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High End Luxury Cars

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Comments

  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    "I can't recall anyone ever claiming that any lexus has superior body rigidity or quietness compared to a BMW..... "

    Have you ever seen anyone claim a Lexus isn't sturdy?

    Look at the safety statistics, the long term durability of the body and associated hardware. Wow! the Lexus family sure seems sturdy from everything I have read.

    And the quietness part? Gimme a break. We all know who makes quieter cars.

    "True, the RX does not have a 3rd rear seat, but it's a chick car and a clumsy handler. It's like a fancy livingroom on wheels."

    Wow! It's amazing how many men I see driving a RX330! They must really be women putting on a costume while driving the RX.

    "Chick car". Did you forget something? Last time I rememeber the 3-series is a pretty big chick car.
  • livinbmwlivinbmw Posts: 120
    Oh, yeah. I've driven the LS. In fact, I spent quite a bit of my early career with Toyota and I appreciate what they do as a company, for sure. Reliability has nothing to do with sturdiness in the sense that I'm relating to. If that were the case than we'd rank the Corolla number one.

    Conceding the handling point is a HUGE concession. Then, you're saying better braking, steering, control, acceleration..........I'd contend that this is what driving is all about. Vehicles are for driving and if the BMW was that unreliable than they wouldn't compete at all much less be the top selling luxury make in the world.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    The LS is an upscale Camry. The 7 is not an upscale 3 series. And things do go wrong and fall apart on these cars. Same as BMW. I'm not quite sure it matters, if the electric motor in the LS seats fail vs the electric motor in the sunroof on the 7. Same diff as far as I'm concerned. The wood for the base model LS is ugly. I find the front seats uncomfortable.

    They may have less defects and maybe a boring car is what people want at the $70K price point, but the 7 series will trounce the LS, if BMW addresses the issues. People I talk to, don't fault the 7 series mechanically, they fault the i-drive.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    "Reliability has nothing to do with sturdiness in the sense that I'm relating to. If that were the case than we'd rank the Corolla number one. "

    Then what are you relating to?

    -Body rigidity? Well, Lexus ranks right up there with Mercedes & BMW in safety ratings. Safety ratings are obviously a testement to body rigidity. Also, I have a uncle that owns both a ES300 with 130K miles and a 2000 LS400. The ES300 is still flex free and suspension soaks up bumps as well as day 1, not to mention steering & brakes operate flawlessly. Sure seems the body is still pretty tight to me after all these miles. The LS400, built like a tank, no flexing, even over the most potholed roads, can't hear any squeaks, rattles from anywhere. Is that sturdiness?
    How about how the hardware holdsup? 130K miles & all windows are original, all still work. In fact, everything in the car is still original and everything still works as good as when new.

    "Then, you're saying better braking, steering, control, acceleration.........."

    Check the stats buddy. The GS brakes better than the 5-series. the LS430 brakes better than the 7-series. The IS300 brakes better than the 3-series. Acceleration? Isn't the GS430 on par with a 540i? Or the LS430 quicker than the 745i/IL?

    "Vehicles are for driving". So than shouldn't everyone be driving a BMW? How is the RX330 squashing the X3&X5 combined? How is the ES330 outselling the 3-series sedan line-up? Or the LS430 outselling the 7-series by about a 2 to 1 margin? Huh...wait I can answer that. Not everyone has handling as their #1 priority!
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    "but the 7 series will trounce the LS, if BMW addresses the issues."

    And what would happen if Lexus addresses the few issues that they do have?
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "Check the stats buddy. The GS brakes better than the 5-series. the LS430 brakes better than the 7-series. The IS300 brakes better than the 3-series. Acceleration? Isn't the GS430 on par with a 540i? Or the LS430 quicker than the 745i/IL?"

