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High End Luxury Cars



  • livinbmwlivinbmw Posts: 120
    740 a "junker"? Junker?

    All guys don't buy "penthouse" type vehicles with reliability as the key motive. In fact, the ones that are willing to pay more for the 'bimmer would probably contend that there buying motives are met by the seven's road manners and over-all ride and drive qualities. Maybe, that's why they sell for more....because the driver after reliability and return on the precious dollar is willing to pay less than the guy that just wants a great driving car that he feels great about.

    I think that just about anyone that really has a lick of sense about vehicles would not contend that BMW builds any "junk" but you've pulled it off and sound brilliant in such a bold statement, truly brilliant.

    I hope that you're not one of those 13,000 customers that have to deal with transmission recall on the '04 LS. What a shame. Shame on TOYOTA.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    As usual, you're posting funny stuff.

    Remember when BMW had all of those failed 7-series 4.0L V8s that they had to replace for customers?

    Let's not forget Lexus is still #1 in quality and reliability. How many years in a row was that?

    BTW, you think the LS430's lower price has anything to do with prestige? Have you also noticed how much it's price has gone up in 15 years vs. how much the 7-series price has gone up? The LS400 used to be $40K, now it reaches $70K. the 2000 LS400 topped out at $60K, and yet this more expensive LS430 can be decked out to $70K+ and is selling alot better than the 2nd gen. LS400. I bet the next generation LS will be even closer in price to the 7-series and still sell well.

    The Paseo and PRevia. wow! coming up with ugly Toyotas from a decade ago! You're staying current!

    How about those Bangled BMW's that soo many people think are ugly. Amazing how BMW can do no wrong yet everyone else can.

    And it is quite obvious not everyone is looking for performance as much as you like to point out. How many people actually buy a BMW for it's handling prowess or steering feel? I bet you not that percentage is nowhere near 100%.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Come on folks - this discussion is supposed to be about the marques. Can't we just talk about what we like about what they are doing and what we wish they would do better?

    There isn't any reason for this conversation to continually devolve into this petty "my brand is better than your brand, so there" conversation. There are plenty of places all over the Town Hall where that kind of conversation goes on all the time.

    This discussion was always supposed to be on a higher level than that. Can we try to get back there?

    I challenge all of you to name one thing about the brand of your heart that you wish would be done better. And then pick another brand that you really would not choose in your heart of hearts and name one thing you like that it does. And then maybe really discuss differing opinions - listen, think and respond thoughtfully and respectfully without the knee-jerk antagonistic stuff that keeps overtaking us.

    Give it a try. Let's get this conversation onto a different path; one that is rewarding and productive. Work with me here. Go to another more appropriate discussion for the head-butting, okay?
  • livinbmwlivinbmw Posts: 120
    one thing that I don't like about BMW.....hmmmm Cupholders are bad..... the batteries seem too be not to good...... I don't like that the 3 series coupes do not have full frame windows on the doors. That really bugs me.

    One thing that I do like that Lexus does is the touch screens for the Nav.
  • warthogwarthog Posts: 216
    Thanks from me too. After all, we're not married to these automakers or their products. Or are we? Is there some autoeroticism going on here?
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Good start - I've heard/read that about BMWs cupholders for a long time. Of course the theory is that only Americans care about eating and drinking in their cars. I object to that. I am an American and I would not THINK of letting anyone eat or drink in my car and could care less about the cupholders! :)

    I've seen criticisms of other vehicles for not having the full-framed windows. Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that true of the ES 300/330? Is this a function of the lower end vehicle of the upper end marque, seems like it might be. I don't like it either.

    What's with the batteries?
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,664
    Do you watch "Everybody loves Raymond"? Brad Gilbert is the closest thing I've seen to Jackie Gleason. No one can ever duplicate those great Honeymooner expressions he had but Brad has some great ones of his own.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    "I challenge all of you to name one thing about the brand of your heart that you wish would be done better. And then pick another brand that you really would not choose in your heart of hearts and name one thing you like that it does.

    Hmmm..that would be Mercedes-Benz of course, reliability being the thing I wish they did better.

    Lexus is the one I wouldn't choose and about the only the I did admire about them is their stellar reliability record.

  • lEXUS IS THE BEST LUXURY SEDAN IN THE WORLD...It would be even better however if it had all wheel drive.

    Mercedes is the most overated car in the world, but it is pretty, and their string around the finger aren't I pretty commerical is very nice. They also deserve credit for their many safety innovations in years past.
  • anthonypanthonyp Posts: 1,857
    I surely like the German ads better than the Asian ones...I also think the Chrysler 300 is quite appealing (only seen it on the outside)Furthermore , as we own both brands, they both break, usually electrical...Furthermore I like to hear(read) all the different opinions even if I disagree. Tony
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I think the Lexus should be worried with Mercedes stating to improve quality. BMW should make as bold a statement as that. The only thing the Japanese have over the Germans is reliability, but my experience with Japanese cars is they are similiar to German in build quality and reliability but don't have that drivers feel.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    For some reason, BMW 5 series and 7 series sales really slumped in July.

