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High End Luxury Cars



  • Merc:

    Were are compairing the 1993 Allante with the 1993 SL...Something you seem to be afraid to do.

    1)The car had the Northstar engine with 290 to 295 HP.
    2)It had the advantage of being the fastest FWD car on earth...Was ideal for a touring car in the northern parts of the country.
    3)The top was expensive and well engineered NOTE: you could also get it with a hard top option.
    4)The 93 Allante we are discussing had a build quality comparable to the 93 Mercedes 500 SL as evidenced by the data I have posted from Edmonds.
    5)In 1993 (the yr. we are reviewing) the 500SL sold 1700+ units and the Allante sold 6700...hard to make the case that nobody bought it.
    6)The car sold for $40,000 less then the 500SL. Shipping those bodies in by 747 didn't seem to deminish the Allante's price advantage.

    Even on paper the 93 Allante was more technically advanced then the 500 was more practical because of the advanced traction system and fwd
    and the massave trunk (when was not made smaller when the top was down) (even had a pass through from the trunk) and storage. The SL was a fine car but as you have stated was outdated (and looked it) and was just not as good as the ALLANTE in 93. I am sure it was updated in later yrs. (at least I hope so)

    The fact that the SL was an established prestige make and only managed to out sell the Allante by 3,000 units over those years is not a very impressive argument for your side.

    Find the consumer report link or cut and paste...I will have to see it for the 1993 model year....Note I believe Allante rated above the Mercedes in a yr. prior to 93 in addition to it's obvious superiority in 93. Perhaps 1990 was that yr...

    Never said I did drive all those model years...your method of attempting to make your point is to jump from model and year to different models and years, rather then make a straight compairson...I am sticking to the 93 model year in the Allante and the Mercedes 500SL.

    It is true putting a lot of HP into fwd was very creative and innovative ...The fact that no one else COULD do it is a testiment to good old American engineering....IT WORKED GREAT. The Car is classically beautiful even today.

    Don't care about the 1990 SL we are compairing the 93 models...No more bait and switch..
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    I thought you said you were going to let this thing go? Yet you keep bringing it up.

    "It is true putting a lot of HP into fwd was very creative and innovative ...The fact that no one else COULD do it is a testiment to good old American engineering....IT WORKED GREAT. The Car is classically beautiful even today."

    How is putting a V8 for FWD duty creative? The only difference between this and most other FWD cars was that they had a max of 6-cylinders. It's not a big deal, nor is it creative, just because you fit a V8 under the hood! And it's not that "no else COULD do it", it is that no one else WANTED to do it. The luxury car class has always been about RWD, the only difference is that it took GM nearly 2 decades to figure it out and is now finally switching to RWD.

    Personally, I don't think the Allante was all that good looking back then to begin with and was no match for the Benz SL500/320/600, which still look absolutely beautiful today, 15 years after introduction.

    "The SL was a fine car but as you have stated was outdated (and looked it) and was just not as good as the ALLANTE in 93. I am sure it was updated in later yrs. (at least I hope so)"

    The SL was outdated? Please stop! The SL500 didn't even become outdated in 1998, which is why it was still selling strongly at the end of it's life-cycle vs. the Allante which entered car heaven only a few years after introduction. The SL in the same body style lasted for over a decade.
  • Max:

    It is obvious that people want to keep discussing this issue...Including you...when people stop posting on this issue I will also...I am only responding to others.

    Nobody else did do it...Nobody else could do it..Cadallic did it and created the fastest FWD car in the world.

    Looks can be subjective..We obviously disagree about the Allante's looks.

    Cadillac wanted to keep producing the Allante...a new GM CEO took it out of production...I believe it was a mistake. The Allante was in the same body for it's 7 yr. production run. It was always more beautiful then the SL..In it's time.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Okay, let's draw the line right here.

    No more posting about the Allante - that seems to be what folks SAY they want even if it is not what they are doing.

    So let's all agree to move on now.
  • motownusamotownusa Posts: 836
    The only car produced by Toyota that has a V12 engine is the Century. The 4.3L V8 engine is the top of the line engine for the Crown Majesta. The Century is too stodgy to be considered a High performance Luxury Car. The 5.0L V12 engine in the Century only produces 275 Hp due to Japanese law that restricts Hp to 275. However, at nearly $100K, the Century is the most expensive Japanese made car.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    Thanks - I get the two cars confused.
  • I made the mistake of shopping at three dealerships. Two within 100 miles, and one in town. Saturday, I drove 90 miles with the two trades to finalize a deal, and the MB I was purchasing had a dead battery. They wanted me to do the paperwork on a "dead" vehicle that I had never driven. It was on the showroom floor.

