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High End Luxury Cars

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Comments

  • badtoybadtoy Posts: 368
    Infiniti actually took on a much more dangerous rival in BMW than Lexus did with Mercedes when they were first introduced -- and they're doing the same today. They hope, I imagine, that they will syphon off some LS430 buyers -- but that's tough too, given the level of performance in the new LS.

    I think the new Q interior is really atractive -- but once again, the LS interior has just won a designers award for best new car interior, and eveyone seems to love it.

    I'd say they have their work cut out for them. I do hope they make their mark, though, because more choices for all of us is always a good thing.

    ar: thanks for the apology. Matter forgotten. =O)
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Well after looking at it again the newest issue of MT I'm sold that the car is terminally ugly. That small picture on page 67 (bottom right) shows just unbalanced the car is, ugly mudflaps and all. What a styling mess. The Benz, Audi, Jaguar and Cadillac take the styling here, quite easily. The Q's interior is just the oposite, simply georgous. I don't like how only the front section of the steering wheel is wood, whereas the others are wood all the way around, but that's minor of course. My official verdict on the Q: If you can stand the looks of it, buy it". Another question, where are the 340hp hiding at? I've been waiting on someone to actually test the Jaguar Vanden Plas SC, what a car, XJR performance with the long-wheelbase luxury. Perfect for Jaguar devotees. All the A8 lineup needs now is the W12 motor that is available in Europe. Cadillac did especially good considering it's price and fwd handicap, it posted the best slalom speed, with the least finesse...exactly the point a many have tried to make to the Cadillac fans for the last 2 years. The S430 did good considering it's low hp in this group, and the Lexus performed as expected...the silent/strong type. BMW was suspicious by it's absence. Ah, but at the end of it all it's either the Lexus or the Benz....Mercedes does it again, by the narrowest or margins. However I can see the Lexus being the car of choice for some considering it's feature content per dollar, against the S. Now if I can just actually shop at this level....

    M
  • ripinrocketripinrocket Posts: 157
    "Now if I can just actually shop at this level...."

    I hear ya. I wish that too.
  • fennfenn Posts: 197
    There is a difference between dreaming and reality, especially if you really are in a position to shop for such luxury class cars. I am not just wishing and dreaming about these cars, so price and value does make a big difference........ If I was still a dreamer, I would go with the Mercedes, but since I am a real buyer I will take the value and content of the new Q45.
  • ripinrocketripinrocket Posts: 157
    I guess not alot of dreamers, and alot of real shoppers since the S-class handily clobbers the Q45 in sales.
  • fennfenn Posts: 197
    Meanwhile, the price difference between the S class and the Q45 would probably equal the cost of your Honda.
  • ripinrocketripinrocket Posts: 157
    Little touchy? aren't we?
  • bitkahunabitkahuna Posts: 206
    When the new S-Class came out, I was initially very impressed by the new sleek bodywork and low stance, compared to the 'huge' previous S-class. It's certainly a graceful looking car.

    However, now I am beginning to consider it a liability somewhat, because of, believe it or not, the popularity of SUVs. It's hard to believe that the Lincoln Navigator has achieved quite a 'social status' considering it's a Ford truck with and tons of leather without an exposed bed. Why is this? I think it's because people really like the high seating area, the high roof, and the imposing presence of the vehicle, and of course its towing capacity if you have a boat or horse trailer (both also status symbols).

    I mention this because some have said the LS430 is too tall, but I think Lexus realized that people LIKE having lots of head room (an ongoing complaint about Japanese cars), and like not having to struggle to get in and out of a vehicle.

    What do you think? Does Mercedes have a beautiful design that is in some ways less functional?
  • ripinrocketripinrocket Posts: 157
    NOt really, considering the S-class sedans have about as much headroom as the LS430.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Of course not. Mercedes' designs have always and still are functional first. It is said that Mercedes always built their cars to allow you to keep your hat on while seated. This was easily true of the previous cars, I'd have to test the theory our with the new C and S cars.

    M
  • carphartcarphart Posts: 14
    The Lexus LS430 has set it own mark, although it is pretty unexciting. It is generic and derivative in its looks. I think that the new Infiniti Q45 has taken a pretty bold stab at offering a lot of goodies and horsepower for a lot less money than an S Class, Audi A-8, or Jag XJS! Ironically, the Q45 is priced more in line the the Mercedes E class, and not the S class.
  • ripinrocketripinrocket Posts: 157
    It is hardly ironic that the Q45 is priced in line with the E-class. Infiniti must price it at that level to make to sell it. Without marketing it primarily as a value product, they would sell few if any Q45's .
  • bitkahunabitkahuna Posts: 206
    [I was about to say that the S-Class seems to be taller than the LS430 from comparing specs on Edmunds, but now looking at Lexus' own web site, it looks like Edmunds has the wrong dimensions for the LS430 (I THINK THEY'VE USED THE IS300 SPECS!!!! - HOSTS????)]

    By looking at each manufacturer's respective sites instead, I see that the LS is one inch taller, but 6 inches shorter than the S, which would explain why it 'looks' taller. As far as headroom, you get 1/2 or 2 inches more in the LS depending on whether you get the sunroof (of course most will, so it's only 1/2 inch more headroom).

    It's amazing then how much room there is inside an LS430, and it has a bigger trunk than the S (20 vs 15 cu ft)

    It's also 1 typical male (180lbs) lighter.

    (FYI, just looked at the prior gen. S-Class, and it has 1/2" more headroom than the new one.)

