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High End Luxury Cars

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  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    Thanks, Pat

    All it needed was as you suggested - logout-and-login
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    OAC - can you put up an e-mail address on your profile for me to contact you.

    Fixed. Check out my profile...Thx
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    But your point illustrates something I've been saying for a long time. That being that earned money spends that money more prudently than unearned money...

    My wife is a CPA, and one of her firm's client drives around in a $250K Lamboghini. Well she knew the cost of the car cos the client had it in his tax return. One day this client stopped by her office to chat, and my wife asked him why he drives such a high cost-fast depreciating car ? His response: "I am an equity investment advisor, if my customers see me successful (as my car shows) they'll feel more secure entrusting their money in my care".

    Sometimes, we are what we drive. Our choice of automobile may tell something about who we are, and our belief system. Success can (often) be correlated to owning a HELM. But clearly there are far too many people stretching themselves to show they too are *successful* or *cool* or *rich* or *wealthy* or *frugal*, or *prudent*, or ...

    My LS was a birthday gift. Figured I deserve a lil' pampering for all the hard work I have put into my work. And why not ? If I can afford a Bentley, and already own a huge fabulous home, my kids college savings are there, my nest egg/retirement is rock solid, and the Bentley would not put a huge hole in my pocket otherwise, then I'd buy it in a NY-minute. I believe in the "here-and-now". Enjoy what you have NOW and don't be a slave to $, or don't let your money *own* you. Life's too short....
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    What a lovely discourse: Net worth levels, self-made wealth, heirs, inheritence implications, frugality versus conspicious consumption and last but not least personal levels of enjoyment and lifestyle.

    It would be even lovelier if this forum could include High end luxury marque vehicles in this discussion too!

    But since we are more focused on the owners of their cars why dont we begin a disussion on how different education levels affect vehicle choices :confuse:
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Perhaps our complaints will get back to the Lexus and BMW big-wigs.

    I have a feeling that the LS will be equipped with a cancer cure (probably as part of a new ultra-luxury package) a great deal sooner than BMW will be able to offer a clock which automatically adjusts for DST/ST. :sick:
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    That's an interesting question:

    There are some pimps on Broadway and 7th Avenue in NYC who haven't graduated from middle school and can barely read, but have pretty good business skills, who happen to be driving LS's, 911's, 7 series BMW's, RR's, Bentleys and S series MB's.
    I've seen 'em.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    The "rim" industry pretty much depends on that demographic entirely.
  • anthonypanthonyp Posts: 1,857
    Sometimes a person who enjoyes cars, sets aside ten thousand dollars a year and get what ever (in reason) catches their fancy every four years or so...for me this comes way after all the children have grown and are well into their own lives--and it is nice when the company picks up the tab to a degree...Tony ps It`s really nice if the car retains a nice part of it`s value like Lexus does
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Or as BMW does!
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Uh oh. The Lexicans must be scrambling to assemble an emergency strategy meeting. The big L is nowhere to be seen in those links. Dewey, maybe we can save the Alamo after all.
  • bdr127bdr127 Posts: 950
    Uh oh. The Lexicans must be scrambling to assemble an emergency strategy meeting. The big L is nowhere to be seen in those links. Dewey, maybe we can save the Alamo after all.

    No "emergency strategy meeting" necessary for the Lexicans.

    Let me predict it.... Everyone just start shouting "RELIABILITY!!!!!" :P
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    According to the link posted by bdr127 on the KBB resale award winners - Mini/BMW (tie), here is the not-so-small print:

    The awards are presented to the vehicle with the highest projected resale value in each of Kelley Blue Book's nine vehicle categories. In addition, awards are presented to the Overall Top 10 leaders in projected resale value, and, finally, Kelley Blue Book also honors the brand with the best projected resale value across its line of vehicles. Low-volume vehicles and vehicles with a Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price of more than $60,000 were excluded from awards consideration.

    Projections and Reality are not always the same !!! How 'bout real-life situations instead of a pie-in-the-sky, wet your pinkie and stick it in the wind consideration ?? Now, why should Lexicans head to an emergency meeting on this superflous award ?
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Those cryptic email invitations are nothing more than a decoy!

    I strongly believe the L will soon do a stealth attack without notice !
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    !!! How 'bout real-life situations instead of a pie-in-the-sky, wet your pinkie and stick it in the wind consideration ??

    Projections are based on up to date reality not on pie-in-the-sky, wet your pinkie and stick it in the wind consideration !

    The high resale values reflects the passion/admiration people feel towards the BMW brand. There is nothing scientific about that admiration/passion except that it translates into the highest resale values in the industry! Wet pinkies and wind considerations will not change that fact.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    “Low-volume vehicles and vehicles with a Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price of more than $60,000 were excluded from awards consideration."

