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High End Luxury Cars

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Comments

  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Well for me it has historically been Mercedes, Ferrari, BMW, Porsche and Audi. Recently Porsche and Audi have moved ahead of BMW on my desireability scale. Though I still want certain BMWs. Still though I just like European cars in general the most. From Japan INC. I still like Acura, but Infiniti is #1 out of Japan for me now.

    M
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    As far as the rice-burners go, I like Acura, too. I have a hard time liking Nissan, though. Even back when they were marketed here under the Datsun nameplate, they were never as good as the Toyotas, truthfully. And I still think that they are not as good a product in terms of engineering and quality. The newest Acuras, BTW, according to Honda corporate, will be true Acuras (not Honda derivatives) starting with each new model from now on.

    To me, the most significant thing coming out of Japan, Inc. is the hybrid. They will kick serious hybrid butt for a while, and I truly applaud them for it. Of course, things will change over time.

    On a side note, I am SO freakin' anxious for the Mercedes diesels to hit all the models in all the states.
    TagMan
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    we're getting way too personal, folks. You can not like what someone else has to say, but responding in a personal manner is not the thing to do. Let's keep our comments focused on the cars and the marques and not each other.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Acura is nice, but I've only really started to notice their products within the past few years. The one car Acura got right in the beginning was the Legend, and then they took a huge step backwards with the RL, which they then took a decade to replace. The fact that the last NSX off of the line had basically the 1991 interior was also rather pathetic. They didnt even bother to change the "ACURA" logo on the steering wheel. Their pre-'04 interiors were also painfully cost cut.

    The most interesting thing by far that Acura has done lately is the turbocharged RDX sport ute. The four in the TSX could really use that turbo.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    From what I've seen, I like the RDX quite a bit, and expect it to sell well, IF they stay in the 30's as planned. Lots of latest features included for the $. Should also get decent MPG, which is getting to be more and more significant to car buyers at all tiers now.
  • scott1256scott1256 Posts: 531
    Manufacturers don't only reach the people who attend the show.

    Thanks to the internet, details of new cars and concept cars along with rumors from the show are reported in real time.

    Think of how many people the various Edmunds topics about the Detroit show have reached.

    All this adds up to a lot of free pubilicity.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    Exactly! That's MILLIONS of advertising dollars saved! The price for an auto show display is paltry in comparison.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Also, its only real competition at this point is the BMW X3, which it should undercut by thousands. I think Benz has backed off of the B-class in the US for exchange rate reasons, and Lexus, Infiniti, and VW are still working on their challengers.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Good point. The new RAV4 will likely be considered by the mags to be a competitor, but it's not nearly the vehicle. The RDX could be a MUCH bigger hit than expected.

    The Acura name will improve, I believe, with new models such as the RDX, and next generation MDX, (NSX will only be an icon model), but a really GREAT flagship may still be a ways off. In the Japanese luxury arena, Lexus is practically untouchable, IMO.

    TagMan
  • bdr127bdr127 Posts: 950
    Good point. The new RAV4 will likely be considered by the mags to be a competitor, but it's not nearly the vehicle. The RDX could be a MUCH bigger hit than expected.

    There is no way that people shopping for BMW, MB, and Acura would lump Toyota (not Lexus) into their small SUV search. The RAV4 appears to be a nice vehicle, but it isn't (and isn't meant to be) in the same class as those others. To consider the RAV4 a competitor to the X3, maybe the B-Class(?), the RDX, and even the RX330, is just crazy....
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I agree, the RAV doesnt count. Its fairly nice in Limited trim, but nobody is going to call it a "luxury" cute ute. The RAV competes in a pretty full class, CR-V, Murano, Forester, etc. The compact, luxury SUV segment is new, and for the moment your choice is the X3, or the X3.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Just TODAY, a friend of mine, who's wife wants a small SUV, looked into the new RAV4, and discovered that it was not available with navigation. He asked me if I had an opinion on an alternative for his wife, and I happened to mention the upcoming RDX. I showed him the info on the Acura website and he lit up.

    So, while I agree that they are not in the same league, it is clear to me that people WILL climb the ladder to get to a higher tier. And, as I mentioned, you can BET the auto rags will have some crazy mized up SUV "head to head" comparos of different models. They always do.

    Read my original statement carefully and note that I clearly said the RAV4 is "not nearly the vehicle" (as the RDX). And, of course, the X3, etc.

    Just a note: this is not really HELM material, IMO, but I want to be courteous and reply, so this is my last post on this.