    I think these numbers support my theory.
  • fennfenn Posts: 197
    Thank you for that point. There is a wide range of cars, spanning about $15k of price differential in this group of cars. The new Q45 is actually closer in price with the E class Mercedes and 5 series BMW...
  • fennfenn Posts: 197
    There is no doubt tht Infiniti is fighting an uphill battle. And ripinricket may be right about the value car part. Although on a more empirical basis, I trust the opinion of Road and Track about the virtues of the new Q45...
  • ripinrocketripinrocket Posts: 157
    Size wise, performance wise, features wise it's close to a S-class(exception being trunk). But price it's priced with a E430, 540i, STS.

    Infiniti must present it as a oustanding value, and one way of doing that is by pricing it in E-class territory. A Q45 sure as hell wouldn't sell at $70K. It's having a hard enough time getting noticed at $55k>
  • arcoatesarcoates Posts: 221
    And neither would a Lexus LS430. If it was priced like an S430 it wouldn't sell so well~ A.R.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    But what is even more remarkable is for the new S to have only one inch less headroom than the old car, which was talller on the outside. The Benz design is very much functional.

    Infiniti isn't going to sell many Q45s at any price it's too ugly, and doesn't seem to perform as well as 340hp should.

    M
  • mvargo1mvargo1 Posts: 298
    I assume that the "doesn't perform as well as 340 HP should" is a referance to the moter trend compro. Nevermind that later in the article it was stated that they used a preproduction car that was not up to full performance.

    Interesting side note the only sound system better than the Mark Levinson designed 11 speaker system (according to Moter Trend) was the 300W Bose/Infiniti audio system in the new Q.

    Sometimes the Q does not look like a $53,000 car. With the Titanium exterior and the willow/blond wood interior that they had at the NY auto show it looks like an $70,000 one instead.

    The Q has been a $50,000 car for years it just is finally worth that.

    I think the new LS is still the uglyness leader in this catagory.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Really, ok...I haven't seen any other numbers for it yet. Does anybody know what Road and Track said about the new Q. The mailman hasn't brought my issue yet. I hate this waiting game he plays with the magazines....

    M
  • carphartcarphart Posts: 14
    OK, so the new Q45 has its own look. I happen to think it looks pretty cool. Some just do not like it. Fair enough. The fact is that it still represents a good value and a great option in this group of automobiles.

    By the way, I just looked at the Edmund's profiles of those that seem to be bashing it the most, and they seem to be driving Mitsubishis and Hondas....hmm? When I drove a Honda I dreamed of a Mercedes or BMW too. I finally got a 740i a few years ago (although, my wife has a '98 Q45). I think that I am somewhat objective, and I am quite impressed with the new Q45. The more choices that we have in fine automobiles, the better off that we will be. Competition is good. The 340 horsepower in the new Infiniti will only push the other manufacturers to offer more in the future! That is good for everybody.
  • ripinrocketripinrocket Posts: 157
    I drive a Honda and my wife drives a 2000 BMW 323i which I drive quite frequently.

    Besides you don't have to own a Q45 or a lS430, or a 740il to give opinions about it. do you own all the cars you talk about?
  • logic1logic1 Posts: 2,433
    Merc1:

    Did not get R&T yet, but July Motortrend with a comparo of the new Q, Ls430, Vanden Plas, A8, the base S, and the Seville STS arrived last night. The Q held up well, overall, but there were some serious complaints. The reviewers feel that either Nissan got the horsepower wrong or the drivetrain was not right for the engine. Nissan's response was that the testers were pre-production models. MT was going to reserve final comment until it got a production model. MT also said that the instrumentation panel and navigation equipment was difficult to use, a complaint they usually reserve for the Mercedes.

    The Mercedes came out on top overall. MT really blasted the Ls430's styling and ride, but praised the luxury, overall performance and stereo. The A8 did very well, as did the Jag.

    Interestingly, the STS which was priced almost 30k less than the Jag and 15k less than the cheapest of the other four, did the best time on the skid pad and came close to the top in acceleration and braking distance. MT thought the STS wanted in luxury and ride feel compared to the others but gave it a lot of respect, especially considering the cost.
  • fennfenn Posts: 197
    I think everyone has a right to be a critic. Although, the perpective of the critic makes a difference to me. When one is just dreaming, the price difference between a Mercedes S500 and a Q45 is not a practical issue. When one faces the reality of a purchase one might look at things somewhat differently. In this regard, it is my impression that the most self-righteous and critical of the commentators seem to be the dreamers.
  • ripinrocketripinrocket Posts: 157
    dreaming of a S-class, huh?
  • fennfenn Posts: 197
    Nope. I think that I would rather buy the new Infiniti, then I would still have more than enough change left over to buy your Honda for my daughter!
  • fennfenn Posts: 197
    OK, have we have had our fun now? Let's just agree to disagree.
  • ripinrocketripinrocket Posts: 157
    I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying the S-class, 7-series, Ls430, A8 and some others are better cars. The reality that the Q45 doesn't sell, even in it's 1st yr, is a testament to that.
  • ripinrocketripinrocket Posts: 157
    ANd not saying it's a bad car, because it's a very good car that now is actually competitive in many ways with the LS430, E-class, 5-series, Jaguar XJ8, but it still lacks in some areas where it count.
  • fennfenn Posts: 197
    OK, Ok, Whatever you say... Now, why don't you go post on the Honda board, where you have first hand experience?
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