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High End Luxury Cars



  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    Never said anything about the Benz owners not looking forward to their future cars. Besides I'm the lessee of the group - the others are owners, in some cases for many years and many miles. You take praise and enthusiasm for Lexus as an attack on Benz even though there is no such thing going on.

    If you look at any comparison of engines in car lines the smaller engine sells more units. The Camry 4 easily outsells its V6 brother. Its price, not engine size that does it. My LS430 does almost as well in gas mileage as my mothers V6 Camry so its not gas mileage that is much of an issue either, at least as relates to 6 and 8 cyl engines.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Performance sedans are hot and I expect them to get hotter. Acura is backing the right horse, not only in this area but also with the advanced SH-AWD. Ljflx you hit the nail on the head with the RL competing with the 5-series... it sure has my attention.

    Every car in their lineup is now sporty. Expect them to pilfer buyers from all corners including converts from pure luxury to sport-luxury with the RL. I could care less about a V8. Going from 220 to 300 hp is significant. And if it comes with a weight loss and tight sport suspension it will do the trick in my book.

    TL seems to be a smash hit. Will RL hit back-to-back? I'll venture to say yes.

    Merc1, you're right the RL does look small but I read it is roomier than the 5. IMO these are good signs. I'd like to see them slim down the spokes though.

    Can't wait to get to the NY show.
  • Will the 300 hp. Acura do 5.8 sec like the 04 LS 430 sport will do.

    I am guessing NO even though it is several hundred pounds lighter.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    I could care less about the LS' 5.9 secs. The M3 sucks the doors off my Boxster S... I wouldn't go near it based on ride quality and handling. I'm thinking total package with the RL... AWD, handling, decent power, good looks, superb Acura fit, finish, touches, reliability... at a much lower price than the LS.
  • mbukukanyaumbukukanyau Posts: 200
    I always though this is Cadillacs Bigest Nightmare. Its Dealerships.
    There is one in Longbeach who oparates out of containers next to the Freeway.
    He has had an XLR that hasn't sold from the time they were hot.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    What about the RL is so compelling that it goes up against the LS rather than the GS or M?

    Sure, the GS300 trails in hp big-time, then the RL should be compared to the GS430, not the LS430.

    It certainly should be compared to the new M35 rather than the M45.

    Anyways, the SH-AWD is interesting, but we'll see how it translates on the pavement. The M will have an active rear suspension, we'll have to see about that one too.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    You guys can shoot this out all you want. I'll be listening, reading and waiting for its arrival. All I know is, I like what I see so far and am interested in it as the sequel to my 530, not an LS alternative (although don't be surprised if this happens). But it's early in the game... have to see it, drive it, and parse reviews. I wouldn't touch the GS or Ms with a 90-foot pole based on looks alone.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    I'll be curious to see what your thoughts are on the RL as you get closer to your buy/lease situation. The RL definitely looks smaller than before leading me even more to think its redrawing its competitive lines to the mid sedans rather than the larger marquees - which, as I said, it had no chance against with the existing model. Based on the little I've seen and now read of it I'd take it on paper over the 5, GS, E or A6 and certainly over Infiniti's dreaded M45. But paper and the real world are two different stories so it has to be experienced first. You're right - you'll get all that great Acura reliability and build quality as well. I think Acura will draw some of the BMW crowd given the poor designs BMW has come up with. Merc1 may like the 5 series but to me it looks like a shrunken 7 and a car that can't seem to figure out what it was supposed to look like.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    To each his own about looks. Based on photos, I'm very impressed with the design of the 2006 M, as many others seem to be on edmunds and other boards as well.

    The GS is okay, looks kinda bloated.

    The RL is inoffensive. "Boring" is the first thing that comes to my mind when I look at it.

    Maybe seeing the cars in person will be different.
  • lenscaplenscap Posts: 854
    I couldn't link to the photos of the LF-S and GS side-by-side because of Edmund's rules, but I found these links which will help show you the rooflines and side glass are nearly identical. From the side, even the back ends are very close (although the side taillights are different).

    It's very hard to compare photos like this when you have to keep switching back and forth between links, and the photos are different sizes, but hopefully you'll see how similar the two cars are from the side. To best see the similarities you may have to print each out and hold them next to each other.

    GS (scroll down): - - - - - - ection_id=31&article_id=7671

  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    I've yet to go to the auto show and hence have not seen the GS in person. But I saw my cousin yesterday and he told me the GS is far better looking in the flesh than in the pictures he had seen earlier and people who saw it with him thought Lexus hit the mark with the car. I'll have to see it up close and decide.

    jrock - sorry - I was referring to the current M45.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    You can link to anything except directly to another automotive message board - we've had a, um, rules adjustment, I'm happy to report. :-)

    If you see pics on another message board that you'd like to link to here, just find and link to the source rather than the message.

    Feel free to email me with questions, thoughts or comments.

  • lenscaplenscap Posts: 854
    After seeing the new GS in person both in Detroit and Chicago I thought it was a knockout. I agree with your cousin. Photos do not show all of the unique creases and shapes of the GS sheetmetal, especially the front end. I definitely feel the GS needs to be seen in person to be appreciated.

    That said, my mother will be trading in her 1999 GS 300 on the new one. The dealer told us it goes on sale March 1, 2005, and she'll be looking to get one around September 2005.

