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High End Luxury Cars

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  • navigator89navigator89 Posts: 1,080
    Thanks for posting those pics they're great!

    I'm a little disappointed in MB. Why is the new S Class dash such a copy of the current BMW 7? The center stack, and the navigation display scream "BMW 7 series"

    Other than that, it seems like a nice car. However, from the pics it seems as if the rear seat is too low off the ground. And finally, why doesn't the new S Class have a wood steering wheel, the way all Lexuses and most Cadillacs do?
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Interesting. I agree about the wheel arches, especially the rear ones where it meets the rear door in that wierd little crease. The interior is so close to the BMW 7...what were they thinking there?

    "And finally, why doesn't the new S Class have a wood steering wheel, the way all Lexuses and most Cadillacs do?"

    Wood steering wheels dont match well with agressive driving. You'll notice there's no wood wheel in the 7 or A8 either. For the record, not every Lexus comes with a wood wheel. Leather wheels are optional on the GS, and Im pretty sure the new IS is leather only.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    And finally, why doesn't the new S Class have a wood steering wheel, the way all Lexuses and most Cadillacs do?

    Actually it does, but its optional...and its an acquired taste just like in Lexus' and Cadillacs. Wooden steering wheels are very tacky imo. Audi caved in and now offers one in which the entire wheel is covered in wood on the A8L W12. Yuck.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Not sure what they were thinking, but at least you do have the option of not using Comand for most things, per the initial writeup. The design overal is something I'll have to see in person to make a final judgement so there is some hope. The CLS and E-Class were the same way for me when I first saw their initial pics.

    A few more pics:

    image

    A short wheelbase model:

    image

    The hidden phone keypad:

    image

    Gearshift moves to the steering wheel like the new M and R-Class vehicles:

    image

    The Panorama roof:

    image

    A good shot:

    image

    M
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    The S… I’m already worn out by the spy shots so this is anticlimactic. It’s not ugly, it works, but is extremely disappointing. Comments on those me-too fenders will be in the billions. Another poorly-executed detail is the tumor that houses the instrument cluster. Finally, it needs a kink in the C-column. I am compelled to say it again… it’s a giant RL with Pathfinder fenders. Will we ever see something remotely close to a knockout design from anybody again? Major opportunity here for the LS to kick butt.

    About the LS sketch… don’t get your hopes up, that’s not it, even if it’s an authentic sketch from Lexus. I highly doubt it will have those perfect low-slung proportions. Paldi, good observation on the Caddy motifs.

    Oac… sorry to hear about your wife’s accident. Really glad to hear she was not hurt.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I was waiting on your comments. I think the design would be a lot better without those fenders too. Naturally darker colors help, but that is an excuse for a poor detail. Truly good looking cars aren't color-dependent.

    I didn't expect you to think the S was a knockout design, because you don't even like the Aston-Martin DB9 so I don't know what it would take for a design to be a knockout in your book. ;)

    M
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    Mercedes went from 110% perfect in terms of exterior styling for the current S-class to completely ugly in one year!!! Fire that designer!!!
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    "...I don't know what it would take for a design to be a knockout in your book."

    Hmm, I thought my comments on the older DB7 although brief were quite favorable. Want me to be more effusive? That's the car I'd like to take to Wimbledon, from which I would tote my strawberries and cream, and bow to her friggin' majesty ;-)
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Also, I may do a very favorable review of the Quattroporte. There are some really sweet lines on that baby.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,844
    Just crap about "driving people wild with envy" that would appeal to marginal people seeking acceptance. I thought the campaign was nuts.

    A couple of ads I saw this week in both print and TV were the exact opposite. They talked about the thousands of patents that MB holds, the great engineering, the 111 year long track record, etc. etc.

    Emotional versus Rational - the ads work on different people. You don't have to like the former - that's why they created the latter.

    It's called marketing.

    And I wouldn't be surprised that the majority of car sales are based on emotions instead of rationalization.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,687
    Unfortunately you can only go down from perfection or near perfection. That's what the 2003-2006 S was - IMO - design wise - particularly in sport trim. It's hard for me to imagine what this new car will look like in sports trim. The side and rear design just doesn't lend itself to it. The wheel arches - where did they come from and why - almost make the car look pregnant especially in SWB form. The trunk adds to this feeling. As far as I'm concerned Bangle is the guy to blame for these bulging car stylistic developments. Let's just call them the Bangle bulges. What happened to great symetry which is what the existing S has? This is not a car that will look good in swb - IMO. Side profile looks real bad. Looking angular from above and from front to rear (burgundy color photo) - car seems to retain enough of the current S to look good. But this and the front are probably its best views and again because it is more of the current design view. But that side profile looks bad. Maybe in person will be different but I have a feeling that wheel bulge will look worse in person. I agree with designman's view - it still works, but it's a big dropoff based on these photos. Door is wide open for Lexus.

