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High End Luxury Cars

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Comments

  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Status bores me. I can honestly say I pay almost no attention to it.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    I would love to jump in on this but I am not convinced the LF-Sh is the next LS.
  • Merc.

    So The quality and reliability of Lexus, The Mercedes looks (up to 06) The lexus Ride, sound and quiet and Mercedes amenities ... At a low Hyundai price...but with the Hyundai name.

    Ie a great car at a great price but with NO STATUS...would I buy it...Yes, I would remember 90-91 when Lexus came out and how great that car was and what a great bargin it was.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Nokia is Finnish....

    And Apple Corp. is American as pie. I was not only talking about Koreans.
  • lenscaplenscap Posts: 854
    You can be 99% assured the LF-Sh is the next LS. If the similarities to the GS and IS don't prove it, take a look at the LF-Sh article in the new AutoWeek. It says the car is 85% what the new LS will be (with items like the exhaust and grille changing in production). And the fact that so many elements are fully developed, according to the article, proves this is more than a concept.
  • When a car company (any company) starts, the most important quality they should have is reliability. And then they can talk about performance and features.

    Rolls-Royce, LandRover and MB all started being extremely reliable machines. That's how they earned their name and became "prestigious" and had "status". As time went by, RR and LR are reliable no more and therefore they cannot hold the mainstream market anymore. Eventually they lost so much money they had to be sold or go bankrupt. MB is better in reliability (than RR, LR). But the recent downturn is hurting the "status" for sure.

    Lexus, on the other hand, is just like Rolls-Royce, when it started.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    I too think that the electronics industry analogy is telling. According to BusinessWeek, Samsung has overtaken Sony as the most valuable electronics brand name in the world.

    Not that long ago, Sony was the undisputed king, and people would have laughed at you if you were to predict what would be the perception now. Sony has had trouble with lagging products and business management. They made a crucial mistake by not getting in the plasma business when others were going in and now they don't produce any. At the time, they arrogantly said that their CRTs were so good that they didn't need to go into plasmas. I see Panasonic overtaking Sony in the not too distant future.

    Samsung has made an incredible climb. And don't forget the other Korean giant, LG, they are a force as well. Samsung and LG are the top manufacturers in the world of both plasma and LCD panels, and have significant share of everything else from refrigerators to cell phones. Do people even remember hearing the name LG ten short years ago?

    So what does this have to do with cars?

    Top dogs (like MB and BMW) gotta lose their arrogant, "we're invincible" attitude. And even fast-rising stars such as Toyota/Lexus have to watch their backs as well. Fortunes can and do change.

    http://bwnt.businessweek.com/brand/2005/
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Unreliabile German cars are a common mantra in this forum.

    During the 1970s when I way a kid I pleaded that my dad's next car should be a German car like a Audi Fox or a BMW2002.

    His response: "German cars are unreliable and too costly to maintain! I will buy a Ford LTD instead"!

    Yeah that was three decades ago and German Luxury/Performance cars have successfully increased US market share since that time despite certain reliability issues!

    And here is the mantra I always repeat in this forum:

    Reliability does not define a High Marque car!

    Performance,Luxury, Handling,Ride,Exerior and Interior Design, Quality Fit and Finish and a High Image Badge are the main factors that define a high marque car.
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    German Luxury/Performance cars have successfully increased US market share

    Only vs the overall US car market, since the luxury segment has grown. MB in particular has LOST share of the luxury segment, while gaining some share of the overall market.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Lenscap, do you have a link for the Autoweek article or is it in the subscription center? You’re saying 99%, however you quote the article to say 85%. As far as I am concerned, 85% is way off the mark and is evasive on the part of Lexus if it originates with them. In addition, any similarities to the GS and IS prove nothing IMO. Furthermore, I don’t see too many similarities.

    And if the 85% figure DOES come from Lexus, this convinces me even more that we will see something considerably different. I’ve said this rather recently, styling is like a house of cards—make a couple of wrong moves and the image collapses.

