. I am trying to find out what the totally re-engineered 2006 MB S-Class is going to look like and what new technology it will have (e.g., brake-by-wire, etc). I am seriously considering leasing a current S-Class and then waiting for the 2006 S-Class and the 2007 Lexus LS. That way, if I do not like the new ones I can keep the current S-Class model which I believe is the best looking luxury car available in the US. I had two friends that did the same thing with the former BMW 7-Series and when they saw the new one they felt like geniuses.

  • merc1,

    Do you have any new insight of when MB will first show the new S-Class? I am assuming that it will be either Geneva in March 2005 or Frankfurt in September 2005. Normal patterns would mean that the US would then see it in either October 2005 or April 2006.


  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Your speculation:

    "I am assuming that it will be either Geneva in March 2005 or Frankfurt in September 2005. Normal patterns would mean that the US would then see it in either October 2005 or April 2006."

    is exactly correct. It all depends on which show the car debuts at. For instance the CLS is debuting at Geneva, so it'll be here by late fall. Your analysis about the S is very correct.

  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    BTW, nobody will be disappointed to know that a LS430 can behave like that, of course it can because after all it is patterned after the German car that does it best. If you ever you ever drive a Benz at that speed you'll see what I mean.

  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Been surfing - one other thing about MB's plans for the next S and CL.

    They are going to introduce the CL65 and S65 later this year as 05' models, which leads me to believe that the next S and CL will be 2007 models, on sale in early 2006 instead of fall 2005. The 2006 model year will be an abbreviated one. I've see this happen before, as with the 1999 S-Class. It was cut short in the spring of 1999 to make way for the 2000 model. Ditto for the 2002 SL.

  • merc1,

    What is your take on the prospective styling and technology of upcoming 2007 S-Class versus the current one? Some of the spy photos I saw on a German car site seemed to indicate its exterior will be a much larger version of the new E-Class with some continued styling evolution (which is typical of MB)? As I have mentioned, I really like the styling of the current S-Class which is only out done within MB by the big CL coupe (but I need four doors).

    However, although I could go with the new styling even though I am not sure it is better, what really worries me is new technology introduction. You brought up a really good example recently based on spy photos that seem to indicate a MB version of BMW iDrive or Audi's similar system. I am really a big fan of NAV/etc setups with a touch screen coupled with conventional buttons like the current S-Class and Lexus LS.

    Another technology that I hear is going to absolutely make it to the new S-Class is electronic brake-by-wire. Reviewers and owners of the new E-Class seem to universally hate the lack of proper feel and poor modulation of brake-by-wire. Sometimes it just seems like MB is obsessed with adding new technology for the sake of it and do not realize that most of their luxury car customers don't want these technology items or the quality glitches they seem to bring.

  • Have you driven an 04 sport or an 01 or 02 or 03 LS430????

    If not how can you compare the two????
  • "BTW, nobody will be disappointed to know that a LS430 can behave like that, of course it can because after all it is patterned after the German car that does it best"

    Sigh !

    Now the LS is a clone of the S !!! Only in your minds, Merc1, only in your minds.... Ever driven a late model LS ('01 - '04) to make such assertion above ? Or is it one of those you know which is owned by a brother of a friend who is a nephew to aunt Mae, you kinda saw on the driveway or musta read about in the auto mag..... Yada yada yada.... Really very boring stuff this constant MB coping by Lexus. Very boring indeed. Give it a rest will ya ?
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Sigh is right, as you guys continually miss the point in your rush to deride anything I post.

    Read ljflx's post on the LS board!

    My point was that the LS430 was designed like a German car for faultless high-speed travel. Are you two denying this? You're telling me that Toyota made large, heavy, high-speed touring sedans with these traits before Lexus was invented to compete with Mercedes and BMW? I simply meant that the LS430's high speed behavior is patterned after the German cars it competes with. Now if your position is that it isn't as good at high speed then fine I'll not argue with that, but well all know that won't be your postion will it?

    Are you really that sensitive about the truth on copying (as it pertains to the LS430's styling) that even when nobody says anything about it you're having flashbacks of long-ago conversations?

    These assumptions and lack of reading the preceeding post(s), before responding, is what needs to be given a "rest".

  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    We're definitely on the same page in reguards to styling of the current S and especially the CL.

    I personally expect the next S to be what you said, an evolution of the new E-Class, but with a slightly different rear end. I'n not sure if the next car (just going by the spy photos and various drawings) will look as good as the current car, especially the Sport version of the current S. IMO only the A8 even compares looks wise. The 7-Series continues to be hideous to me.

    It might be a little too early to speculate about its styling without a definite drawing or an uncamoflouged prototype being caught during testing.

    I've read where the brake by wire of the E and SL won't make it into the next S due to cost reasons. This sounds bass-ackwards to me, simply because the S is much more expensive than the E-Class anyway. So who knows what they'll do there. Incredibly "electromechanical" brakes are being developed for the S, but not at the initial launch. Automatic lane correction has (thankfully) been pushed back, due to concerns about all this tech debuting in a totally new car, which will also include (rarely for MB) an all need engine range also.

    So far everything says that Mercedes will adopt some type of idrive controller combined with the next generation of Comand. The controller will reportedly give the driver a choice between using the conventional buttons or not. From what the British press says, the controller won't take the place of basic controls like in the BMW. I must say that the spy photograph presented by autospies looks just like the 7-Series BMW, right down to the air vents and gearshift, scary. I for one can't believe Mercedes would copy the styling of the 7-Series interior, that would be an unprecedented move (read: mistake) on Mercedes' part.

    We should know more this summer when they'll have to start testing more and more prototypes out in the open in anticipation for next year's debut.

  • OK all you BMW, Lexus, MB, et al diehards. Open your eyes and see all of your design elements (exterior, at least) on the KIA Amanti!

    I won't argue that the Amanti doesn't belong on this board, but they aren't sweating anybody's comments of copying. It seems to be working for them. Getting 2-3 Amanti's for the price of one of our regular targets of discussion (argument?) may really be the hidden value here.

    Hold it, everyone. Don't get apoplexic! Stay calm and enjoy a little humor.
  • Agree it does not belong on this board, but it is a blatant copy of the MB E-class. Oopsssey.... There goes the *copy* word again. But who cares ? If it works for Kia, more power to them. A 2004 Kia Armanti retails for $23,5K in our local paper. That's an insane price for a supposedly lux car. Even a bland Accord EX V6 sells north of that price. I'd rather own the Accord EX V6 than a Kia Armanti, regardless of how lux (?) the latter is. Buy an Armanti but don't ever try to re-sell it cos you'd be taking a bath, way worse than the lux sector laggards - Jaguar/Range Rover.
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