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High End Luxury Cars

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  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    MB and BMW's are filled with all sorts of useless gimmicks. Try Steer by Wire and Night Vision

    I didn't know Mercedes had "Steer by Wire"! Thats news to me. Which model would that be?

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    MB/AMG, with all their prowress in engine refinement and tuning, could only muster 382HP out of a 5.5L powerplant. Lexus did that with a 4.6L motor. Advantage Lexus.

    For the time being yeah, you're right advantage Lexus.

    The new S550 has a 1500-song capacity disk. The new LS460 has 4,000-capacity song. Advantage Lexus

    Whooptie do, guess that is a deal breaker. Pluhlease.

    The new S550 tops out at 7000rpm, the new LS460 tops out at 8000rpm. Advantage Lexus.

    Now if you can tell me what that advantage is I'll be truly impressed. You want a luxury car engine to rev to 8000 rpm? Please give us the technical details as to why this is an "advantage".

    The new S550 has a 7-speed cog, the new LS460 has an 8-speed. Advantage Lexus

    Yes, this is correct if the projected MPG numbers hold up in the real world. The problem I have here OAC is that when Mercedes upped the class with a 7-Speed all the Lexusfans did was say it was a meaningless innovation and was no advancement at all, yet the 7-speed has proven itself over and over, just like I'm sure Lexus' 8-speed will do.

    Auto park in the LS460. None on the S550. Advantage Lexus

    Advantage to who? Those who can't park a car? For people who love this type of thing I guess this will be a deal maker right?

    Get the point.... And this is before release. Lexus is deliberately withholding info until March, a month before the S goes on sale, so that MB cannot scoop them, and so they can take the thunder out of the S release. What a juggernaut Lexus is going to be against the Germans.

    Wrong, wrong and wrong. The S-Class goes on sale in Feb here in the U.S and has been on sale since Sept in Europe. If anyone waited to see what the other was going to do it was Lexus. They've had 5-6 months to study the S-Class and up it in areas like that hard drive and what not. Lexus is the one that waits to see what Mercedes is going to do. Not even you can deny that.

    And 12 months later, MY2008, comes the LS600h with like 470hp/500Ibft, and a fuel economy of a V6. LWB, hybrid, AWD, the features list will be long indeed... Priced in the $90K range. What a car that will be...

    All speculation unless you have the info on this?

    M
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    Merc1, you stated this:

    "...Now I supposed since the LS,IS and GS all look alike, but done in different sizes...

    Let's put these to test here:

    IS350
    image

    GS300
    image

    LS460
    image

    Must be hard to differentiate these cars from each other, eh ? Well, what about the MB C/E/S ???? Wanna see how they look, compared to the Lexus family look ???
  • how much will do you think a loaded ls460-l will cost?? i'm thinkin about getting that or the s450 in the spring but right now i think the lexus has the advantage value wise.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    I remember the Lexus talk about the SC 430, and how it was the end of the Mercedes SL. But, what REALLY happened?

    My point here is that the new LS is likely to succeed, but don't take so much for granted. The styling is very nice, but is it drop-dead gorgeous, and does it have staying power? Or will the similar and familiar Lexus look start to get boring over time?

    As far as the S-Class goes, I have said from the beginning that the wheel well arches do not bother me, and, in fact, are looking better and better with time. They are going to be a distinctive look that may very well set a new styling trend in the industry. Lexus fans . . . do not be so over-confident. I agree the LS is poised for success, but I do NOT agree it will cause the undoing of the S-Class in ANY way. This new S-Class is going to be a hit, and I am on record as saying such.

    You all know that I have expressed that I believe that Lexus has BMW in its crosshairs. I'm more concerned that the impact to the market made by the LS will be felt more by BMW this time around.