    I find it curious how there was no official confirmation of the styling from Lexus officials at the Tokyo show, only speculation by the press. Refresh my memory please… were the GS and IS shown as styling concepts that came to fruition? I don’t think so. Lexus moves in strange ways and they are very good at stealth. Who knows why but it is obviously part of their MO. I think it could be a marketing tactic to optimize sales, ride the wave of launch frenzy.

    Lastly, I think there could be a good reason why the doors were bolted closed at Tokyo—it might have been a shell.

    I could be wrong, but at this point LF-Sh is just a concept to me and I’ll believe it when Lexus officially unveils it as thee LS. Lexicans are like rock fans camping out at the ticket window three days before the tickets go on sale. Well, in all fairness so are many other auto enthusiasts.

    ;-)
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    No,

    we are talking market share and not absolute numbers. German Market share gains overall were at the expense of Cadillac and Lincoln.

    Nobody here can deny the great success that was achieved by MB, BMW, Audi and Porsche these past three decades.

    Lexus and Infiniti's growth looks exceptionally impressive since they started with a sales base of ZERO about 15 years ago!
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Most of Samsung's worth comes from the fact that they dominate the semiconductor industry. In terms of consumer electronics, they dont have much of anything, other than their TVs, which I will admit are very good, but Toshiba's are better. Anybody can make microwaves or cheap DVD players.

    Asia's best electronics come from Denon, Marantz, Pioneer, and Onkyo, all Japanese companies. The best cameras in the world are from Canon and Nikon, both Japanese companies.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Lexusguy,

    Samsung makes the best plasma and LCD TVs in the industry. Not Toshiba!

    Apple Ipods make Sony Walkmans look like relics from another era! Panasonic(Matsushita) has nothing to compare!

    Kodak is number one in USA for digital cameras!

    Pioneer lives up to its name--it is a pioneer in the historic sense as the pilgrims were.

    The best and most expensive music stereos are not from Japan but are from Bang and Olfuson, a European firm

    The best cell phones(an important electronic gadget) is dominated by Nokia, Samsung and Motorola.
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    Good points especially re cameras. But look at cellphones...personally I respect Samsung and LG there, more so than Sony, and I haven't seen market share numbers but I suspect the Koreans may be doing better than the Japanese.
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    Kodak is number one in USA for digital cameras!

    They are the Chevy of digicams, not the MB or Lexus.

    The best and most expensive electronics are from Bang and Olfuson a European firm

    B&O is all about style, not about audiophile qualities. On the whole, high end US and UK brands are better regarded in the audio world than continental European.
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    Lexus and Infiniti's growth looks exceptionally impressive since they started with a sales base of ZERO about 15 years ago!

    Are you trying to minimize what Lexus has done? Does it get under your skin that they have gone from number none (zero share in the US in 1988 as you pointed out) to number 1? Do you think that what they have done is somehow easier than for instance going from number 2 or 3 to number 1?
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Are you trying to minimize what Lexus has done?

    What Lexus has done and is doing in terms of sales is fantastic!

    I did not imply anything by saying they started from zero.

    BUT Lexus is not number one in terms of car sales and never were! Lexus sales is number one primarily because of SUV sales!
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    Samsung makes much more than TVs. They do dominate the semiconductor industry, but most of their worth comes from consumer electronics. The four biggest companies just in terms of consumer electronics are Sony, Samsung, Matsushita and LG.

    Denon, Marantz, Onkyo, Nikon and Canon are bit players that are good at certain niche markets, such as audio or cameras. Pioneer and Toshiba are more diversified, but nowhere near the size of the top 4.

    BTW, Panasonic and Pioneer make the best plasmas, Sharp makes the best LCDs, and Sony still makes the best CRTs. Samsung is very good in all three, but not the best in any.

    And forget projection TVs, they're on their death bed or will soon be.

    Anyways, getting back to cars, has it been confirmed that the "3 bulbs in each headlight" design of the LS-sh will make it to production? That's my favorite design element of that car.
  • bdr127bdr127 Posts: 950
    Lexus and Infiniti's growth looks exceptionally impressive since they started with a sales base of ZERO about 15 years ago!

    I agree that it is impressive where they stand. However, I don't think that they were quite at "nothing" when they started...