    Interior looks improved, and the DVD system in the headrest should be standard or available on all lux cars now. Lexus is going there as well with the new model and possibly the 2006 car from what I know.

    It will be interesting to hear what an existing S-class owner or planned buyer thinks. Of course, merc1's views - after more careful analysis - will be very interesting reads.

    Designman - I think that is a sport version of the LS that is posted. The standard car probably loses some or all of the low ground frame. But who knows for sure - they are promising a very agrressive car and based on these MB photos, it couldn't come at a better time for Lexus - assuming it's true.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Also, I'm still not buying the column shifter. I didnt like it in the 7, and I dont like it in any of the new Benzes. Taxi cabs have column shifters. So do minivans. Cheap minivans. There's just nothing luxurious about a column shifter.
  • jstylejstyle Posts: 129
    I've been talking to my dealer about going from my current E500 to the new S class and putting in a deposit for a purchase. I now know that I am very secure in my decision today to go with the 2006 Audi A8L....Perhaps not the most sporty design but nothing beats the interior and now with a bad 7series rip off interior the Audi looks incredible. It is even better priced with the rear seat entertaiment for the kids and all the options. Put the right wheels on and it is great looking.

    I am very sad to say that my E500 is the last of the great looking Mercedes.
  • bobcatmanbobcatman Posts: 51
    Ahh, I guess the designers were lookin at the Mazda RX8 too much. Those fender flares are very similar to the racy RX8. Problem is that they look glued on like a cheap 33K GM SUV while the Mazda design just flows agressively integrated. The maroon one just looks tacky, too aggressive for overall shape. Oh well time for the big guns fromTokyo to clean up this next round ..That future Lexus sketch looks like it was done by a 6th grade designer-wannabe lol. I can assure all that it will look far better than that.
  • paldipaldi Posts: 210
    Comparing the maroon photo to this Phaeton...

    image

    image

    I think I like my big 2004 VW better. Just needs a 2006 update on the grill and wheels.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Well I'm not surprised that you don't like the new design. I'm not too big on it myself, but part of that is because I don't take car design changes too well, especially when the outgoing car was such a good looking design. I'll need to see the car in person before I can make a final judgement. I didn't like the CLS either until I saw it so there is still hope with me.

    The reception to the new S-Class has been far warmer on other boards, but everyone is up in arms over those wheel arches, which to me are the only exterior flaw, or at least until I actually see the car. The interior quality looks to be on the level of Audi/VW, again this based only on looking at it.

    That LS sketch - that honestly looks good to you? To me, again imo, looks like a Japanese Cadillac/Lincoln and is like totally forgettable like the 1995 LS. I think its far to early to base anything on such a sketch though.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Well I don't think they did it for style. German cars are about form following function and in such a class of car as the S/7 nobody is using the shifter anyway, so I personally don't see what the big deal is. Ditto for something like the M-Class. I would have a problem with an E-Class or 5-Series with a colum shifter, but on a S-Class, not a problem to me. It wasn't don't to be luxurious, it was done for function, plus they aren't nearly the same design as in a cheap minvan.

    I wouldn't be surprised if Lexus does the same with the next LS. Am I reading correctly where they're coming up with a 7-speed tranny for the next LS too? Lexus might not do the Idrive/MMI/Comand Controller thing, but I wouldn't be surprised if the shifter moves.

    M
  • pablo_lpablo_l Posts: 491
    Add me to those who think it a very unimaginative and borderline clumsy design. The European design advatage fading fast with the current designers...

    http://www.autobild.de/projektor/projektor.php?artikel_id=9008&pos=1
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I dont think it will. The big reason for the move in the Benzes was the knob controller right? (or the ML's "cup holders" while it waits for a knob) I would be shocked if Lexus went along with the iDrive bandwagon, and if there's no knob, I dont see a reason to move the shifter. What would an extra gear have anything to do with that? I'm expecting an interior similar to the style that the GS and now IS have started, just with an extra 500% dose of fancy powder. The traditional gated style shifter should be right where it always is.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Well we'll see. I asked about the tranny because they seem to be following Mercedes in more than one area, not anything to do with the shifter location.

    M
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Well, I think what Lexus is trying to prove is the old "anything they can do, we can do better". For the LS to be more attractive than the S-class would be quite a victory for them.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Well, I think what Lexus is trying to prove is the old "anything they can do, we can do better". For the LS to be more attractive than the S-class would be quite a victory for them.

    Well if something like that happens it will be a two firsts. An attractive LS and a LS that looks better than a Mercedes.

    The new S would be so much better looking without the swollen wheel arches... :sick:

    M
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,687
    Interesting how both cars look similar in that angle but when you look at the rest it's hardly a copy job.

