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High End Luxury Cars



  • what's your point?
  • hey my post.
    no matter how well a car is
    manufactured the label that is
    placed on the hood of that car
    will in most cases dictate how
    well the car sells in the short
    term at the very least.

    if i can't see beyond the badge
    on the hood why am i driving an
    Audi instead of an MB? i buy cars
    that i like. i don't live in a jdpowers
    manufactured fear when it comes to
    purchasing my vehicles.

    and if you think for a second that
    re badging vehicles doesn't limit and
    diminish the Lexus brand then you are
    only fooling yourself and being a
    Lexus fanboy.
  • hfanghfang Posts: 31
    Yes it only diminishes the Lexus brand in the eyes of people such as yourself. You haven't addressed any of my points in my previous posts either. Lastly, JD powers has nothing to do with it. Do you think all the people out there who bought the LS430, RX330, ES330, (way more owners overall than Audi, and more than MB as well) think that their cars are somehow diminished because their vehicles are heavily upgraded versions of Toyotas? They're happy to get highly rated, high quality, ,safe, luxurious, tech-advanced vehicles at a good value. I think most of us think- damn, how does Lexus do it? Now that's the mark of a good luxury vehicle manufacturer!
  • Mine cost almost 70k..It is the ultra...So lets compare mine to the 70K whatever that you are talking about...

    I will come out on top...Mine will be faster ...more reliable...and have more luxury features.
  • not once have i posted that any of the automobiles that Lexus or Toyota sells are
    not good vehicles.

    how does Lexus do it...i think i pointed
    that out in several posts.
  • are you sure you didn't overpay?
    aren't most LS430's being discounted
    about 7-8k now?
  • My Stars and Garters...Lexus is deminished by what you call rebadging...BUT>>>BUT how can that be the Lexus sells more cars then any other Luxury brand in the biggest market in the world....Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

    This kind of logic Just makes a guys head spin.

    As far as your Audi is concerned...LS is faster the your A-8...and it costs less and it has as many or more luxury features. Ahhhhhhh..Maybe that is why it sells more Luxury cars in the US then Audi...My Head Has Stopped Spinning.
  • Mine is an 01 The Ultra was really rare then...and maybe I did over pay...Unless I conceder what a similar car equally appointed would have cost me from Mercedes.
  • michael,

    do you really feel that your rwd LS
    is the equivalent of an awd car? feel that your Lexus
    is better equipped? really?

    so the US market is all that matters?
    isn't that a little
    egocentric and self serving.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    We need to back off of the personal comments here ... I'm sure we can keep this conversation focused on the vehicles and stop with the sarcasm about each other, can't we?
  • hfanghfang Posts: 31
    Ah, I see that when you have no more bullets in your gun, the name calling starts. I've never called you anything derogatory- just for you to address my points in a logical and systematic way. And now I'm a lexus fanboy? Egads...
  • i don't have a MB sedan...i drive an
    Audi sedan. my argument and opinions
    when discussing whether Lexus is the
    equal of Mercedes Benz in not biased.
    in my opinion yours is. still...
    i apologize for using the words fanboy.
    it was inappropriate and unnecessary.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    That's enough - keep your comments confined to the cars. Thank you.
  • Were I live it is better I don't need awd...What do you want to put up for $70,000 and what comes with it....
  • awd isn't a necessity but it does
    have some advantages. in the
    northeast it enables you use your
    sedan all year round without
    having to worry about weather.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    "If quality is lacking then problems can occure anywhere..ABS, ESP, Brake Assist or anywhere else."

    Yet since these items have been on cars from MB and every other brand sold in the U.S. there has been no such reports of anyone ABS, ESP or Brake Assist or anything like these items not working as they should. ABS has been on every car under the sun for at least 10 years or more, yet nothing has ever been shown it failing.

    Again, if you have proof of such a failure, I'd like to read about it, otherwise you're just speculating endlessly about much of nothing, its called hype.

  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    "The poster before attempts to malign the Lexus name without any proof. The only thing those links indicated was that the Lexus performs MARGINALLY worse in rear end crashes, which the tester admits usually aren't serious.

    The "problem" is that he gave the proof and as usual when it doesn't show Lexus in a good light it is glossed over and isn't important.

