Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





High End Luxury Cars

1409410412414415771

Comments

  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Don’t bristle or respond to this latest bag of bluster. They’ll never get it. Never.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Say what you will. The simple fact is the BMW 760Li will most likely run rings around the Toyota LS460 pseudo-luxo-barge.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    How can so many people be so wrong about so little?

    Designman is unfortunately correct:
    The Lexicans will never get it.

    A simple prescription:
    Drive the BMW 760Li for yourselves instead of just regurgitating stuff you read somewhere, like I took the time to drive your incredibly over-rated LS 430.
    Then come back here and we'll talk.
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    Designman is unfortunately correct:
    The Lexicans will never get it.


    Never get what? That "driving dynamics" are only thing that matter in a High End Luxury Sedan? Uhhh...if that's the case in your eyes, then as Lexusguy suggested, why are you raving about the 7 and not the Quattroporte?

    As far as your comparison of the 760 to the LS460, please remember that we know next to nothing about the LS600h.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    Hey, Merc1 doesn't even own a Mercedes but his posts about Mercedes and the other HELM's are always among the most articulate and penetrating on this thread.
    Just because I drive a 545i doesn't exclude me from posting here despite what you think.
    Since when is what someone drives a prerequisite to posting on the HELM board?


    How did you come into this conclusion, Howard ? Just when I thought we were becoming friends, now you just blow it all out of proportion. I simply quoted you that you don't care much for luxury, you said as much yourself, right. So why beat on me for echoing your words ? And being a fan of Merc1 doesn't mean I have to be as well....

    Let's be honest. The LS is nothing more than an over-priced Toyota and Toyota has done you Lexicans a favor by making the Camry and LS almost indistinguishable in style to help remind you of this fact.

    An overpriced Toyota, eh ? Good one. But I thought you wanted to give the car a spin, No ? Now it appears you are bitter against it, slaming it. Won't be the first time a German fan has called all Lexus vehicles as over-priced Toyota.... Now Lexus (ehm, overpriced Toyota) is the #1 selling luxury nameplate in America. Good for them...

    From here on in, I will always refer to this car as what it really is: the 2007 Toyota LS 460.

    You'll be in a single digit minority on that one.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    The Quattroporte is considerably more money and its drive train goes out of the luxury realm with sport, from the high-revving engine to the sequential gearbox. The reviews knocked it for city driving. It’s a tuner barge. Furthermore, service access is limited, extremely limited. So the 7-Series/Quattroporte comparisons aren’t very convincing.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    "The Lexicans have fallen for the biggest dupe in marketing:
    Rebadging a Toyota and calling it something else to pretend it's now a "Luxury Vehicle." "

    Yet, you *supposedly* went out and almost bought a GS430!

    The Lexicans have fallen for the biggest dupe, or the europhiles have fallen for the biggest dupe? Huh...questions, questions.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    When is the S class being launched in the US?
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,687
    Actually he thought it was a great car and wanted it badly. But he's just toying around and having fun with these posts now, don't take them seriously.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    I remember when he was cross-shopping. He got caught in the Lexican frenzy until he drove the GS… whoa... pop went the balloon, end of show… it ain’t no BMW. Hence he bought the 545.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    For a very good reason.
    I have never driven a Quattroporte.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    And was that GS a huge disappointment.
    No "soul" as they say in Metaphysics 101.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    This is how I'd rank the exteriors and interiors in this class.