    Merc - the arches and the trunk design both have to go. The car would look great without both but that is because what is left is more of a replica of the current car. The interior looks a lot better (material wise excluding the BMW copying) and more fitting for a car like the S. Maybe they should have just focused on that interior. That, updated tech changes and improved reliability is what the car needed. Messing too much with re-styling should have been the low rung on the totem pole. Do you know the length of the LWB and SWB models?

    LS - Way too early and it's only a sketch. I dislike the notchback - it's as unnecessary as the wheel arches on the S. But I like the direction its going in.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    "Well we'll see. I asked about the tranny because they seem to be following Mercedes in more than one area, not anything to do with the shifter location. "

    I would hardly calling adding gears in a transmission, *copying*, which is what you are implying.
  • loslobos71loslobos71 Posts: 28
    Is AWD (4MATIC) going to be on the 2007 S Class? It isnt mentioned anywhere in either Edmunds's review or automobile mag's.
  • jstylejstyle Posts: 129
    Why did Mercedes copy the 7 series interior so blantently!!???? Look at the door panels not to mention the dash. Also the photos that show the stitching around the panels is probably the all leather/alcantera S600 top model and per MB lately the main production models like the S500 will have plastic panels and not the leather (or it's a $5000 option.)

    Finally I hope someone puts the Maybach and this car side by side. It looks you are paying $200K for nothing but a better interior with the Mayback now. Even though I never liked it in the first place. Take away the tacked on wheel wells and I can't tell the difference.

    Anyone seen a AMG version yet. Perhaps that will make it look better??
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,687
    Maybe they want you to think you are getting a great value here, hence Maybach linkage. Of course that would destroy the Maybach - which from what I can tell isn't doing so well anyway. Maybe another intent is to re-design the Maybach in the near future. But you can't have a car like an $85K S-class masquerading as a $350K Maybach. Similar designs may work at the C-S class levels but to link it all the way to the penthouse level of the Maybach is sick. People aren't that foolish.
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Posts: 1,150
    Excellent point. Different strokes, different folks. What do the lawyers say, "if you can't win on the facts, then argue on emotions?"
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    The most distinguishing feature to me, so far, looking at the new S pics are the hollowed out headlights. That, and the ugly wheel arches... yuck ! But overall, methinks the new S interior is actually a beautiful work of art. Well laid out and clean. Like everyone else have noted, its got some BMW copy in the dash design. Spartan.... just like the new e90. Is this a new design trend towards *simplicity* ? I would take a *normal* arched/curved dash meeting the shifter column, rather than a disconnected design as in the new S (and new Bimmer).

    LS sketch is going to be close to the original with a few touches left out. What is intriguing is if Lexus were coming out with 3 models - LS460 (base), LS500, and LS600h. That would appear likely in the plan, but I am not sure if this is going to happen. Imagine an LS460 with no S430/745i to compete against. I don't suppose MB wants to put up a 6-cylinder S350 against an 8-cylinder LS460, or would they ? The LS500 will go head-on with the new S550/750iL, and the LS600h going against the S600/760iL. And of course, the Lexus GT with the V10 motor (LF-A concept) will battle it out with the SL roadster. Cannot wait for 2006 to come for the battle royale ahead for this class of luxury sedans....
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Merc - the arches and the trunk design both have to go. The car would look great without both but that is because what is left is more of a replica of the current car. The interior looks a lot better (material wise excluding the BMW copying) and more fitting for a car like the S. Maybe they should have just focused on that interior. That, updated tech changes and improved reliability is what the car needed. Messing too much with re-styling should have been the low rung on the totem pole.

    Yeah, I'm pretty much with you on the fender arches. I didn't like them on the M-Class, and still don't unless you get the 19-inch wheels, but on the S they are more than likely a mistake, unless you get the car in a darker color, which looks a lot better. An age-old trick, darker colors hide flaws and until now Mercedes' designs weren't ever color dependent. If a Mercedes doesn't look good in their signature "Brilliant Silver" we have a problem. Yeah the interior detailing is amazing. There are posts on GCF in which some say a former Audi interior designer now works for Mercedes. I don't know if that is true, but the interior detailing of the new S simply trounces the old car. I guess they took the complaints about interior quality very seriously.

    The dimensions, new vs. old:

    Vehicle length:
    5076/5206 mm = + 33/43 mm

    Vehicle width:
    1871 mm = + 16 mm

    Vehicle height:
    1473 mm = + 29 mm

    Wheelbase:
    3035/3165 mm = +70/80 mm

    {Source Article}

    They stretched the car a bit in every which way. It will be a while before all the details are out about the AMG versions and the S450. I probably won't get to see the car in person until Jan. at the Detroit Autoshow.

    M
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