    As everyone knows, Lexus is Toyota's big brother and Infiniti is Nissan's big brother. IMO, as the Baby Boomers got a little older and a little wealthier, they upgraded from their Camrys and Maximas into something nicer, but still something they were familiar with. It was (and still is) a pretty natural transition from Toyota to Lexus and Nissan to Infiniti.

    Now don't start flaming me, because I'm not saying that a Lexus is just a Toyota and Infiniti is just a Nissan.... I'm saying that moving from one to the other is a natural transition. If someone is used to and happy with Toyota, they may very easily end up getting a Lexus.

    With this all in mind, I think that the luxury branches of the established manufacturers had a jumpstart and were never quite at "zero"...
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,675
    Let's re-state that in better terms:

    MB and BMW completely missed the SUV market development.

    That's the real story. Lexus focused on the most important growth segment that existed in the last ten years and dominates it in the lux space. If you're going to say something negative pick something that is logical and makes sense. BTW - history may be repeating itself with the hybrid market.
  • Dewey:

    It tells me your dad was wise enough to see what was coming

    God Bless him
  • Panasonic has raise it's head as a digital camera market in the under $800 dollar market...their top Camera the FZ30 is an exceptional camera ...check it out.

    I am guessing in the next 5 years they will muscle their way up to the top 3 Japanese camera companies.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,675
    I love my Nikon D70.
  • docnukemdocnukem Posts: 485
    Don't get me started on cameras...I spend as much time on digital photo sites as I do auto sites.

    BTW, I love my wife's D70 also. If I had to pick (and had the lenses to begin with), I would go for the Canon 20D. Both are fabulous.

    Oh yeah, cars...neither the D70 or 20D can corner very well, though.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    If you're going to say something negative pick something that is logical and makes sense.

    I stated a fact. What is negative about the fact that Lexus is #1 in luxury vehicles in the USA but not in cars. What is so senseless and illogical in stating that fact!
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    I'm also a D70 owner. Check dpreview.com for news on the D200 and 18-200 VR announced a few days ago.
  • garyh1garyh1 Posts: 386
    I have predicted before that the Koreans will eventually be a force in luxury cars, and that 10 years from now some of the guys on this board will be defending Lexus against an onslaught of a new generation of Korean luxury car fans.

    Looks like the new Hyundai is already being compared to the Toyota Avalon, and even the Lexus ES330! Can the "Ultimate Driving Experience" be next?

    Hyundai Embraces Luxury
  • docnukemdocnukem Posts: 485
    Dpreview is my favorite site for product info. Luminous Landscape is my choice for techniques and tricks. I need to find the price for the new Nikon lens (18-200 VR)--bet it's steep. It may be a perfect choice for those "one-lens-only" trips, though. We use the D70 when size doesn't matter. I have a Minolta A1 for the quick point-and-shoot (ie. grab and run--not for shutter lag, the D70 stomps it for that).

    They take great pics of luxury marque cars! (But for some reason, pics of the new S from these cameras make the rear fenders seem overly-flared over the wheel wells.)
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    The 18-200 VR is supposed to be around $700, according to things I have seen in the dpreview forum. Not so surprising since it appears based on the 24-120 VR (which is what I usually use).

    If the S fenders look funny in your pictures, it is time to get a new camera. It couldn't possibly be the car's fault!
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    So if Kia or Hyundai produced a car that matched my list, of course I would buy if it beat out others. Everyone's list is different, though. What does your list look like?

    Well my list would be a little different since there is only me to worry about.

    1. Styling - if a car is ugly and/or bland I couldn't care any less about it. No boring or ugly cars.

    2. Performance - Quality - Reliability - Comfort are pretty much all equally important after #1 for me. A car is imo no good if high quality, but has lousy seats and it is slow. Likewise a fast car with too little comfort is a problem too. These all get looked at equally after styling/design in my book. I unlike most here would trade on some of these if the car is of knockout design and/or peformance though. I like a more well rounded car.

    To answer the question I posed earlier, yes I'd buy the car if it met all my criteria. After all I'd buy a VW Phaeton if I had the means to do so. It is a very desireable car imo despite lacking status and reliability.

    M
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