    How's the new LS 430?
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    The new LS430 is spectacular. Rides like a dream, has tighter handling, more than enough road feel and is very quiet. The nappa leather is very rich and the antique walnut wood is stunning on the car. They've added nice touches from 2001. These are things like vanity mirrors that drop from the headliner for rear passengers (I am sure Lexus will turn these into DVD screens at some point), the rearview camera is great to have and the back-up sensors that detect something is behind you are there if you choose not to look at the camera view. There are other nice interior touches but I won't go into them here. The laser cruise is great and works perfectly on the highway and the car pushes itself to 75mph so effortlessly and so quickly that you stare down at the spedometer in disbelief that you are going that fast. Lastly smartkey is great. Like the nav system you wonder why you need it and once you have it you can't be without it. The only problem is that when I go to drive the GX I am expecting the door to open on contact with my hand like the LS does. But that lacks smartkey so it never does. My custom lux also has door closers and headlight washers. The only thing it really lacks is an air suspension. But the base suspension on this car is great anyway. Perhaps the best thing of all though is that Lexus has taken the body build of this car and the fit and finish to an even higher level if you can believe it. This car is a built like a tank. I also scored 23mpg on my initial refill of gas. Couldn't be happier with the car.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    BTW, my "boring" comment about the RL was about the exterior. The interior is awesome. I'm kind of going back and forth between the M and the RL as to which interior I like best.

    This is surprising because I've always preferred Lexus interiors. However, no doubt the quality of materials in the GS will be top notch.
  • MBUKUKANYAU, you know, I can recall a time back in the mid '50s to early '60s when the local Cadillac store was the finest in an area, the dealer principal lived in a big house up on the hill and was active in civic affairs, the sales guys were mature family men, and people thought it would be an honor to be able to buy a car from a dealer like that. Some business guys would even trade every year for the $700 or difference. Poor people, poor urban people lusted after a used Caddy (I had a drill Sgt at Ft Dix who called his new Buick 225 a Deuce-and-a-quarter). Then the market changed, GM gave them glorified Impalas to sell, and their sons and daughters went to law school.

    Do you think GM would be as badly screwed up if the senior management, Jack Smith on down, had to actually buy, drive and maintain their own cars from local dealers? Rather, the senior management has gotten as far away from the product as they can. This is not true among the senior people in Munich or Stuggart.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    "You take praise and enthusiasm for Lexus as an attack on Benz even though there is no such thing going on."

    Nope, not my take on it at all. I so see a double standard however. You argued boo20 up and down about waiting lists and such, yet you yourself experienced the same thing at your dealership when buying a new LS430, yet an AMG Benz or some other hot Benz like a CLK Cabriolet couldn't possibly have a waiting list or anyone waiting for them. You seem to imply that because you and a few other Lexus fans are waiting for a 2007 LS model (that you know nothing about yet) will be hot because of it's drivetrain, yet when I suggested that a diesel Benz (you know a car that actually goes on sale this month) might be equally sought after, that notion was met with "diesel won't make it" and such. Too much glossing over everything, only Lexus this and that in here nowadays.

  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Sorry, but I don't see a concept to production progression with the LF-S and the new GS. They did lift some styling cues from it though, but compared to the concept the GS is a major letdown. Especially the rear end, its nothing like the concept. Unless you're going to come close to the concept, the concept is a waste of time. Lexus needs to look at how other companies make the transfer from concept to production, most come much closer to the concept than Lexus has with the LF-S to GS. Look at the roofline and rear end of the two cars, they aren't even close!

  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    I don't have a clue as to what you are talking about. I never said there was a wait list for the LS430. I said my dealership (not the US or even a dealership 30 miles away) was sold out for April and that the Euro LS is hard to get around here. Go back and read my posts and tell me where I said there was a wait list. As for 2007 I am speculating and I honestly believe there will be so much demand for an LS hybrid that it will be a hard car to get at that time. What facts could I possibly have to support that other than my own intuition. Let's see how the RX hybrid plays out - that will certainly give the indications of what is to come. Someone else also said there is a long waitlist for the Prius. As well waitlists have to be tied in some way to production volume. Anyone can create a wait list - just produce a handful of cars.

    Now - diesel cars have never been easy to sell here. I don't know anyone that has any desire to even look at one. This has nothing to do with MB and everything to do with how the American public buys cars. It buys gas engines because that is what it has been trained to do and that is how the business model is set up. Hybrids don't change that model, diesels do. Business models don't change very easily. Nor will they change when there is a logical alternative that maintains the current model. This is not about Benz at all. Why else would MB only commit 3000 CDI's for the US market. Because they are uncertain about diesel demand and market reserach doesn't give them any confidence that they can sell more.

    Boo20 claimed that there were year+ wait list for cars across the whole US - in some cases ordinary E-500's, not even AMG's. So I look at my sunday paper and I see a bunch of them advertised for sale - prices and all - both ordinary cars and AMG's. Plus that was just a partial list. Thus I couldn't buy his story. Persoonally I couldn't care less as I was not in the market for any of the cars he was touting anyway.
  • mbukukanyaumbukukanyau Posts: 200
    The Problem with senior management is loosing touch with their own product. I call it the CEO syndrome.
    You would be in a better position to run a company if you know what your customers go through.
    If you saw Cadillac Dealerships in San Diego, they look like a 1969 Time capsule. Complete with 70’s furniture, and a MacDonald’s next door
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