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High End Luxury Cars

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  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    I have to agree. As much as I am currently leaning toward the LS 430, this guy survived that mess by pure luck.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    I don't know about that 64% residual for the LS 430. It seems that Lexus Financial Services keeps that residual disappointingly and dishonestly low. Have you ever been quoted on a new LS 430 lease with a residual higher than 58% no matter how the car is equipped?
  • sv7887sv7887 Posts: 351
    Hi all,
    I don't lease my cars so I usually don't know about residuals up front. That number comes from a bunch of surveys studying real world car values. I think ljflx is the resident expert on this so he can probably tell you more. Based on my own experience with my old LS430 it seems to be accurate.

    SV
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    " Everytime I am in for service I see these real young looking 60's folks dropping off their LS cars. And in town the folks I know have young kids that play sports with my son. But what the heck - the people I know shouldn't count in merc1's logic but the people he doesn't know should."

    Nobody said that the people you know shouldn't count. I said that you can't pass them off to be the majority.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    This is why I don't care anything about CR because all this "predicted" stuff doesn't take into account the things an automaker could have changed from year to the next, to improve reliabilty.

    M
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Yes. There are flaws in CR's reliability predictions. It would be nice if they issued a disclaimer up front.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Thanks for providing that link. The design talk in that article is not as esoteric as one may think. All they are talking about is the new consistent Lexus look—aka design language—from the GS forward. There is nothing profound and I often find this to be the case with styling analysis. They yack about details but this usually bores me.

    The bottom line is whether the the total design—sum of the parts—works or not. Art speaks for itself and the explanations often get in the way. I often tell this to my colleagues who have the responsibility of selling the designs of my department. If you have to spend too much time explaining, the design isn’t working. Conversely, when it fires on all cylinders faces light up and little is spoken.

    Chris Bangle is always defending and explaining BMW styling. This alone is living proof that it doesn’t work in spite of his corporate brogue with which he attempts to pawn it off as almost being mystical. Terms such as "visually challenging" are often nothing more than specious rationalizations for artistic attempts that fail. BTW if anyone wants to point to BMW sales, spare me. Whatever BMW is doing with their brand auto sales, they should be doing much better.

    The issue with styling within a car brand is whether EACH model succeeds or not, and no explanations by the designer himself, the company, the press, or other pundits are going to determine this.

    According to the article the design language of the GS and IS is going to be manifest in the LS. I see this as neither good or bad news because design language means nothing by itself. Refinement and execution of the individual model is where it’s at. In my opinion said language was applied more skillfully in the IS but strayed in the GS. The situation is similar with the Infiniti G and M. It doesn’t take much to ruin something that has aesthetic potential. Anyone can take a photo of Cindy Crawford and turn her into a troll in five minutes using Photoshop. Doing the opposite is another story. It’s called art.

    It remains to be seen how the LS will come across. I can see it going either way. We will judge it when the artist signs the canvas and the piece is hung in the gallery. I can assure you that little explanation will be needed.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,663
    OAC - What it proves is the whole car buying world has been stupid for decades. We should have all been buying Volvo's since day one.

    This really shows how desperate the MB crowd has gotten to offset Lexus success. They have to hear that they have the best brand and the best car despite survey data that ranks them 31st out of 32 brands in the motherland.

    When you see something like an S430 is ten-fold as athletic as an LS430 and when you see quotes that the consumer world that ranks Lexus a lot higher in quality has to be ignorant - then you know the conversation has reached absurd levels.

    So let's just say yes they do have the best brand and absolute best cars and end this misery. Meanwhile we'll keep being ignorant in our future purchases and take ejerod's advice. Here's that link one last time starting with post 1686. Post 1683 is interesting to.

    bobcatman, "Mercedes-Benz S-Class" #1673, 21 Jan 2005 3:07 pm
  • denaliinpadenaliinpa Posts: 169
    i have yet to read a post where anyone has
    called the LS430 "unsafe". what i have read
    is posters pointing out the different philosophies between Lexus and MB when it comes to safety. i certainly would prefer to be in a LS430 than many other cars in the event of a crash but if given the choice between the LS and the S i would without any reservation prefer the S.

    maybe someone can lend some light on this. when an automaker pioneers a new safety technology it seems to me that they might patent the technology but yet allow other automakers to use it. does anyone know how this process works?

    hpowders....if your still on the fence and you haven't already give the A8 swb a test drive. sporty, safe, and comfortable all at the same time!
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Yes. Still on the fence. Have 'til July. We'll see.
    Thanks.
  • That's just another reason to NOT have one!