    Exterior:

    1) S550: 9
    2) A8: 8
    3) LS460: 6
    4) 750i: 4

    Interior:

    1) LS460: 8
    1) A8: 8
    3) S550: 7
    4) 750i: 6

    (I'm not a BMW hater btw... I think the 3 series is the best looking car in its class.)
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    When I slam a vehicle, I make sure I have driven it several times.
    What can I say? I didn't feel the LS was worth $60k+.
    I had an open mind about it and wanted to like it but didn't due to the reasons I have previously posted.
    I plan on driving the LS460 when it hits the showrooms.
    If I see driving improvments over the LS430, I will say so.
    We can still be friends-sort of like Bush and Chavez. ;)
  • many delarships already have the black/balck s550 demo. they should be offcially on sale next month. the s450 will come out a couple months after that in the spring.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    I didn't almost buy a GS430. I was given an incredible leasing offer probably because I showed the salesman such lukewarm interest.
    Even that very good offer wasn't enough to put me in the driver's seat of what I consider to be an inferior automobile.

    The key point is: I have an open mind. I will drive any LPS or HELM from any company.
    I want to be impressed.
    So far the only company that has done so is BMW.
    What do you want me to say?
  • douglasrdouglasr Posts: 191
    Lexus came to America as an export model only, not available in Japan initially. That allowed Toyota to beat the World Trade Organisation regulations and gain market share by selling it undervalued for $38,500 in America. Moribund products from Cadillac and Lincoln handed customers to Lexus. Today the story is different, while the LS460 may be packed with equipment, it is: BORING. Cadillac, with Simon Cox at least is trying; Lincoln is seemingly lost with new designs in the pipleine from Messrs. Horbury and J. Mays; BMW's Haptic Approach to design has won them many new customers they never had; Mercedes has dollowed their lead. No matter how you cut it, Toyota is afraid to enter the very top reaches of the market even though they want 15% of the global market. So they satisfy themselves with moderate designs packed with equipment and (hopefully) fail-safe reliabiliy. But that leaves it all to BMW, Mercedes, Cadillac (they're trying), Bentley, and Rolls-Royce. Mr. Zetsche will hammer back with Imperial: and the V-10 is what they need to put the pedal to the metal against Lexus, and maybe the nail in the Lincoln coffin. Lexus might be a fine premium sedan, but it is NOT at the top of the market.

    DouglasR
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,687
    "while the LS460 may be packed with equipment, it is: BORING"

    So you sat in one and drove one and know that it's boring huh?
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    I'm just curious . . . does the Lexus LS460 excite the SENSES or the INTELLECT?
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I think the comparison is quite reasonable. Start putting options on a 750, and its not that much cheaper than a Quattroporte. The LS460 is comparable to the S550, is it not? There's a huge price difference there as well.

    Maser's latest SMG is reasonably smooth in full-auto mode, (not quite as good as Audi's DSG, but better than any other SMG I've tried). I didnt know a high-revving engine cant be in a luxury car. What does service access have to do with anything? Is there a Bentley or RR dealer on every corner? Does that mean those arent luxury cars either?

    Fact is, the 750i cant compete with the Maser. BMW would need a Motorsport version with an SMG or a stick to even try.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,687
    Don't have time to dig up your posts but I remember very well you saying you loved the GS and had to have the car and that was after you drove it several times. If I remember right it was the lower Bimmer price and more comfortable seat - hardly performance issues - that got you in the 545. That's why I hardly take your recent posts seriously. It's you just trying to wrankle some folks and have fun.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    All of the comments from the German guys that Lexus some how doesnt have the "right" to exist as a luxury car company because of Toyota are rediculous. The EXACT same thing could be said about Audi and VW. Furthermore, just because of the fact that a company like Mercedes builds all of their vehicles under one badge doesnt make them "better" or more righteous than any other automaker. Mercedes builds commercial trucks, and of course the cheapie A-class and B-class, cars that, if on sale in the US, would compete with Toyotas.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    When I slam a vehicle, I make sure I have driven it several times. What can I say? I didn't feel the LS was worth $60k+. I had an open mind about it and wanted to like it but didn't due to the reasons I have previously posted.