    - 5 series -
    July 2003: 5313
    July 2004: 2668

    - 7 series -
    July 2003: 1595
    July 2004: 876

    Those are pretty steep losses. Especially for the 5 series, a 50% drop in July sales is pretty significant. All the more considering that the 5 is a NEW model. And the new M, GS, RL, A6, and STS haven't even come out yet!

    Maybe it's a one time blip, I don't know. Hopefully it'll force BMW to reconsider its pricing strategy.
  • I wish Mercedes would get it's act together, and produce cars with at least equal quality of the Japanese. Autoweek has an article about a new quality offensive Jurgen Hubbert has set up. Here is the link if you want to read it. _code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=05810537

    I admire Toyota for taking a huge chance on Lexus and succeeding thouroughly. Lexus totally changed the Luxury car market.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,664
    Racked up $2.6bln net profit in the first quarter - up 29% from a year ago - even in the face of a currency rate going against them. Vehicle sales up in every world market and skyrocketing in Asia. Those ugly cars have one heck of a market. Sometimes people on this board remind me of movie critics that deadpan movies that make $500mln. but love the ones that make $25mln. Who's really got it right.

    Kdshapiro - saying you are going to improve quality and accomplishing it are two different things. The way they said it had a bit too much of a marketing ring to me. They also said they were going to do something about quality a year ago (someone lower in the command chain said it) and quality worsened. Common sense tells me that with Toyota projecting to rack up $13bln (probably conservative) in profits this fiscal year, with Lexus widening its US sales lead while raising prices, with rapid Asian gains and with new hybrid engines around the corner that will revolutionalize the lux segment - MB and the Germans are probably a lot more worried about Lexus than vice-versa. I would be if I were them as would any responsible business person. Toyota is a juggernaut right now - rolling over everything in front of it.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Wish Toyota would buy Microsoft… then we would have ugly computers that work seamlessly.

    I don't watch sitcoms. They all seem the same to me… templated formula for comedy. Also, I can't stomach the canned laughter with its repetitious predictable rhythm. Honeymooners were recorded in front of live audiences and were frequently ad libbed… like when Ralph went to the masquerade party as the Man From Space and his "denaturizer " button fell off that hilariously cobbled costume. I guess sitcom creators use the Comedy Wizard in the MS Office suite ;-)

    kd... we have Bud Light etc. and are now entering the era of Bangle Light.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    Of course Mercedes will get it's act together. They have to. Their recent quality and reliability slips are showing in their sales and subsequently advertising.

    Notice how all of a sudden Mercedes is showing advertisments touting how many cars this person has had and that person has had and how many miles people have.

    They still make some excellent cars, but them improving quality would only make the market that much more competitive which is good for everyone.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289 do realize Dell, HP, make computers not Microsoft.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    I noticed the BMW numbers also for the 5-series especially. I wonder what's up with that. They were down drastically for the month, might just be some production issues due to end of model year.
  • topspin628topspin628 Posts: 373
    Just picked up my new LS430 with Mod Lux and smart key. I had been leaning toward S430 4Matic as I prefer its looks and am actually a bit bias toward German type ride but in the end could not justify 350-400 per month difference on lease. MB was giving great factory incentive of 6K back and the dealers are selling at invoice but the lease is not as attractive and the car still sells for about 10K more in the market place.

    I think I got a good deal at end of month on LS (about 6500 off).

    I am Very happy with my choice. I really wanted Blue Tooth, and the ML system and those 2 items alone make the Lexus the clear winner for me.

    I was able to down load my phone book from my Sony Ericsson phone in about 3 minutes once we figured it out (call customer care from Sony if you need help). I bit the bullet and went for the factory installed Sat. Radio which is too expensive but my 20 year old son said it best, "This is awesome!"

    The ride is sublime and the acceleration is terrific.

    The dealer was not what a luxury experience should be about, however. The negotiations were "old school" meaning full of voodoo numbers and old tricks ("we made a mistake on the calculation, you must take delivery by tomorrow"), high pressure tactics, double teaming etc. Very disappointing I almost walked but it was the car I wanted, so I bit the bullet. Next time I will not even enter a dealership to purchase a Lexus but do all via phone and fax. BMW and MB were much nicer experiences.

      Same with delivery experience. Sat radio was not activated by dealer and when I called to do so was told that dealer needs to do it so that I can save on activation fee and free first month. No luxury aspect in picking up car. Just sat in lot with salesperson and he went over car with me. They were delivering many cars that day and it was a bit stressfull as they were running way behind schedule and I had to wait a bit. We did not finish and I had to go back the next day.

    But love the car so far.

    One thing I don't understand is the shift options.
    If you put the button in power mode does that hold the gears longer for a sporty type of drive?
    By putting lever to left I know you can "manually shift" but I don't really get how the ranges (1-6) work or why and when you'd use).
    With gear shift lever to right (normal position) will the car use gears 1-6?

      Maybe someone can explain better than the manual.

    Thanks for everyone's help and input in the past which was useful information in making my decision to "join the club".
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Oh jeez, sue me on a trivial debatable point. Yes, I could have phrased it another way. I think you know what I mean though. Actually, I would never argue with my editors on that one. Good point. :-)
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