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High End Luxury Cars

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  • Is there a JDPowers info site that I can look up the reliability of the 1998 JAG VDP? Any help would be appreciated.
  • bwhbwh Posts: 76
    Just don't put a lot of stock into what that survey says. For instance, Jaguar used to be well know for being problematic. Still they have strong repeat business because of the type of market they cater to. So an owner of a shoddy 1990 VDP who trades into a nice new V8 VDP will be astonished by the improvement in quality. This will be reflected in the survey, lets just say they were a little jaded from previous experience. Now if a Lexus owner has any trouble, even the smallest item, it is likely to be reflected in the survey. What I am trying to illustrate is that the survey is not as reliable as one would hope due to auto brand loyalty. That said, I would not buy ANY of the cars listed without a service contract of some type, the factory backed ones being the best.
  • arcoatesarcoates Posts: 221
    We are having a great discussion in the Seville STS- Two board about RWD vs. FWD, and what a true luxury car in this class should have. Because the STS is switching to RWD in the near future, some of the diehards prefer the FWD. Check it out, it's interesting.~A.R.

    P.S. Webmaster, I hope this is okay to do, and not breaking the rules.
  • I am considering buying an XJ series Jag - say from 1995 to 1998.
    (1) What advice can you give me ? XJ6 or XJ8 ?
    Models to avoid ? What mileage range would be advisable ?
    (2) What about the "unreliablility" of Jags - true or false for these model years ?
    (3) What extended warrenty is best among those available ?
    (4) Any other advice to someone "new to Jag" ?

    Thanks !
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Oh you mean within the Toyota empire, Lexus kept the technology for themselves. Yes that's true, luxury brand first. I'll be the first on to admit that Mercedes and all other German cars (Porsche is a disgrace) are way behind on in-car entertainment. Mercedes still doesn't offer an in-dash CD player standard, which quite frankly is silly and absurd for a 2001 model car. Remember I'm probably their 2nd biggest fan on all of Edmunds. Are you saying that Lexus has traction control first? I think it went like this, Lexus was first in the U.S. on the 1990 LS400, but the 500SL (also new for 1990) had it also, but in Europe only, it came to the U.S. on the 500SL for 1991. Cadillac *may have* had it in 1989 on the Allante. Not sure, but possible. You can't expect BMW's profit margins to be as high as Toyota's, look at the size of the 2 companies. As long as BMW does what they do best, build the best sporting luxury cars on earth they'll be ok, if not bursting at the seams with cash like you say Toyota is. You have to remember that Germans are very stubborn, they rarely if ever sell cars at a loss. And Mercedes' prices are only competitive at base, with options Mercedes' cars are still ususually thousands more than their nearest competitor, excluding BMW. Yes they have more standard equipment now, and they are cheaper than their direcet predessors, but they'll never cost less than a Japanese car. So far there hasn't been any technology from MB implemented on any Chrysler products, if that is what you meant by MB having another "platform" to spread costs too. Otherwise they've always spreaded techlogoy from the bigger cars to the smaller ones.

    M
  • bwhbwh Posts: 76
    Never intended to entertain you with anything other than race car moves. I never even listen to the CD player in my Porsche when its on the track where it belongs.
  • arcoatesarcoates Posts: 221
    Personally, I would opt for the XJ6. There wasn't a huge improvement switching from the I6 to the V8. To compare, the I6 had 245 bhp, and 289 ft.lb. of torque. The V8 has 290 bhp, and 290 ft.lb. of torque. So, in day to day driving, where torque is more important, they are equal.

    The body styles are nearly identical, the XJ6's will be cheaper, interiors almost the same (I prefer the XJ6 interior design to the XJ8 actually). The XJ8's will come with more standard equipment, but any Jag buyer would load it to the gills anyway.

    We got our XJ6 used, as you will, and it had the "Select Jaguar Warranty" I think it's called. It's whatever Jaguar gives to it's used cars, that's the name. And it pretty much covers everything.

    I would say go for a 1996-97 XJ6. It's always better not to buy the first year of a car. I would also say to go for the Vanden Plas, as the rear-seat room in the standard wheelbase is pitiful.

    As for the reliability problems, Ford had owned Jaguar for a number of years when these models came out, and they worked out most of the bugs.

    They are great cars to buy used. The mileage isn't really an issue, since the engines are engineered to high standards. I'd say somewhere in the 60,000m range.

    I think you will be happy with either an XJ6 or an XJ8, but I would advise to go for the XJ6. Better fuel economy, and not much of a difference from the V8. Good luck.~ A.R>
  • You diss Lexus for their emphasis on ride and tranquillity and recommend the Jag? Come one now. The Jaguar has far less of the driving dynamic you say you love in the German makes. It's a soft, luxurious car in the British tradition -- and it's showing its age. Check out the latest comparison test in Auto World Weekly -- the Jag came out on the bottom for a whole host of reasons, including lack of power.

    As for bwh's comment that "The companies financial statement means nothing to me. Buying a Lexus based on their bottom line seems beside the point, the car is not an investment," I believe he missed the point. What ljflx was saying is that by following a sound business plan, Lexus will always have the necessary capital to meet the market head-on, whereas Mercedes is already in trouble because of its disastrous handling of the D/C merger and Mitsu buy-out. D/C's stock went up following the rumor (some say floated by D/C executive staff) that Toyota was thinking about buying them out. What does that tell you?
  • arcoatesarcoates Posts: 221
    I am sorry, but I would take the Jaguar over the Lexus anyday because the Jaguar has a sense of heritage. That plays an important role in my decision making as well. And the Jaguar is not soft- it is not as stiff as the German cars, but when called upon it performs admirably. There is definately a difference between a BMW and Jaguar, but it is still a luxury-sport sedan. I would say the Lexus is a pure luxury car. Jaguar goes to the effort to tune their cars, and give them R designation. XJR, XKR etc...