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Considering all the news generated by Ford today, I am wondering what they intend to do about Jaguar?
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    The new S-Class is a serious vehicle. I can't wait to test it. The Jaguar as a "vehicle" is not in the toilet, but the company financials are perhaps. The latest generation Jaguar XJ series is a beautiful car and receives many great reviews. I love the XJ. The Audi will continue to improve, IMO, but I would not buy one. The BMW's are respectable, and I like many things about them, but I am not a BMW buyer at this point. The Lexus LS is a viable choice, as I have said, but I have not liked the styling up to now. At this point it is too early for me to rule out the LS460 because I have not had the opportunity to put it to the test. When I do that I will make up my mind. I'm not thrilled about the pics so far. If I WERE to consider the Lexus, I would ONLY consider the long wheelbase version or the hybrid.
    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    There is no real forum category that I am aware of for discussions about Luxury SUV's. I am still interested in the Mercedes GL diesel variant. I keep getting mixed information about the availability of the diesel in the U.S., but I am fairly confident it will show up eventually, but am concerned that it will not be cleaned up enough for California's (and some other states as well) tough standards. Lexus SUV's are totally based on the Toyota platforms, and, while very nice, they've got those Mickey Mouse third row flip-flop seats. The new Mercedes GL, however, will have fold-flat power third row seats. That's the right way to do it. I've got to believe that Lexus will address this dysfunctional shortcoming in future models. But, just what ARE their future SUV's? This is definately one area where I would seriously consider a Lexus, IF IF IF they could only build a civilized third row seat.
    TagMan
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I agree. I used to rely on Autoweek for fast and timely news, but even then you have to wait a whole week for a new issue. With the net once a press release or new photos are released they pop up instantly somewhere.

    M
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    It gives me no joy to tell you all that I have decided to take leave of EDMUNDS on a permanent basis. I will miss the forum, the debate, the passion, the good and the bad times, but I need to move on. To my fellow Lexicans, pls keep up the *fight*, and to Germancarfans, don't let up :) Its the give-n-take that has made this forum one of the very best on Edmunds. I plan to not return or even bother to visit Edmunds. Sad as that may be, but a decision that is long overdue for me personally.

    Maybe we'll *see* each other elsewhere away from Edmunds... I look forward to that...
  • scott1256scott1256 Posts: 531
    "In what has been common knowledge....Toyota announced on Monday that it would compete in the 2007 NASCAR NEXTEL Cup Series using the Camry name..."

    Think of the sensation Toyota would make if they used an ES 330 instead of the Camry!

    A hotrod Lexus loaded with shine outrunning the revenuers in the hills of Georgia........
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Scott,
    Now THAT sounds like fun . . . I'm going to stock up on the mosquito repellent right now! :D
    TagMan
  • scott1256scott1256 Posts: 531
    I was just kidding: I don't see Lexus in NASCAR.

    But: what if someone had predicted 5 years ago that Toyota would join NASCAR?
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    I thought you're idea was funny. I was kidding too.

    Remember the days with the races like the "Camel GT"?
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    There's not much going on with Lexus SUVs right now, they are busy with cars. There will be a new GX and a new full size to finally replace the LX based on the new Tundra, but those probably wont be around until near the end of the decade. Lexus' schedule through '08 is pretty full.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Frustrating to wait so long. The third row is essential for my family's lifestyle and I guess that leaves the GL . . . but even then, the wait for the diesel might be a while. I want this next SUV to be the "right" one.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    The writing was on the wall as soon as Toyota joined the Craftsman truck series. What can Toyota learn about making a better Camry from a carbureted, push-rod V8 powered slot racer with a Camry shell on it? Absolutely nothing, just like the domestics. The key difference here is that while Detroit continues to make Nascar richer while getting absolutely zero ROI, Toyota's very obvious motive is to further drive the point home that they are America's car company.
  • scott1256scott1256 Posts: 531
    I agree: Toyota is not signing up with NASCAR to develop modern technology.

    Toyota wants to capture that 'one-of-the-good-ol'-boys' aura that NASCAR exudes.

    Also, Toyota wants to reach the NASCAR fan base. This an audience of millions of people who are not traditional Toyota/Lexus buyers.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    NASCAR is so successful now. It is EVERYWHERE.

    More brilliance from Toyota to be a part of it.
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    More brilliance from Toyota to be a part of it.

    I wouldn't call being this late to the party "brilliant".
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    I wouldn't call being this late to the party "brilliant".

    What would you call it?

    After all, NASCAR isn't about to end anytime soon. So, it's not really "late" in the game . . .it's ongoing, will be for generations. Just getting involved, particularly at a time when Toyota has now become one of the big ones, makes sense to me.

    I suppose the risk would be that they don't fund it appropriately and that they end up looking pretty sad . . . then it would backfire on them.

    In the racing world, Paul Newman historically did some good things for Nissan, and certainly HONDA has done absolute wonders for themselves recently. So . . . here comes Toyota?
  • anthonypanthonyp Posts: 1,857
    Good Luck to you...Tony
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    If you mean what you said Oac, then this post will probably go unread.

    Anyhow, I have always enjoyed reading your posts, and hope you change your mind and visit here from time to time.
    Don't ever take any of this stuff too seriously.

    Best of luck to you!
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