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High End Luxury Cars

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Comments

  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    What exactly about the trunk don't you like? The Maybach look??

    On the new S - as you look at the rear quarter panel, the trunk seems to sit raised up as a platform that reveals a seam that is narrower as well and above the rear quarter panels on both sides. It is at these left and right locations that the trunk does not integrate properly for my eye . . . especially on that silver car.

    I have only seen the Maybach in photos and I have not had the privilege of seeing one in person. From all the many pics I have seen, I like it very much. The trunk does not bother me.

    Maybe the best color for the new S is black.

    TagMan
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    I wonder if the V12 version of the Quattroporte is still on for next year? I hate that the technical alliance between Maser and Audi fell apart because Audi's DSG tranny would have been a brilliant stroke in a car like the Quattroporte.

    Oh its the DB9 that does it for me, there isn't a better looking car in production or on the road IMO. The V8 Vantage is a looker too, but its more a of smaller copy of the original IMO. It doesn't look quite a good to me.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    I guess I've never really noticed what you're talking about on the new S, it was always the wheel arches that bothered me until I started seeing them on the road and in different colors other than silver. The wheel arches seem to be a perfect match for the AMG package though. I posted some pics in a earlier thread of the S with and without the AMG pack.

    M
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Now the convertible I haven't seen in person so I'll reserve judgement. Convertibles have been known to look better than their hardtop counterparts.

    Yes, they often do. Somehow though I'm not going to hold my breath that you're going to like the GTC.

    Interestingly, I don't see the Jag R concept linkage that lexusguy sees. Actually, I haven't been a big fan of that R concept. I do like the current XK, however, although I'll concede that the "snout", as you call it, is a tad compromised. I learned that it was somehow due to some sort of safety compliance thing in Europe that requires a car's front to buckle in the event of hitting a pedestrian. Sounds bizarre to me.

    TagMan
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Dont know about the V-12. Most of the news about the car getting the 575M's motor is a year old, so I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Yes, they often do. Somehow though I'm not going to hold my breath that you're going to like the GTC.

    No I wouldn't suggest that...lol!

    Yes the new Euro pedestrian laws are going to make designing beautiful cars that much harder. The next generation Mercedes CLK and SL will have to comply so I cringe to think what they'll look like. The new CL will give some indication as to how Mercedes will deal with the new regs. Porsche got lucky here since they don't currently make any front-engined cars. The mandate is that there be a certain amount of space between the hood and the uppermost hard point of the engine. This is one reason why Mercedes is getting rid of supercharged engines, that supercharger sits right at the top of the engine. Though they do a hell of a job with the front end of the new S-Class, but you can still see the thickness of the hood in the styling. Same thing on the new Lexus LS and Volvo S80 both have really thick looking hoods.

    M
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    The wheel arches seem to be a perfect match for the AMG package though. I posted some pics in a earlier thread of the S with and without the AMG pack

    I remember those pics. The AMG S looked impressive indeed.

    Next time you see the S, take a good look at the trunk from the rear diagonal view. Don't just look at it from a standing height, but look at it from another driver's height. It may or may not bother you, but I think you'll know what I'm talking about.

    TagMan
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Next time you see the S, take a good look at the trunk from the rear diagonal view. Don't just look at it from a standing height, but look at it from another driver's height. It may or may not bother you, but I think you'll know what I'm talking about.

    Ok, I'll try that.

    Here is a video on topic about the cars we were talking about a few post back.

    M
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Thanks for the good wishes, Tagman.

    You know, $109k for the Q isn't really outrageous when compared to new S-Class and LS offerings and it would definitely be unique to the neighborhood but alas, also to parking attendants and rolling shopping carts.

    I too would love to drive that baby.
    Those front seats look fabulous!
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    Aren't many new cars already designed in accordance with the regs? In addition to the distance between hood and engine the shape of the bumper and grille is also regulated. The idea is to flip the passenger onto a cushioned hood without the bumper breaking legs. It's an interesting concept and they could take it to the nth degree if so desired which would virtually neuter styling considerations. I also think the hood height reg is what caused beltines to rise resulting in all of the slab sides we now see.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    Nice video. Did my eyes deceive me or was the top time turned in by a Honda Civic Type R? Is this a front wheel drive car?