    TagMan
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    A-class
    image

    E-class
    image

    SLK
    image

    C-class
    image

    S-class
    image

    Leaves no doubt, does it ?
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Gorgeous, till the end of time . . . every blessed one of them (except the A).
    TagMan
  • garyh1garyh1 Posts: 386
    Just hearing the name Chrysler Imperial brings back an early childhood memory. One night (somewhere around 1960) my grandfather came over with his new Imperial. He took us for a ride over the bumpiest road in the area to demonstrate the "TorsionAire" (sp?) suspension system. Talk about floating on air!
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    You mean to tell me that those cars don't all have the same look in different sizes? I didn't think that even you were that biased! Those cars looks more alike than they do different just like any family of MB/BMW/Audi/Jaguar cars do. Lexus is no different now, yet you're going to try and say they are? OK.

    Lexus does the same thing as MB, BMW, Audi and Jaguar. After all the talk and put downs about the S looking like a C and a X-Type looking like alike, looking at the LS and IS puts an end to that nonsense.

    BTW, I'm still waiting on what the "advantage" is for Lexus having a V8 that can rev to 8000 rpm? Due tell!

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    We can debate all day long as to whether Idrive, Park Assist and what not are "gimmicks". In the end it really doesn't matter because this is where the luxury car is going and more importantly it keeps luxury cars above "regular" cars. I don't consider it "copying" when one company adds a feature to one of their cars that a competitor already had - that is common sense.

    My problem is that Lexus didn't have to try and make their flagship car LOOK like the competiton all these years up until now. That is truthfully my only issue. Car companys do take ideas and technology from each other all the time that is nothing new, but they don't have to make their cars look like the competition too. Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar, Audi, Bentley, Cadillac, Infiniti, and now Lexus have their own styling identies for the most part and that is great IMO. It is about time Lexus quit making their flagship car (their greatest car) in the mold of its greatest competitor with regards to styling - not technology.

    I honestly don't know why Lexus doesn't play up their Japanese heritage more often. A European car company would never do a brochure for one of their cas like Lexus did for the IS. Things like that cheapen the brand in the eyes of people that care about such things.

    When not in defense mode I can freely admit I'm just as intrigued as any Lexus fan at the thought of 380hp and 8 foward gears! Mercedes did the same thing back in 1989 with the world's first 5-speed automatic and again in 2003 with the first 7-speed automatic - leapfrogging via innovation and technology is the name of the game in the luxury car business. This practice has nothing to do with styling, again which was my only big issue with Lexus.

    Even when Germancarfans (or at least I do) admit the obvious Lexusfans can't admit the obvious like; Lexus changing their styling to a singular theme across their lineup - it makes the debates pointless and endless.

    M
  • brightness04brightness04 Posts: 3,151
    IMHO, much of the cliche about the original Lexus LS was made to look like existin MB model was due to the fact that was the generic luxury car look, since circa 1906: slab side, broad shoulder and high belt line. MB just happened to dominate the luxury car market around 1989, immediately before the launch of LS400. If you look at the pictures of 1989 LS400 and 1989 420SE side by side, the difference is very pronounced: different hood proportions, different grill size/shape and different head light configurations etc. In fact, the lines on the 1989 420SE is much more dated and musty 80's compared to the more cleanly flowing lines of 1989 LS400. It would not even be a stretch to argue that MB, BMW and Audi all took ideas from those flowing rounded lines from the original LS400 in their own susequent designs. For what it's worth, when BMW entered the car market and subsequently putting together a marketting niche called "sport sedan," it "copied" heavily from the styles of other brands with sporty heritages, such as Jaguar, Bentley and Pontiac, for those double-kidney grills and quad headlights, as well as the long hood. Those are just what people expected of sporting machines, like the slab side, broad shoulder and high belt-lines that were expected of luxury cars when Lexus introduced the original LS420.