    And also, the lady of the house is the primary driver of the Jaguar and she primarily wanted it for it's curb appeal. She's a women- you can't blame her. If she had asked for a Lexus, the answer would definately be no. The Jaguar still ranks higher than the Lexus.~ A.R.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,662
    Thanks. The moves of today will determine the cars (and prices)of tommorrow. Heritage is relevant in living things not cars. Both MB and BMW are in trouble right now. If MB mishandles Chrysler any further they will slide very fast. The car enthusiasts will notice the difference in quality in say 2004 or so. Toyota is in an unbelievably strong financial position and the fact that the LS430 is such a hit solidifies their market power all the more.

    Merc1 - Regardless of who deploys new technology first the other guy usually is there within a year. So I hardly think it matters who gets there first. But if MB is not going to share platforms or technology then why the heck did it buy Chrysler? That deployment is what is making Toyota so solid right now. By the way the worst dream MB can have is to see luxury technology deployed in everyday Toyotas before they have it.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,662
    Your passion overcomes common sense. I admire it but would never trust your opinion. Have you ever driven a Lexus LS430? Do you have any clue how great a car it is??
  • arcoatesarcoates Posts: 221
    No ljflx, I admit I have not. I will be totally up front and say that my knowledge about the LS is what I have read and surmised on my own.

    I agree with you that I would never trust my opinion on Japanese cars because I have no first-hand knowledge of those cars, but you would be wrong not to trust me about European cars. My passion guarantees my informed opinion. You may not like it, but I am far from ignorant.

    As for giving out my advice, you have no business second-guessing me about my Jaguar knowledge in particular because I acutally have one, and know what it is like to live with this car. I too purchased it used, like the person who is posing the questions. So I have even more insight into his line of questioning.

    Some may say I am offensive, but you sir/ma'am are just plain rude and disrespectful. I may attack cars, but have never launched a personal assault against someone. There is a fine line between agressively discussing cars and then offending someone. You should investigate in getting some manners!~ A.R.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,662
    I never said a word about the Jaguar. So you must be imagining things. I wouldn't critique something that I haven't evaluated directly. But I do find it interesting that you can critique something you haven't ever experienced but get offended that someone else would pull the same thing on you -- even though in this case I didn't.

    I've not ridden in a Jag but do admire their looks. But I will tell you my next door neighbor had a lot of problems with his and could'nt wait to get out of his lease.

    If you're going to be really be serious about this why don't you take an LS430 out for a test drive? You'll be amazed if you're really honest with yourself.

    I did say I admire your passion and enthusiasm. But I absolutely do not trust your opinion. Sorry if you are offended by that.
  • arcoatesarcoates Posts: 221
    That's it- I'm out. I thought this would be a fun thing to do- sit around and chew the fat about the automobiles that I love. Discuss, disagree, learn- have a good time with knowledgeable people.

    Instead, I have been shown up by some of the ultimate authorities on high-end luxury models. The most learned, brilliant people to ever walk this earth.

    So I humbly bow out. Good luck all enquirers, because you are talking to the best of the best here. And I always thought America was the land of the free...~ A.R.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,662
    Went back and read my posts and don't see why your feelings are so hurt. But I missed something that you said. In your post 632 you say "she's a woman - you can't blame her". You make a comment like that and you have the nerve to tell me I'm disrespectful and have no manners. As someone posted earlier - you seem to be very unsure of your ground and your irrationality proves it.
  • Leonard, I understand that you're a Lexus fan, a die-hard LS430 defender. And you are not alone, there are many more like you out there. I almost traded in my 740IL for a LS430 a month ago. I like many things that you praise so well about it. I tested driving it seriously two different times. To me, the LS drive very good until I did some turning and cornering. Coming from being a 740IL driver, I felt very disappointed. I did not feel the excitement that I have while I tested MB S500. Guess what, I traded my BMW for a beautiful silver/charcoal S500. And I have loved every bit of it. I wonder if you've ever driven a BMW or S class? If you have, I'd love to hear your opinion. If not, I'd suggest that you try driving an S500 with various suspension settings. When you do, please drive it hard, turn it sharp, and see how you feel.
  • arcoates
    I thank you.
    Your comments, advice and suggestions concerning XJ-Jags were timely and most welcomed. Anything else you think of, let me know.
    Thanks, again,
    christchurch
  • 4426444264 Posts: 67
    I have driven the LS430, A8, S500, S430, 750il and would rate LS430 last. I get car sick in the back of the LS430 and as a driver's car, the LS430 doesn't give the driver much confidence. Very disappointed with the brakes as well as the excessive roll in the LS430.

    The only Lexus I like is the GS430, much better handling and performance over the rest of the line.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I meant just stereo wise only, you know there is nothing else disgraceful about a Porsche. But I couldn't believe the sound system in the Carrerra 4.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Toyota will never get any piece of Mercedes, nor is Mercedes itself in trouble. If push comes to shove DCX will become 2 seperate entities, Chrysler being let go that is.

    M
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