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • benzsterbenzster Member Posts: 152
    Bose, whew where to start?
    I'll start with the old Maxima system. Not good. There were little IF ANY upgrade speaker options, and if you blew one you had to get a matched speaker for the headset due to the amps in the speakers. They would look the same but not play. They MUST be matched to headset.
    Then: Jump to the more recent systems. They have power and a sub ported into the cabin. Better but not precise. Upgrade to Bose is better but not best. I think MB was looking for a "Name" to replace Becker (pronounced "blech"er).
    Now: I have the HK upgrade in the R and CLK. Much better. I record live music as a hobby. The reproduction is very good. The CLK is better than the R. It seems to be more than interior room that makes a difference. This system is warm and precise. It would seem that the tuning to interior dimensions is on the spot. With the sterile mixing today and the push toward a "perfect" recording the systems do tell their weaknesses easily. Although the music is "mechanical" but a different forum.... I need to put that old test record with the trains running into each other and the dog wetting the carpet between your speakers on CD. If you are over 50 you MAY know the one.
    I would like to compare other systems than Nach vs MK vs Bose. The home Mark L. speakers are just top notch but is it the "name" game again? Yall tell me. I know they won't compair to a 6ft electrostatic speaker but are they any good COMPAIRED to others?
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Yeah the Civic Type R is front wheel drive and very very light. I am not sure how much the UK version weighs but probably around 2,500 lbs and over 200 hp.
  • benzsterbenzster Member Posts: 152
    are you sure it said Honda? maybe Zonda
    1.Ferrari Enzo
    2.Ariel Atom
    3.Carrera GT
    4.Mem????
    5.Ford GT40
    6.Ferrari 360
    7.GT3 RS
    8.Aur???
    9.Zonda
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    That's interesting to know as I read in Autocar that the new AMG's will have the 7-G. But I also wondered if the current cars couldn't cope with 738lb-ft of torque, then surely the new cars, which are astonishingly more powerful, can't.

    The 5-speed that was equipped in my S65 was a model of discipline and smooth shifts. But I've tested the 7-g in both a E500 and the new S550, and it is buttery smooth.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Also, considering that Maserati essentially hand builds only about 15 Qs a day, its price doesnt seem bad at all. Until you see the depreciation numbers anyway...
  • benzsterbenzster Member Posts: 152
    The 7 Speed can't. 5 speed only in the big AMG's now. We even had issues with the first 210 chassis E55 busting motor mounts.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Ah I see what it was. It was at the top of the list for that grouping but not really the top. They had it listed as number 14.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Very interesting video, the Jag seemed clumsy and completey out of its element. The Sport GT Quattroporte would be a much fairer fight vs the CLS.
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    We even had issues with the first 210 chassis E55 busting motor mounts.

    Wow. Do you know who took the blame for that? Engineering or a manufacturing flaw? Not good.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Here is a video on topic about the cars we were talking about a few post back.

    Thanks. You somehow always find the right content when needed. Do you post on that site?

    Quite a testimonial. Can't argue with all that footage. Once again, your CLS AMG is quite a car for a four door. I love the Jags, but I'm shaking my head just a bit about how sloppy the XJR really looked in that video when pushed to the limit. Anything even approaching normal driving conditions, of course, and the XJR is still a terrific car that offers the driver a lot of excitement and style, but I'm not making any excuses for it, believe me.

    BTW, what's the word on the next CLK (yes, K, no typo) AMG that will be released?

    TagMan
  • benzsterbenzster Member Posts: 152
    Wow. Do you know who took the blame for that? Engineering or a manufacturing flaw? Not good.
    I blame Frans at AMG for building a torque monster of an engine ;).
    The CLK55 with 362HP is all I know so far.
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    The ultimate luxury performance sedan is the Quattroporte, no question about it.

    Second that...

    But I agree, the new S550, new S8, S65 and its AMG high-end siblings fit the bill to a point. Maybe the LS600h will, but no one can tell for now.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    All I know is that with a THX certified 10 speaker audio system in the 2 seater Z4, you've gotta come away hearing-impaired after 3-4 years! ;)
  • benzsterbenzster Member Posts: 152
    But a jackhammer would do the same thing. hehehehehe ;)
  • stevekilburnstevekilburn Member Posts: 359
    I am not sure if there are any old world aristocrats left.

    Aristo= best, crata= rule. So, "rule by the best"

    The aristocrats these days are neither the best of the society nor do they wear crowns anymore.

    The old arnage always had that old charm, retired play boyishness with prostate cancer and high cholesterol with a generous helping of hemophilia. These days its a global society. Besides people are more passionate and less traditional.