    There are two obvious reasons why Lexus does not play up its Japanese heritage:
    (1) Lexus is a brand with only a decade and half of history; they are trying to sell a Lexus not a Toyota.
    (2) IS is being marketted in Japan this time. In the land of parkers not drivers (one statistic says that if all Japanese car owners tried to drive at the same time, there would not be enough road space for them all!), European cars are extremely popular . . . plus the previous generation IS was a stripped down hopped up Toyota for the youth in their home market. Not exactly a bragging point.

    One point well take: while Lexus has the first 8sp automatic, MB had the first 5sp and 7sp . . . GM had the very first automatic, period; and for a long time was the only one who knew how to build a good automatic . . . hence the Cadillac domination of the free world HELM during the first three decades after WWII.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Thats pretty weak Lexusguy, still grasping at straws here. Even I'll admit that the GL isn't the most distincive Benz around. Still handsome though. All of this because I pointed out the LS460/Camry connection?

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    All of that about 1906 goes back a way bit before my time. Lexus' original LS400 was rounder than the German iron of the day for sure, but the overall presentation made you think "Mercedes". Sure the individual details were different, but the whole thing screamed Mercedes overall. Thats why Lexus got the copy rep from not only the press, but buyers alike. The 2001 LS430 only made it worse. Now that they've adopted a singular theme across their lineup the Mercedes look-a-like era has ended with this new LS. Now the diehard BMW fans may have something to say about it, but that isn't my debate.

    It would be way more than a stretch to say that Audi/BMW/MB got anything from Lexus in the way of styling. Audi in particular went aero in the 80's and changed car design long before Lexus even came to market. Either way none of them ever looked liked a Lexus then or now.

    M
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    BMW Assist is a great thing to have if you ever need it.
    BMW has done a fabulous job in making sure people like me don't need it.
    Its quality at this point going forward (not looking backward as CR does) is right up there with the best.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,679
    Tagman - It's a guarantee the new car will be a smash succes and class leader in sales. The past gen cars have dominated that spot - often by wide margins - in 15 of the last 17 years. Saying it will succeed is like saying it'll be mild in summer.
  • As far as Lexus cars looking alike, if you look at the cars, in profile, they definitely look much different from each other. The GS has a more rounded profile. The IS is full of particularly sharp styling cues, and is heavily starched, without becoming an Acura TL. The LS falls in between. So I'm not seeing it either, Merc. A crease here or there, but that's it.

    I like the GS the least (but it is acceptable), I like the IS the most, and the LS is great because it is a quantum leap from where it was, and it's competition has fallen off the table.

    If anything, Mercedes is now cultivating a image of plagirism, with the S-Class taking on wheel humps, the Maybachs' rear end, the Accord's headlights, and the 7's dash.

    And the ML has obviously learned quite a bit from the original RX300.

    All I have to say about the Camry is it has many cues from the Corolla/Yaris/Avalon. It is not my cup of tea.

    When the '92 Camry came out, yeah, that was obviously a descendant of the LS.

    Those days are over. If you can find anything in the Camry exterior that says 2007 LS, good luck!

    The Camry interior does shares a similar overall theme, though.

    DrFill
  • ideleidele Posts: 200
    While in Paris last November I saw the S class at the MB showroom on the Champs-'Elys'ees. Also daily there were always a couple of them parked in front of the Ritz as I walked by. The previous S had a sleek tailored look that was very attractive. The new S seems to revert to the bulky style of the S preceding that one.
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    Well, I don't see as much similarity between the 07 LS and 07 Camry as you do.

    But let's say you're right (for the sake of arguement, and I'd still like to hear an unbiased opinion for instance from designman), and the Camry is a clone. What makes it ok for the S to copy the Maybach butt, but not ok for the Camry to copy the LS butt?