    Open mind, eh ? OK... I'll grant you that. But what did you expect if you've been driving a 3-series for 12 years and suddenly test drive a GS430 and an LS430 ???? These cars are not even remotely close to what a 3-series is. I am curious what you'd expect the GS and LS to drive like, since these cars are mid- to large-sized sedans, with little to no sporting pretensions relative to a small, compact 3-series.... I don't see a 3-er driver kicking the tires of a GS/LS and coming out raving about how they drive... not gonna happen...

    Like Bush and Chavez ??? Eekkkeee, u must not like me at all... Why ???
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    Mercedes builds commercial trucks, and of course the cheapie A-class and B-class, cars that, if on sale in the US, would compete with Toyotas.

    MB also builds zillions of cheapie C, E and S cars that litter the roads of Europe as taxi-cabs. You can see plenty of them at European airports... I've ridden in many of them on business trips. I suggest some of you German fans take a trip to Europe and see things for yourself about your MB, BMW and Audi cars on taxi cab ranks... If MB sells any of these cheapie ones here, there luxury marque brand name will suffer greatly in brand-conscious America... They are no different from Toyota, but you won't find the Celsior (LS430) on every street corner in Tokyo as a taxi cab. You'll find the Celsior taxi/limo at the high-end hotels, like you'll find some S500 or Maybach.
  • bdr127bdr127 Posts: 950
    An overpriced Toyota, eh ? Good one. But I thought you wanted to give the car a spin, No ? Now it appears you are bitter against it, slaming it. Won't be the first time a German fan has called all Lexus vehicles as over-priced Toyota.... Now Lexus (ehm, overpriced Toyota) is the #1 selling luxury nameplate in America. Good for them...

    We've been over this before, but both BMW and MB blow Lexus away in US car sales. (2005 Sales: BMW=197k / MB=183k / Lexus=151k)

    The RX330, by itself, sold over 100k units last year. In fact, Lexus actually sold more SUVs last year than cars..... However, BMW sold more X5s than Lexus did their GX470 (37k to 34k).

    Total sales, of course, pushes Lexus up to 300k, BMW to 266k, and MB to 224k.

    So, really, if you take only one vehicle out of the entire Lexus equation (RX330), things are entirely different and the results quite flip-flopped. Interesting to think about...
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    We've been over this before, but both BMW and MB blow Lexus away in US car sales...

    #1 Luxury Nameplate in America... And you come back with car sales... So a nameplate is only about cars ??? Yep, German car fans discount anything that doesn't advance their argument... like it doesn't exist, eh ?

    Take away RX330/400h sales to reduce Lexus sales #s, eh ? Yep... Since it will advance the point you are trying to make, which doesn't hold water, as you yourself proved with the ~40K lead in sales over the nearest BMW competitor.

    BTW, how many of the 266K cars/SUVs from BMW were 3-er sales ??? So why not take away the 3-series # and see where that leaves BMW in total sales ???
  • bdr127bdr127 Posts: 950
    #1 Luxury Nameplate in America... And you come back with car sales... So a nameplate is only about cars ??? Yep, German car fans discount anything that doesn't advance their argument... like it doesn't exist, eh ? Pls count the SUVs as well, afterall they are badged as their other car siblings.

    My point was that it was interesting to note that if you simply removed the RX330, Lexus' standing is much different.... Try not to take that as an insult. I'm just pointing out the numbers.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    I don't recall ever saying I loved the GS.
    I do remember at the time saying the steering was wishy-washy, the brakes were too grabby and I couldn't get comfortable in the driver's seat.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,687
    How bout we take the 3-series off of BMW and see how things look. Very silly argument that doesn't hold water and actually exposes stupid management decisions by the Germans to miss the biggest growth segment in automotive history.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    A high-end luxury performance sedan certainly has the credentials to be a HELM, but so does a sumptuous cruising barge, IMO. The argument that one and only one can claim bragging rights is pointless. The perfect garage would certainly contain some GREAT performance vehicles and ALSO some GREAT CRUISERS . . . at least MINE would.
    TagMan
Sign In or Register to comment.