    No according to recent comparisions, the 7 series is the better handler, better accelerator, better braker and gets better gas mileage.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    The last comparo I read had the LS430 with slightly better braking and I think about the same acceleration time. Gas mileage? You know how accurate EPA figures are. Also, the BMW 745i is 18/26 vs. 18/25. wow! big difference. Thanks for the correction!
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    That's the thing about comparos they are all different, the last one I read, the 7 had a lead in the performance stats department. The reason the LS came out on top was because the testers felt the 7 series ride was too harsh and didn't like the i-drive and felt the LS interior is better (I don't think so).
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    ah yes, magazine comparos do vary based on many factors. The last C&D comparo of luxury cars was the last one I can remember. And the comparo did favor the other cars because the LS430 didn't have the sport suspension option, therefore the Ls430 only had the 17" wheels with H-rated tires, whereas the others had bigger and stickier tires.

    but of course, comparos also vary greatly based on weather, track conditions. And of course you could test the same cars on different days and get different measurements.
  • livinbmwlivinbmw Posts: 120
    My contention is not that Lexus has poor body rigidity or bad brakes. Only that the BMW is better. It's a better driving car. And, it leads the luxury segment in sales.
  • "the seven series is superior inside and out to lexus"

    Hmmmmmmmm....

    Does it have superior Dependability?
    Superior Ride
    Superior comfort
    Superior Price (in terms of a lower price not higher)
    Superior sound system
    Superior Nav system
    Superior Emissions (in terms of Lower emissions)
    Superior safty systems
    Is it more quiet.
    Does it have a superior dealer and service network

    The above are all objective standards...More pleasing to the eye is a subjective standard....The 7 series does handle a little better if you like to drive very fast on twisty roads...
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    There's action in the BMW bullpen...
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    My contention is not that Lexus has poor body rigidity or bad brakes. Only that the BMW is better. It's a better driving car. And, it leads the luxury segment in sales

    Talking of total hack job here. Livinbmw, you obviously need to re-check your facts on the 7 vs LS. Have you seen/heard/read of this comparo test back in Dec 2003 ?

    http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article- _id=7359

    Guess who won ???

    How about sales YTD ? Guess who is wayyyyyy ahead of the 7-series in sales ??? Well, guess again !!!
     http://www.autosite.com/editoria/asmr/svsedan.asp

    Now back to my rocking chair....
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    Maybe you can explain why the 7 series sales are drying up in its second year of production. That says it all right there. They can't sell decently even with heavily subsidized leases right now. But your entitled to your theory and opinion.

    Designman - I always get a kick out of the big Camry label. The guy defeats his integrity before he leaves the starting gate. Sorry - this is just someone trying to stir things up and it's not worth it.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Bases loaded, no outs and he has to face THESE two guys? Oac, I thought you were on the 2-week DL?
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    Trouble with the relief pitcher (ehm, Livinbmw) is that his curve ball doesn't curve as well, his fast ball is a little less fast, and his sinker pitch is not sinking and hence unable to keep the batters honest. Otherwise, he is a heck of a relief pitcher with three pitches, just not up to major league stuff (yet). Let's see how many outs he can record before the manager yanks him off the field and send him back to the minors.

    :)
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    It's an exhibition game.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    That's what they call them here.... Where you sit outside on a covered porch and watch the sunset. Beautiful.... HAd the laptop going and thought I'd look in and see how things are doing on edmundsville. I'll check back in occassionally, just won't be able to read every post (simply skip to the end...)
  • sapparosapparo Posts: 68
    The 7 series is an electronic mess, typical poor german electrical systems design. This car is already tanking in resale compared to the other two big dogs. My cousin a master tech. who worked at Infiniti and Lexus for 10 years is leaving to go work for BMW. The japanese luxury brands were just routine maintenance, wear items and oil changes very few major issues.

    Much more lucrative to go work on the german brands which are well below japan in quality especially lousy electrical systems. All kinds of problems with their new models and recalls already. What's the X5 up to now 20? Don't look at surveys just go ask your nearest technician about reliability problems and you'll get all the data you need from the horses mouth.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Certainly we can debate the ideas and opinions presented without getting personal ... let's try that, okay?
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