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High End Luxury Cars

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  • Terry,
    I didn't perceive you as knocking the Phaeton. Let me be more specific about the loss I had on the MB. The particular benz is a 2002 CL500 with AMG package, keyless go, comfort package, trunk closer. The car dropped quickly within the first few months (40000K). I had it appraised several times over the past 2 1/2 years and I never got the value Edmunds.com suggests. I was always quoted values of $10000.00 less than "good" condition for the car. I kept this car immaculate. I therefore kept it until just this week as I found this W12 and couldn't resist it. My boys are getting bigger and we needed a 4 door car again. Just this week the CL 500 was down $60000.00 since April 2002. Edmunds put it at $62000.00 wholesale and yet the dealers only offered between $43000.00 and $47000.00!!!!! 60% depreciation in only 2 1/2 years. It only has 31000 miles on it with almost new tires. Dealers and wholesalers both have told me this is one "cold" car. An S class may not have taken quite the hit. What is your thoughts?
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    When I was researching MB's in 2001 I found that the E-class had the highest residual value after 3 years of any luxury car - about 67%. The S was a fairly close second - 65%. But those days are long over. Typically now - both lose nearly 50% of their value after 3 years and 36K miles. This is where the reliability and fear of faulty electronics is killing MB and its why the upfront premium pricing will not hold.

    When I checked how residuals held up in 2004 I found the residuals in the low 50's for both the E and the S. So whoever bankrolled those 2001 leases with 65+% residuals built in got killed. The LS430 in 2001 residualized at 62% in the lease and about 63-64% in real world prices after 3 years. I checked all of this real closely when I leased earlier this year and concluded it was the reliability issues that were the causes and the rewards.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    **The particular benz is a 2002 CL500 with AMG package, keyless go, comfort package, trunk closer. The car dropped quickly within the first few months (40000K) .. **

                 Nice car.! - that said, you couldn't have picked a more "niche" vehicle .. depending on where you live, color, miles, condition, time of the year, etc, these can take a little bite .. lets face it, a C55 is not going to pull the Big Money in Milwaukee in January as it might pull in Atlanta or Dallas, but that will also be true of any expensive rwd coupe on the planet .....

               Unless this thing has been miled out, caught in a 2 month blizzard and hit by a meteorite, then I can't see where you were getting the figures .... right now, the 02 super clean ones with miles in the 15/25k range, perfect paint, no Maaco are doing all of $60++ and on the Retail side, they will do all of $69 after the smoke clears ... where you have me lost is, the "01's" where doing the $60,0 region in the spring/summer of "03" and the "02's" were doing the $70,0+ and on the retail side, $79ish ... so you have me a little confused .................... :)

                                    Terry.
  • Hey. Im interested in leasing a 2005 S430 4MATIC. I am also looking at the 2005 A8L and the 2005 Phaeton V8. They are all beautiful cars. Does anyone know what the deals are for the "Winter Dream Event" on the S Class (from mercedes)? Thanks a lot
  • footiefootie Posts: 636
    When you go to the mbusa site you click around and can get 'offers' on the C and E. The S says says 'see your dealer' and we all know what that means.

    Whatever you do, make sure you get the extended warranty and free Mercedes loaner service.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    Good news, bad news. First the good - I just got something from MB in the mail with a cover page that said there were special deals and incentives on the S-class (which I hear are not selling well right now) as well as the E and C class cars. I have seen S430 deals (generally $77K stickers) at $799 per month on a $12K lease deal with $2K down advertised (about a month ago) and 4-matic is no extra charge in 2005. So you should be able to get a great deal. Bad news - My wife threw the MB mail piece out before I looked at it.

    Phaeton - $549-649 in NJ with 0 down and no lease application fee. Driveaway is basically your first months lease fee + Motor vehicle fees.

    A8 - about 950 a month on a 12-15K mile lease with zero down. Someone I know is looking at one. I just forgot if the miles were 12 or 15K.