    The world is moving at the speed and agility of a ferrari and I am not sure if hippos will catch on with dynamic, go-getter smart young people after 2010.

    But who knows, america always had a passionate longing for fat. In europe these relics sell in far fewer numbers. Europeans like to stay healthy. In Asia anything "white" is worshipped and the rush towards hippos is unprecedented.
    Aren't we lucky? Dirty sheiks buy our gas-guzzling bentleys and we buy their oil. Its a win-win. ;)

    I love lithesome and perky beauties hence the love for ferrari, porsche and mustang.
  • stevekilburnstevekilburn Member Posts: 359
    Bose is still the best surround sound system. of course you cannot compare a bose in nissan to a bose in porsche.

    The sound systems are individually tuned according to the level of refinement required by the manufacturer and the money they want to shell out for such a system.

    A bose in porsche would tend to be much more refined than a bose in nissan. Got it?

    I have visited the Bose mountain in Massachusetts and they sure have the most cutting edge technology. It could be the case that for a given price they can only provide so much but not more.

    If you want the best of bose, go for an expensive car with bose sound.
  • stevekilburnstevekilburn Member Posts: 359
    After visiting the NY auto show and test driving some of these beauties I can say the cars that offer performance and luxury to the highest degree are very few, among them

    1. Quattroporte
    2. Audi A8

    are the only sedans that make the grade.

    Among sports cars it is:

    1. Ferrari (All of them)
    2. Porsche cayman S

    are the ones that make the grade.

    Rest is just second class and doesnt make the cut. Others may have different standards.
    probably my most snobbish post. :P
  • stevekilburnstevekilburn Member Posts: 359
    Relax Tagman the rear of S will grow on you. My friend told me the other day, his wife was lovely in the beginning but then her fanny enlarged quite a bit over years, but he "grew" to like her more than ever.

    If you want lithesome yet well endowed beauty go for the quattroporte and close your eyes quickly (not on the freeway though) when you see the benz. ;)
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    I'd rather go for the Lexus ML system or the new BMW THX certified Carver 10 speaker system in the Z4 even though with the latter, I'm sure my ears would be chronically ringing after only a few months!
    I hope this new BMW system will be offered soon as an option for the 3 and 5 series.
    It may get me back to listening to car audio again-something I gave up a long time ago.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    steve - a little heavy on the Starbucks today? ;)

    Remember your doctor's orders . . . "if it hurts when you do that . . . well, don't do that!"

    The S-Class trunk is too thick on top. It actually looks like it has an extra trunk lid on top of a real one hidden underneath.

    One more thing, steve . . . the BOSE is all hype, with a few product exceptions. Really. If you tell me you like Porsches, I know you appreciate good performance cars, but if you tell me that Bose is the best, then you are tone deaf. :D

    TagMan
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    inferior to so many other brands in producing accurate sound, they make you pay dearly for such mediocrity.
    it's great marketing: charge double what everyone else charges and people with money burning a hole in their pockets figure they are buying the best because their products are so costly.
    I auditioned their wave radio which they advertised as getting "concert hall sound from a radio." Nothing can be further from the truth. It's a mediocre product, at best.
    Like I said, if an automobile manufacturer advertises their audio is a Bose, I will just keep on walking.
    For home audio, Denon runs rings around Bose. Wish they would turn their creative genius to car audio.
  • grandaddygrandaddy Member Posts: 66
    The honda has 197 hp and weighs about 2600 lbs. About the same hp to weight ratio as the mercedes. Kind of embarassing to have this front driver come in ahead of all these high dollar rear drivers.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    All true, but I challenge you on one statement:

    Like I said, if an automobile manufacturer advertises their audio is a Bose, I will just keep on walking.

    Yes, you might do that, but previous posts of yours have suggested that you do not even care about good audio, or even good climate control . . . all you care about is the thrill of DRIVING. ;)

    Anyway, you are right about BOSE . . . most of it is cleverly marketed junk.

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    hey gramps - good to hear from you. It's interesting which cars would display terrific handling capabilities on a track, but at the same token, cars that we would probably NOT want as a daily driver. Lotus also comes to mind . . . a little pocket rocket that would be a blast for a little while, but beat you up on your way to work so badly that you'd have to have a chiropractic adjustment immediately before your first business meeting of the day.

    Regarding the Honda . . . just wait until the serious "tuners" and "tweakers" get a hold of the new '06 Civic Si Coupe, and turn it into one of those tricked-out rice rockets.