    What's going to happen more often to most drivers; a high speed crash or a radiator hose lets go all of a sudden?????

    Still a fact that none of the imports can run 50 miles at 50MPH with zero coolant. Chaulk another one up for the NorthStar.
  • HP:

    The 14 cryteria do not include the drive train..because CR says there is generally very few problems in that area....the X means there is likely a problem in the reliability of the Drive train that will effect it's overall reliability..They say this generally happens in vehicles with 4wd...

    In the most current issue of CR see the page prior to the ratings and you can read the explination for yourself.
  • I have yet to see a LINK with safety data Proving the S Class is safer then the LS 430...You would think a German car guy would find something like that...IF IT EXISTS.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Yes, I saw it buried in the small print-the drive system.
    Thanks, Michael.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Your comment is ludicrous and inappropriate.
  • sv7887sv7887 Posts: 351
    Hi All,
    I don't care what car you're in, if you hit a concrete beam at 60 MPH there is no way you're walking away from that one. That crash is being investigated in the UK right now as part of some special commission..

    I think it's a testament to Mercedes engineering that the bodyguard survived that horrific crash. Also, the rear seat passengers were NOT wearing their seatbelts. Mercedes' safety innovations aren't going to help anyone if they're not buckled in!!

    We all know Mercedes is the class leader in safety (or is it Volvo?) The question posed in this forum is whether a LS430 would fare as well..There is no hard data to confirm or deny the conclusion that it would or would not.

    Does Mercedes innovate first when it comes to safety? Yes. Does the addition of an rear side airbag make a car safer than another? Conflicting data on that one. As the small car crash data showed, the cars equipped with them standard did worse than the Corolla optionally equipped with them. The Corolla did fare poorly without the airbags..So there is no clear answer here.

    It can be assumed all of these cars are built to a very high spec safety wise. You do get what you pay for. I'd feel equally safe in a XJ8, LS, 7 Series, Phaeton, A8, or S Class. They're all built like tanks. It'd be interesting for someone to crash all these cars (Quite expensive too) and find out if anyone stands out from the rest.

    My guess is that they'll all do comparably well. Much like that small car comparo no one would really stand out. I was expecting the Volkswagen New Beetle to win that crash test. I've been in one a few times and it feels solid. It was surprising that the Corolla did the best..I've always regarded the Corolla as a tin can. As tiag_m5 pointed out my postulation about "plastic" cars not being as safe is in fact false.

    SV
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    To infer culpability in Princess Di's death on Mercedes is ludicrous and ignorant.
    She was not wearing a seat belt so at that insane and irresponsible speed inside a tunnel she would not have survived in any car. Perhaps she would have survived if she was wearing one. Yes even in a Mercedes.
    By the way, in this month's CR Auto issue, both the Mercedes E320 and S430 are rated better in accident avoidance than the Lexus LS 430.
  • Do you know what they measure for accident avoidance? Is it consumers input or the amount of accindent avoidance tech in the car?
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    The auto engineers can only do so much. Humans have to work with the technology. You get in an accident and you're not wearing a seatbelt, how dumb is that?
  • sv7887sv7887 Posts: 351
    Hi all,
    Here's an interesting article on safety features:
    http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/WEBONLY/publicfeature/sep01/intel.html

    It shows that alot of the work is being done in both the US and Japan. Not terribly surprising.

    http://www.consumerreports.org/main/detailv4.jsp?CONTENT%3C%3Ecnt_id=113369&FOLDER%3C%3Efo- lder_id=113261&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=333137

    This indicates the criteria used for judging accident avoidance. (Braking and Handling) I know the braking performance of the LS is on par with everyone else, but we're all aware of the handling performance compared to the others.

    Were the E320 and S430 4-Matics by chance? I think another consideration is profile..The LS isn't a low slung car like the MB counterparts. That probably doesn't improve the handling situation either. How did other marques compare to Mercedes? And how different was the performance for the LS and S?

    Thanks,
    SV
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