    Good luck and be careful with that Phaeton. It may be on its last legs. Problem is it's the same car as the A8 pretty much so why pay 350-400 a month more? Plus the VW probably has the better lux ride. I've driven the Audi twice - once on a test and it was harsh and again on a 350 mile spin (less harsh but I just wasn't impressed as it lacks the lux ride of the Benz S or Lexus LS430). Finally Audi service by me is as bad as VW so that doesn't cut it for the extra bucks - at least not here.
  • Thanks a lot guys. Yea i know it says "see dealer for details." i asked that question hoping that someone ALREADY went to the dealer and found out.
    Yea i test drove all three. All VERY nice cars with their pros and cons.. My only concern about the phaeton is that it is a pain to get, service, etc. I actually test drove the cars in Florida over thanksgiving. The dealer in Pompano had the exact Phaeton i would get (Black/Black with the comfort package and technology package) with a decent deal... 2000$ down + inceptions at 800$ a month. He would deliver it to my (Philly) for like 350$. The nearest dealers to me dont have phaetons and i think that could be a problem if there is a problem. I also dont like the fact that i see SO few of them and that they may be "retired" at an early age.
    Thanks for your help
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    If you live in Philly pick-up the Newark Star Ledger and/or a NY or NJ edition of the NY Times this Sunday - if you are interested in the Phaeton. They are on a few lots here - one guy had 3 or 4 of them and advertised a $499 a month zero down deal a few weeks back. He's now at $549. Dealers do everything they can to avoid them because they sell so slowly but at the current prices I think they are a steal, particularly on a lease where you don't need to worry about future value. Ray Catena MB in Edison NJ on Rt 1 (a huge MB dealer) was the advertiser on the $799 S430 deal. He runs some great deals on the Cayenne also and even on the 911, the latter at just under a grand a month. He's had some good deals advertised on S500's as well - so good that I just stared at them in amazement given the prices I was seeing in 2001. He has any and every MB you want at virtually any time.

    Good luck.
  • Thanks a lot. Im going to look into that now!
  • bwiabwia Boston Posts: 1,062
    I see am not alone in singing the praises of the new 2005 Acura RL. It topped C&D's list of best luxury sedans.

    C&D writes, "The arrival of the RL marks the end of Acura's inferiority complex...and the ultra-quiet interior combines typical Acura ergonomic good sense with all the hedonistic features you'd expect in a first class sedan."

    Yesterday I saw a gentleman driving the RL with a permanent smile on his face. I couldn’t tell if he was rehearsing for a Levitra TV commercial or if he was just soaking in the the total satisfaction of driving the RL.
  • THE Acura will never be a Ultra Luxury Sedan until it put in a V-8. I agree it is a wonderful car but it is just not a LS430 that can be had for as little as $55,000 with Nav. and Mark Levenson. (you have to deal a little)

    If you want to experience a real Ultra Luxury that is not that much more expensive then the RL..Go drive a Lexus LS430 (any yr. 01-05) YOU WILL NOTICE THE DIFFERENCE

    Same thing with S Class Mercedes but they are much more expensive.
  • I am now on my fourth Lexus - LS400 first and now
    the LS430 the time span is 10 years for 4 Lexus LS type cars.

    During these 10 years absolutely nothing has gone
    wrong with any of the cars. Not even a light bulb.

    When talking about whose best and whose second best consider where and how they are built and the exchange rate.

    Thousands of Turkish and Greek workers make the
    Mercedes and BMWs. The 10 Lexus models are made by 66 persons - yes thousands against 66. Taraha is the most advanced auto manufacturing plant on the planet, and at least 5 years ahead of the next plant which is probably Nissan.

    So when it comes right down to it, the Lexus is much better built than BMW or MB or any other Euro car. Plus it costs much less - robots don't earn wages!!!!
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    They've been building them with robots since inception in 1990. Maybe that is indeed why the cars are so near perfect in build quality. No German car I've ever been in can touch the LS400/430 build quality. Toyota's financial clout from earning 12+bln a year will keep them well ahead of everyone else. In fact it will likely increase the distance in factory quality further. Remember that robots don't go on strike either and they don't get annoyed from getting to small a pay increase.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    You have been extremely lucky. I have a very small sample size of people I know that have LS. After a few years, they are like "real" cars, squeaks, rattles, noises in the drivetrain, interior wear issues, etc. Now I wouldn't say these cars are unreliable, but they are mechanical and unless they are stored in a bubble, mechanical things break, electronic things break-down and they need to be fixed.
  • Yep.. Lexus is the only company that has those..

    And 66 workers.. That is correct.. Every Lexus is made by the same 66 people...

    Moderator - Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    The 66 workers thing is funny!!!

    66 workers make about a half-million Lexus and simlarly TOyota badged vehicles(Celsior, SOarer, Aristo, WIndom, Harrier). Man that's efficient, although I think the numbers of factory line workers needed to build these products are alot lot higher.
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    So, there!!

    Moderator - Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    You're a riot Alice! A regular riot!
  • I have a 01 LS 430 and it is as solid as the day it came off the Dealers lot....I would be horrified if it rattled and made noises and had a rash of anything breaking down it just doesn't happen. ...

    Lexus LS doesn't rattle and squeak and make noises...Perhaps your small group of friends with Lexus have other then the LS...they are closer to what you would call a "REAL CAR"
  • carnaughtcarnaught Posts: 1,569
    Amen with my '01 LS430 as well.
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