    TagMan
  • stevekilburnstevekilburn Member Posts: 359
    I have a certain fondness for Bose and I admire it a lot, even though many of you consider it inferior. I cannot explain it, its just something about this american brand.

    Deaf am I? May be!

    But even walls have ears, so there.
  • stevekilburnstevekilburn Member Posts: 359
    I would not call it junk. In fact, harleys fit that description of yours "cleverly marketed ...." and sell like hot cakes.

    But I would not cross swords on this one. There may be sound systems better than Bose.

    And the more I explore european brands, especially luxury, the more I am convinced there is a lot of hype, but little substance.

    Some like mercedes used to be the real thing, and precious few like porsche are still at the top of their game, but strictly speaking 90% of european luxury is

    "cleverly marketed ....".

    And again, am I high on starbucks, may be, but I wouldn't cross swords on this one too. ;)
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I won't cross swords, but I really have a strong opinion on this one. I do know a lot about music reproduction, but that certainly doesn't give me a more valid opinion then you.

    Good sound is a preference, to a point . . . meaning that there are widely accepted standards as to what is considered accurate reproduction.

    From the subjective side of the equation, some might like Klipsch speakers, for example, and others might still like JBL's. There is no right or wrong.

    Well, except for one other thing . . . Starbucks IS the best coffee (on a large-scale basis), no matter what ANYBODY says. :P

    Take care,

    TagMan
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    I know it sounds illogical because I don't listen to the audio much when driving, but when an auto manufacturer includes Bose as their premium audio and brags about it ( good lord!), it tells me they really didn't do their homework.
    Just creates a negative feeling.
  • stevekilburnstevekilburn Member Posts: 359
    Guys there is too much diversion to sound systems and we need to go back to serious car discussion.

    I am itching for a Benz versus Lexus again. ;)

    lets steer the discussion back to the topic.

    Thanks!
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I know it sounds illogical, but when an auto manufacturer includes Bose as their premium audio, it tells me they didn't do their homework.
    And I start wondering, where else have they cut corners?


    Not at all. They haven't cut other corners.

    It just means that they expect the majority of consumers to react positively enough to the brand name when they see it in the dash.

    Overall, BOSE has good brand recognition even if it does not truly sound as good as other choices. Also, the price that BOSE negotiates with the manufacturers is likely to be aggressive, because it perpetuates their exposure.

    If audio is ultra-critical to a buyer, which often it is not, then the buyer either gets a different vehicle (doubtful, because the car is almost always more important than the audio), or the ultra critical audio buyer goes to a high-end audio shop and changes the darned thing out anyway.

    Most of the time . . . it's left alone as the stock unit.

    TagMan
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    As long as they don't burn the beans!
    Just got back from Wailea and the Starbucks Kona that I had every morning was the best coffee I ever tasted.

    Hve you ever auditioned B & W speakers? Wish they weren't so darn expensive!
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Guys there is too much diversion to sound systems and we need to go back to serious car discussion

    OK, well I had introduced the "performance vs. luxury" theme recently. Some more on that or something new would be fine with me.

    I am itching for a Benz versus Lexus again

    But, NO THANKS on that one!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    TagMan
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    When I sold my 325i to my stepson, the first thing he did was gut the HK audio system and replaced it with what sounded to me like one gigantic subwoofer.
    The ground literally shook when he played it for me.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Noise for noise's sake ain't audio!
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I hate those rolling boom boxes
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Just got back from Wailea

    Close to one of my favorite places in the world . . . Keawakapu beach. Just north towards Kihei at the border of Wailea and Kihei is a gorgeous stretch of beach that has about two dozen private homes on it.

    I spent three years there . . . and I drank plenty of Kona, my all-time favorite, amongst other island beverages. ;)

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    OK, steve, here's a tiny bit of gasoline for your fire.

    Notice that of ALL the suggestions that were made regarding a vehicle that best combined luxury and performance, there was not ONE Lexus mentioned!!!!!

    TagMan
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    This is just a temporary lull.
    it's inevitable that the opposing forces will be locking horns again soon.

    Saw a new Camry the other day. That butt makes the 5 series' look like a Michelangelo.
    Man was that ugly!
    Really hope the new LS looks a lot better than that!
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    I know the area. Spent a lot of time at the Safeway in Kihei.
    Attempted to take the road to Hana with a Subaru Impreza. Talk about twisties!
    But the wife couldn't take the driving with all the curves and elevation changes so we only went half-way.
    Next time, I'll do it myself.
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