    The local dealer is giving my grief about buying out of town, but they have less selection and aren't as generous with the trade-in allowance.

    What should be a fun process, is not.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    "Japanese law that restricts Hp to 275" That law doesnt exist anymore. If the Century is still only making 275hp, its because Toyota hasnt bothered to unrestrict the engine. The Japanese have been playing games around their own HP caps for quite a long time, with Lancer Evos and WRXs in reality producing well over 300hp, and I think they figured it was about time to just give up the "your not fooling anybody" charade already.
  • sapparosapparo Posts: 68
    More pics. of the Crown Majesta, same engine as the LS. Styling is somewhat stodgy. Rear trunk looks like the 7 series toned down. Interiors are super plush, check out the swiveling buckets. Car and Driver calls them a "drunken orgy of gadgets".

  • pablo_lpablo_l Posts: 491
    Business Week's latest edition has an article on this. Toyota gaining in 8th, Mercedes staying put at 11th, BMW narrowly ahead of Honda and Ford at 17th. For what it's worth.
  • scott:

    I flew 1500 miles to get the best buy on my LS no problem with my local dealer...and...It was a lot of fun buying it. Lexus is known for having terrific dealerships. Maybe it would be fun..Just to drive one.
  • I like it...there is no such thing as too many gadgets...AS LONG AS THEY ALL WORK
  • Where exactly does the Crown Majesta fit in with the line? Is it above or below the LS430? It looks smaller than the LS in my eyes...
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Its hard to tell, Toyota has SO many JDM cars, I probably am only aware of maybe 1\10 of them.
  • sapparosapparo Posts: 68
    This was pulled from an article written in 2000. The black car Royal above is similar to the Lexus GS and share the same engine/drive train. This has the all new 4wd system that the next GS gets here.

    "There are 3 versions of Crown - Majesta, Royal and Athlete. The Athlete is the most sporty, with stiffest suspension setup. Majesta is most luxurious, powered by a 280 hp V8. It also has longer wheelbase. Royal runs middle of the road and is usually the best seller among them. No matter which version, handling is far beyond imagination. Gone is the traditional soft suspension setup, which is replaced with firmer springing and damping. As a result, steering response and body control are greatly improved. Although it is still regarded as comfort-bias by European standard, it is already more driver-bias than other domestic rivals, including Nissan Gloria. In particular, it rolls less and steer with more feel than the Nissan.

    Although the range-topping Majesta is powered by Lexus뭩 4-litre V8, most other Crowns are likely to be ordered with 3.0 inline-6. This 24-valver is actually the same as Supra and Lexus GS300. No matter with or without direct-injection, it output 220 horsepower and 217 lbft of torque. As in Lexus GS, it is silky smooth and quiet. Predictably, Toyota provides no option for manual gearbox, but there are two electronic automatic for choose: 4-speed automatic is smoother; 5-speed Super ECT (with Tiptronic style manual override mode) is quicker."
  • livinbmwlivinbmw Posts: 120
    If the local dealer is giving you grief than tell them to get competitive on your trade figures and do a dealer locate on the car that you want or just pass on the deal.

    Some cars are going to be dead on showrooms. The salesman should have know that you were coming and had the thing standing tall and ready to ride. Hopefully, this is less likely to happen at a premium car dealer but it happens. Have them put a brand new battery in it anyway, but that shouldn't be a problem.

    So, you drove 90 miles with two cars? I can't hardly believe that they weren't savvy enough to figure out some way to make you happy and make the deal happen after you went to so much effort.
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804

    re your post 6033 (I was on an extended vacation, sorry for the late reply), I think that modern diesels are indeed very impressive...compared to older deisels and current gas ICEs. But unless someone is doing 100% highway driving, hybrids are going to be better, imho. Read this: 48278220.xml?banew and also the Automobile magazine article from 1-2 months back.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Ive read that some of the older first gen Prius and Insight type hybrids are prone to more engine problems than their gas counterparts, but this is apparently something Honda and Toyota have gotten under control with their newest Prius and Civic hybrids. The article also mentioned that VW's diesels were having problems as well and that this was "curious, as diesel tech has been around much longer." There was no mention of VW QC, or should I say, total lack thereof.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Primo Sindone (Paul Vitti's archrival) played by Chazz Palminteri. Same movie – Analyze This.

    And now from Analyze That...
    "Paul, I think we've had enough sahzeech for one day."

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