    I guess it is acceptable when a German company does it, but not acceptable when a Japanese company does it?
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    Jim Press, president of Toyota's U.S. sales unit, said the Japanese auto maker is studying a simple switch, or lever, that the driver can turn or pull to choose between two different settings for a hybrid powertrain: "green" or "power." WSJ source (subscribers)
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,679
    Note the View from Here line. Apparently Lexus doesn't think much of the A8 as it excludes Audi completely by considering only two German competitors. Note also the price issue. This will probably be a car that tops out in the 75K-79K range in a fully loaded LWB edition, 65-70K in the SWB edition and probably in the 85-95K range in the hybrid version where there will be some goodies avaialable that are not available in the gas cars. Merc1 may not like the styling but everyone else does.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/08/automobiles/autospecial/lexus-LS460.html

    This is on the Imperial which apparently is no certainty for production. IMO - it would be a hit but probably at the expense of the 300. Definitely a poor mans replica of a Rolls if it makes it to the showroom.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/09/automobiles/autospecial/chrysler-imperial.html- - - - - -

    Audi seems to even have the press confused with the A6/S6 names.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/09/automobiles/audi-a6.html

    Lastly - Audi roadjet. Lot better looking than the Benz R but that grille has goota to be tuned down. The perfect description line of the grille of all Audis is in the article. Still hoping Lexus builds that HPX. It was the most beautiful design of all these cars.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/10/automobiles/autospecial/audi-roadjet.html
  • scott1256scott1256 Posts: 531
    If Lexus adds wheel arches to the LS when they facelift it, remember: Tagman predicted it.

    It wouldn't surprise me - stranger things have happened!
  • lexusilexusi Posts: 65
    note this,
    "Individual DVD monitors for rear-seat passengers"

    source:
    http://www.businessweek.com/autos/autobeat/

    well, will it have one headline monitor or individual monitors for each passagner as in the case of a first class airline?? thats wierd becoz Mr. Press said the same in the video "indiviual DVD systems"

    this means it may have 2 dvds?? anyone think so?

    Lexus Era

    Lexusi
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Driving to u appears to be a simple process of getting from point A to point B, w/out worrying if you actually make it there safe

    Driving pleasure at the expense of safety?
    Did I ever say that in any post?
    Are you suggesting that dumbed down technology as Park-Assist is a safety technology?
    I did not know airbags or PCS reduces driving pleasure? Maybe you can explain that idea to me?

    Driving safety starts with the driver and when a driver becomes too dependent on a gizmo then safety will really become an issue.
  • lexusilexusi Posts: 65
    Read This, LOOK AT LEXUS PERFECTION, look to attention to details, u germans suckerss!!!

    "Lexus introduced the LS460 here, a replacement for its flagship LS430 now in showrooms. All I have to say is...what could they possibly have left out"

    this one is funny, just wow Japanese, GIVE ME A BREAK!!!

    "ON top of all that, Toyota chief Jim Press tells me that all the wood in each car was sourced from the same tree to achieve perfect consistency"

    "And...the opening of the cup-holder and ash tray were calibrated to emerge from their console pods at exactly the same speed"

    Source:

    http://www.businessweek.com/autos/autobeat/


    Lexus Era

    Lexusi
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    oac, are you trying to start a fire? For goodness sakes, you are basically saying that German car fans should drive nothing more than an original VW Beetle!

    It appears that is precisely what oac is saying.
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    If A/C were optional, would you and hdpowders take it or not on a BMW? After all, it adds weight and uses engine power, both to the detriment of pure performance.
  • lexusilexusi Posts: 65
    LOL, thats funny, good for envirnoment!!! yah and combined 18 MPG is also good for environment, hmm but hybrids are not good for envirnoment, same goes for the combined mid 20s MPG, becoz Japanese did that not germans,

    Germans are the last to know whats good for the envirnoment, dont play that role, it doesnt fit u !

    Lexusi
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    No A/C?

    Was that option not available on the old VW Beetle?

    Purists do not wear straight jackets with delusions of driving in a race track while sitting in their padded cell.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Sorry for the confusion but I had eliminated that post since some forum members here may take it a bit too seriously ;)
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