    "None of you acknowledge that being first in innovation isn't enough to generate profits. Prestige does not equal profits as clearly shown in the MB case. You fail to see the point that no one cares WHO built the thing first.. This is the point you all miss repeatedly.

    Very important word missing here, "you". More correctly you don't care about these things yet MB owners right here on these very boards like the fact that Mercedes was first with a lot of things, along with Volvo and other European cars that pioneered safety in modern cars. These things are part of their lure, like CR and JDP reports are a part of Lexus' twist. Its understandable that you won't care about the safety or prestige viewpoints because they don't apply to Lexus.

    What you miss that nobody here or anyone else walks into a showroom caring what Toyota's profits are. That is absurd to even suggest that. Who cares what a companies profits are as long as they aren't in danger of leaving the market and the buyer with an unservicable car, a postion MB isn't even close to being in.

    Don't no buyers care about profits of the car company they're buying from. They do care about reliability and reputation of a brand, especially a luxury brand. No you can debate which is more important to whom all day long, but people don't care squat about no profits.

  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    "Aha... I couldn't have said it any better than you just did. If the SL is a much better car than the SC, does the higher price of the SL deter its sales ? Nope. See, we do agree...."

    Well we don't really "agree" on anything except the SL being a better car. The SL is a lot newer than the SC430 also.

    "So let us extrapolate. If the S430/500 are better cars than the LS430, regardless of their higher prices, would they not sell better COMBINED than a single engined Lexus LS430 ? But we all know the reverse is the case, right ? So, it must tell you something about the incredible car the LS430 is. That it can single-handedly BEAT all S-class cars COMBINED in units sold. The LS, whether you'd like to admit it or not, is the most popular, most DESIRED mainstream full-size luxury car money can buy. Its higher sales bears this point out. If the MBs were $20K, $30K better (as currently priced), they should clobber the LS in sales."

    I'm sorry but this is bass-ackwards. It completely the 56K sticker of the LS and the 70K+ sticker of the cheapest S-Class. You have no idea what the most "desired" car in the class is, all you know is the best selling one. If price were equal, at least one Lexus fan I've seen would have bought the S, not the LS. You're ignoring price having an effect on sales like all the others here. You're trying to tie that in with whether or not the S-Class is worth the premium, which wasn't my argument.

    BTW, I don't think the S-Class is 20-30K better than the LS430, not at all. Never stated that, someone else may have, but not me.

    I have yet to understand what in the world does profit statements and other corporate matters that are matterless to a buyer factor into this. You mean to tell me that a LS is such a boring, insipid car to the point where you have to bring up profits about a car company to make a case for it? That really gets me excited, thinking about Toyotas profits, if I happen to like their new IS250350 model.

  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    "My point here is that hybrid tech trumps anything else MB has innovated in the last 15 years. Why? Because it is probably the only new technology to come along in the last 15 years (probably longer) that SIGNIFICANTLY IMPROVES BOTH FUEL ECONOMY AND SHEER PERFORMANCE. The fuel savings are a societal and environmental good.

    Who declared this to be fact or even true? The saving lives part is so far fetched and so far into the future to the point that it shouldn't even be argued here, yet. This is all guesswork. There should have been a big IMO at the end of this. Lexus has yet to even sell a single hyrbid vehicle and the Prius hasn't sold in enough numbers yet even make the smallest most minute difference any air quality anywhere at anytime. I'm surprised by all the guesswork here that you're trying to pass off as facts. Most unusual. The part you really don't want to acknowledge is that all the safety work done by MB, Volvo and others have saved lives now for over 30 years in some cases and most of this has been documented, unlike your hybrid theory.

  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    " dunno what other people think, but if Mercedes can even make their radio or head lamp work perfectly and dependable, how can i trust it can save my life with its airbags and all other advance technologies.

    You seem to be under the assumption that Mercedes is just can't do anything right and on this board, reading these posts its understandable. My first response to this would be that Mercedes pioneered these things during another era when even the JDP and CR survey/chart chasers would have been pleased with Mercedes' performance. My second response would be that these very technologies are not Mercedes' exclusives and haven't been since after the first year they were introduced. In other words they are proven technologies and to imply that such things like airbags and ABS won't because they're on a Mercedes is pure hype and not based on anything in reality. If you have proof of anything like that happening I'd like to read about it.

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