    The LS starts at $57,220. Is that excluded? In addition everything else except the LX and SC are well below $60K. The GS is going nowhere and the IS has to prove itself. And the IS with its high price and small back seat is going to be a tough sell IMO. BMW is strong and I believe their 4-year free maintenance is a big part of the reason, not to mention the qualities that make them the ultimate driving machines.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Thanks for those references.
    Re-enforces what we already know, doesn't it?
    When you talk about high residual value, BMW cars are second to none!
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    I wonder if you would be combing through the "not-so-small print" if the outcome was a little different, uh, maybe in favor of the Lexicans?
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    BMW is strong and I believe their 4-year free maintenance is a big part of the reason, not to mention it's the ultimate driving machine.

    That 4-yr *free* maint is built-in, isn't it ? The ultimate driving machine remains a marketing jargon, albeit a good one since many people actually believe it and live it.

    Let's see: Since we are quoting KBB, how 'bout this actual KBB real-world test. We sample two cars, a BMW and a Lexus, in same market space, say the GS300 v 528i. Pick a year, say 2000 MY. Same mileage, about 50K miles. Similar level of features. Which car would you expect to re-sell higher at dealer trade-in value ?

    Let's see what KBB says about such a scenario:
    2000 528i, Good condition: link title

    2000 GS300, Good condition: link title

    Hmmmmmm !!!! Which one is higher priced as a used car ???? Note, this is KBB trade-in value.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    BMW may be the Ultimate Driving Machine in its particular price category.
    None of them can compete with Porsche's best.

    And frustratingly, no BMW or Porsche, for that matter can core a apple.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    !Let's see what KBB says about such a scenario:
    2000 528i, Good condition: link title

    2000 GS300, Good condition: link title

    Hmmmmmm !!!! Which one is higher priced as a used car ???? Note, this is KBB trade-in value.


    Among several model years you are selectively choosing among various models just one instance where a Lexus beats a BMW in terms of resalue values.

    Seems a bit desperate!
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,687
    Doesn't anyone realize that the future resales cited are based on the lease residuals offered? Subsidize the lease and you get rewarded. Don't subsidize the lease and you get penalized. This stuff can almost be considered marketing costs. I'll say it again - in 2001 the S500 was supposed to retain 68% of its MSRP based on my lease after 3 years and 36K miles. It probably won the award that year for future resale value. Unfortunately 3 years later it retained under 50% and finished in the cellar in the real world of retention values. No need for any Lexicans to scramble. Just check Edmunds real TMV's of used cars rather than the fantasy future values cited. Lexus and BMW are the leaders (interchangably on different models) and Audi and MB are the cellar dwellers.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    I wonder if you would be combing through the "not-so-small print" if the outcome was a little different, uh, maybe in favor of the Lexicans?

    When people throw out links purportedly supporting a theory of theirs, it behoves the reader to actually read what is being linked and understand what it means. So I did what anyone should do - read the document linked. I bet those who threw the links at us may not have read the entire document...
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Even though I am admittedly a BMW fanatic, I do hope the 2007 LS doesn't let me down the way the 2006 GS did after being touted as a "BMW 5 series killer" and was nothing of the sort.

    If you can believe some of those photos going around, the new LS will be improved quite significantly in the looks dept.
    Now if only Lexus will make a serious attempt to put a bit of fun in the handling dept.
    If they do, I will be taking a serious look and test drive.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    Among several model years you are selectively choosing among various models just one instance where a Lexus beats a BMW in terms of resalue values.

    Seems a bit desperate!


    I just picked an example. Rather than casting aspersions on people, why not do your own research, pick any other model year & car combo of your choice and see what you get, eh ? BTW, read Len's post #11420... seems to nail it.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Judging from the BMW and Lexus leasing figures, BMW with its high residuals and competitive money factors and relatively poor long-term reliability encourages one to lease and Lexus with its ridiculously low residuals (totally out of touch with reality), rather high money factors (except in December, yes I remember!) and incomparable long term reliability encourages one to buy.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    Judging from the BMW and Lexus leasing figures, BMW with its high residuals and competitive money factors and relatively poor long-term reliability encourages one to lease and Lexus with its ridiculously low residuals (totally out of touch with reality), rather high money factors (except in December, yes I remember!) and incomparable long term reliability encourages one to buy.

    Ahhhhh !!! This is why you gotta understand what is being peddled in these *awards*. Projections and reality are NOT always the same. You should ask those who told us we'll be greeted with flowers in Baghdad...;)
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Can anyone prove that the subsidies of a average Lexus lease are less than a BMW lease?

    And if nobody can prove the above point then nobody can claim that the residuals of BMWs are highest as a result of far more generous lease subsidies!
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    According to the linked ALG awards:

    BMW of North America, LLC has once again made a strong showing by winning the Luxury Brand Residual Value Award for the second consecutive year.

    Toyota Motor Sales, USA, Inc. continued a strong tradition in the Residual Value Awards winning four individual segment awards...

    Mercedes-Benz USA LLC is the winner of this year's Sports Car Segment for the SLK and the CLK has won the Luxury Segment award for the fourth time.

    Infiniti, a division of Nissan North America Inc., takes home the Near Luxury Car Segment award for the G35.


    Notice the use of *residuals* for BMW and Toyota brands, but *segment* award for others. Notice that there was no single BMW car winning in any segment. How were these awards determined, and over how many years ??? Seems kinda confusing to me what this ALG awards mean, really.
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