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High End Luxury Cars

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  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    Right now, based on pictures, the M45 is the pick.
  • zodiac2004zodiac2004 Posts: 471
    I found the following TCO info from Edmunds - 5 year projected ownership costs.

    audi A8 $85,447
    lexus LS $70,200
    bmw 745i $79,470
    merc s430 $84,300
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    I found the following information on used car values from Autotrader on actual selling prices for 2001 model year A6 4.2 vs. 2001 LS430.

    2001 LS430
    1)44K miles selling for $37K
    2)49K miles selling for $36K

    2001 A6 4.2 Quattro
    40K miles selling for $29K.

    So, I have come to 2 conclusions:
    1) Audi's do not sell for anywhere near sticker, except for maybe the A8, and specialty products such as the S8, S4, S6.
    2) Used car values for LS430's are higher than A6 4.2s.
  • il_62231il_62231 Posts: 2
    Why not just compare the A6 and GS cost to own and resale?
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    A6 4.2Q 49K MSRP

    Edmunds TMV is $47K(I'm shocked, they are to be discounted)

    Total 5yr. cost of ownership: $61K

    BMW 530i
    MSRP 51K, TMV is $49.5K
    Total 5yr. cost of ownership: $55K.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    Another thing, 2000 LS400s with about 20K to 30K more miles are selling for $1K more than 2000 A6 4.2 Quattros. And remember a 2000 LS400 was cheaper than the average 2001 LS430.

    So yes, the A6's resale value is not the best, in fact the BMW 5-series holds it's value better, so does the E-class, and so does the LS.
  • footiefootie Posts: 636
    I know, but every time I see the MB / Taurus in traffic, I notice the similarity right away. Except for a few details, the newest E isn't remotely like its predecessors.

    To me, the primary things that MB did to differentiate the E from the Taurus was to change the window lines a bit, move the rear door line back to meet the window line, have a straighter, more aggressive window line from the rear to front and of course, add two strips of clear plastic to the tail lights. The gas cap is square and there are some trim differences.

    The nose is more different because it had to accomodate the bubble lights and MB grill.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    Here's another example showing the unparalleled resale value of Audi's:

    2000 A6 2.8Qs
    $26K for one with 40K miles

    $22K for one with 38K miles
    Both are certified at Audi dealers.

    2000 GS300
    $27K for one with 38K miles

    $25K for one with 31K miles

    And let's not forget the 2 probably had similar MSRPs when new. And the GS is considered the lame-o car in the Lexus line-up.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    footie,

    YOu know, I really doubt Mercedes-Benz used the Taurus as inspiration for the E-class. If it does look similar, it is probably coincidental.

    Besides, there are soo many styling cues on soo many different cars that are similar. Basically every mass market car has one line or a couple that look to similar to another cars.
  • pablo_lpablo_l Posts: 491
    The updated S-class gets my vote, which surprises even me. I simply think it flows very well in that pic, but tellingly I can't quite recall what the car looks like from the back, I just have a recollection it is far more anonymous like that.

    The Infiniti looks great, too. It'd be very surprising to find it on my list of final candidates should I be on the market for a car right now, but I ought to point out my Infiniti ownership experience in 96 was rather forgettable.

    The Audi looks good except for that damn dark blob of a grille further accentuated by that chrome frame. Very heavy handed stuff, and if I bought one I'd ask a body shop to lose the chrome and paint the lower portion of the grille in body color.

    The Merc is too conservative for my taste, but that's always been what Mercs have been about in the end with the occasional exception of their upper rate coupes and convertibles.

    I find the new BMW designs utterly unattractive, BMW does not need such desperate attention-getting gimmicks - their cars ought to be more subtle and I think the extrovert design language is not going to benefit them mid-term. The angry insect look is downright infantile, I think. And, as stated before, I think it odd that people tore those light to pieces when they showed up in the Aztec, yet with BMW it's visionary and it'll eventually grow on us. Keep dreaming, Bangle, it's way too busy to age well.

    The Caddillac, as stated by others, is way to angular. It's in the BMW school of desperate attention getters that strive too hard to be different, and wind up looking like a middle-aged guy in Dolce&Gabbana teen-wear (if I ever try to pull that off please somebody shoot me).

    The Lex and the Acure are way too anonymous middle sized sedans. They're the Banana Republic white shirt blue tie and khakis equivalent.
  • mbukukanyaumbukukanyau Posts: 200
    Cadillac sort of needs distinctive styling attention to get back in the game. So the styling is appropriate, they need to get away from the Towncar/newyorker/deville luxury among ruins, land yacht, retired senior, Detroit iron, luxo boat, Rental limo, Vegas stretch limo, hearse, Senator Bob Dole, US ambassador to the UN, cold war America look to the mainstream international styling
  • audibobaudibob Posts: 33
    "
    Here's another example showing the unparalleled resale value of Audi's:

    2000 A6 2.8Qs
    $26K for one with 40K miles

    $22K for one with 38K miles
    Both are certified at Audi dealers.

    2000 GS300
    $27K for one with 38K miles

    $25K for one with 31K miles"

    Where do yo get these?
  • lovemyclklovemyclk Posts: 351
    I must say that the reason Toyota is experiencing such terrific performance is the evolution of the Toyota Production and Toyota Management Systems based upon Lean.

    It is as much cultural/socio-economic as technical... even moreso cultural. These concepts have been fine tuned over the past few decades and are now part of Toyota's DNA.

    For the German's to achieve the level of dominance in quality they desire, there will need to be a culture shift in their Automotive sector. They have brilliant automotive engineers encumbered by management practices that have allowed the JDP, etc. rankings to hurt them.

    You can argue design all day long, but quality is quality. People want to own the finest for their hard-earned dollars/euros. "Finest" can be measured as pure luxury, performance, engineering for the dollar, platform solidity or whatever measure you wish. Nothing is worse than the buyer remorse that accompanies buying into a branded image of your favorite mfgr only to be let down by constant quality glitches (MB!).

    When you take a look at the effect of maintenance costs on the bottom lines of the German marques, it will become apparent that they have much room to improve. A serious cultural transformation will be required before the German marques realize the "ultimate" benefits of their engineering and design prowess.

    Toyota/Lexus has simply perfected this model to suit their corporate mission... note their recent profitability news for FY2003. If only Toyota could align their retail channel experience with the quality of their vehicles as Lexus has accomplished.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Man this place is HOT today! Yeah! Burn that mother down!!!!!!!!!
  • lovemyclklovemyclk Posts: 351
    Actually, the Taurus is the design inspiration for the new Buick LaCrosse! Check it out...
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    Try autotrader or any used car website.

    BTW, if you're such a good salesperson you should know that Audi's go thru Auctions for less than it's competition. Isn't that one of the tools you use to appraise trade-ins(ie. auction guides)?

    Are Audi's still selling at MSRP today?
  • audibobaudibob Posts: 33
    "Message #6259 by maxhonda99 Jul 21, 2004 (4:24 pm)
    Here's another example showing the unparalleled resale value of Audi's: 2000 A6 2.8Qs $26K for ...
     
     Message #6257 Used car value by maxhonda99 Jul 21, 2004 (4:13 pm)
    Another thing, 2000 LS400s with about 20K to 30K more miles are selling for $1K more than 2000 A6 ..."

    "Try autotrader or any used car website.

    BTW, if you're such a good salesperson you should know that Audi's go thru Auctions for less than it's competition. Isn't that one of the tools you use to appraise trade-ins(ie. auction guides)?

    Are Audi's still selling at MSRP today? "

    Once more...you have stated numbers I can't verifiy. Where did you get those numbers???? Those specifically.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,822
    Don't forget tonight's member-to-member chat - it's open mic night, so come and discuss whatever's on your mind.

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  • warthogwarthog Posts: 216
    You must not have read many of the posts. The Lexus point of view is that the car's reliability, ride, comfort and appointments qualify it for the category. Seems to me they're right. The real fuss, ad nauseum, is whether it's better to have handling and performance (BMW) or style/status (MB) or the Lexus qualities. To date, no minds have been changed.
  • Warthog:

    Well..... the audi guy is starting to convince me....
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