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High End Luxury Cars

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  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    The 2-mode hybrid that the article refers to is a joint effort of Chrysler, GM, and BMW. Strange bedfellows . . . but the question is which vehicles would see it first. I would be very surprised to see it show up in any Mercedes or BMW models for a while. Unless the system is rock-solid, I would expect to see it first in Chrysler's own badge and GM vehicles.

    If it does turn out to be rock-solid, then yes, it could be a good addition to the Mercedes line-up, possibly on the ML and the new upcoming C-Class first, since the E will aready be offering the diesel.

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
  • volvomaxvolvomax Posts: 5,274
    Car and Driver did a comparo between the Gallardo and an F430 this month.
    F430 won.
    Between the two, I would take the Lambo.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Yeah, I like it. But I'll take an F360 with three pedals.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I dont like the Lambo's cut-and-paste A4 center stack. I had the exact same problem with the V12 Vanquish's Jag XK center stack. If I'm paying that much money for a car, I dont want to see mass market parts in it. Something like a vent here or a door handle there is ok I suppose, but not that kind of blatantly cheap cost cutting. The Maserati Spyder and V8 Vantage don't have Fiat or Ford center stacks, and they cost quite a bit less than the Lambo.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    lexusguy - Amazing . . . because we were just talking about that Quattroporte recently, and earlier today I saw one drive by in the neighborhood, a silver one, and I nearly twisted my neck off as my eyes were GLUED to that gorgeous vehicle. My gosh, so beautiful. It's the first one in the community that I've seen.

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    I spotted this on the internet earlier, so I posted it in the Toyota Prius forum for all those Prius folks, but since I don't post there, I thought I'd also share it with the rest of you.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12529975/

    Maybe it is relevent to the upcoming Lexus LS600hL!!!!!!!!!

    TagMan
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Have not been feeling well.

    After reading a few posts, all I have to add is:

    Merc

    Re: Post #15191. Comparing the Jetta and IS350 stylistically, calling both "Slab-sided", to meet government crash regulations is a reach, at best. I am disappointed. You know better.

    And regarding Honda's swing and a miss with the Accord Hybrid, maybe they had some faulty "Focus Clinics", maybe they thought Civic is for the frugal, and a flagship Accord Hybrid would be appropriate, and cover the extra costs.

    But problems selling cars overseas, and Europes love of the Diesel means very little to me. The US is THE market to rule! We've got the cash, and we LOVE to spend it on cars, so making America your profit center, vs. incredible competition, unlike in Europe, speaks volumes, IMHO.

    DrFill
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    I came across a report yesterday that Mercedes sold almost 5000(4987) copies of the E320 CDI here in States in '05. Company target was only about 2500. So they've doubled their estimates. Now one can only wonder if M-B will cash in on our latest energy crisis and speed up delivery of the Bluetec into the U.S., which the technology is said to be ready for mass-market.

    It seems that DCX is on a roll with diesel's in this country. Jeep sold almost 11k(10,845) CDI-equipped Liberty's last year. And it fully expects to sell all they can make for '06. Now there is even word that we'll get to enjoy what Europe's been enjoying in Jeep's for years: the 3.2 CDI for the Commander and JGC.

    With gas prices as high as they are now, I fully expect DCX to completely rule the diesel passenger car market within 2-3 years in the States, with it's closest competitor being V-Dub. But they don't have nearly as many subsidiaries as DCX does in the states, or the amount of production. Sure, they'll have the usual Bettle and Jetta, but if they can't refine the awesome V-10 TDI before DCX makes their move, then they'll be left way behind.

    Boy does this feel like 1975 all over again. :P
  • british_roverbritish_rover Posts: 8,476
    Land Rover should have a Bi-Turbo diesel in the US within the next two years. It will probably be a V8 although I am not sure. Rover is about to launch a new V8 Diesel in Europe to replace the old BMw TD6 they use right now and we might get a different version of that or maybe something totally different.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    I'm willing to bet that LR will make the LR3 the guinea pig to test whether or not the US is ready for a TD in a Land Rover, and later it will trickle down to the Freelander and RR(both of which have diesel variants in Europe). This will be a welcome addition to the V-6 and V-8 variants in its line up. It will more than likely be more powerful but much more frugal than it's Jag-derived V-8 powertrain. I'm also aware that they are working relentlessly to ensure 50-state compliance with this engine, which is a good thing, as NY and CA are two of the biggest car markets in the country.

    Moreover on the Blutec. I saw a cut-a-way of the internal bits of the engine on MB's website. This engine is absolutely incredible. This company has went to great lengths to make this a very flexible engine, They have ensured that the engine will be as silent as a gas motor, even through the rev range, while being absolutely smoke-free and squeeky-clean, a statement that I have no reason not to believe, judging from the awesome 3.2 CDI.
  • I am not sure why you would be surprised to see it in BMW and mercedes.

    BMW and Benz have a long history of putting liquid technology in their cars. In fact I dont remember the last time they put anything solid in their cars.

    The electric braking system, the terrible i-drive with dozens of lawsuits, the entire electrical systems.

    The air bag problems in my C230.

    I sometimes think the technology is not even liquid, it all hot-gas at times.

    But may be you and I love and forgive bmw and benz because they are sick children on steroids. I can see merc1's head exploding with anger right in front of her monitor. :P
  • I live in new jersey and I was wondering if anyone would like to race their S550 with a LS 460 which I will be able to rent in Fall (from somewhere) on a local/nearby racetrack.

    I am willing to travel up to 300 miles. I am not a pro but can give some serious run for your money.

    I want to bet at least 3000$ for going through all this trouble and do a best of three (or if you have any other ideas).

    Anyone up for it?

    I am also scouting for local MB and Lexus club members who would be interested in this. I am up for 3h, 6h and even 12h format.

    I have also noticed that 7 and S owners talk a lot on forums and in parties, but when a LS owner invites them for track time they are p....g in their pants. I am not sure what do they have to hide? ;)

    May be its the case where, when push comes to shove... :P
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    Courageous of you...might you be better off waiting for the LS600hL?
  • dhamiltondhamilton Posts: 873
    but I saw in person for the first time the new xk convertable with it's top down. It was parked at my local watering hole. I am not usually swayed by looks as far as cars are concerned (unless it's an Aston Martin) but pictures do this car zero justice. It is stunning. The relation to Aston is obvious. Did I hear that the guy who designed those Aston's designed this new Jaguar? Anyway, unbelievable.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    I am not sure why you would be surprised to see it in BMW and mercedes.

    steve, I only said I would be surprised to see it right away.

    But may be you and I love and forgive bmw and benz because they are sick children on steroids. I can see merc1's head exploding with anger right in front of her monitor.

    steve, maybe not, as I must respectfully TOTALLY disassociate myself from your above comment.

    TagMan
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Yes, Jag hired Ian Callum away from Aston to be their new head of design. What will be really interesting is what he does with their sedans.
  • stevekilburnstevekilburn Posts: 359
    Oh it was meant to be in lighter vein, may be I hit the jugular vein. ;)
  • stevekilburnstevekilburn Posts: 359
    Sometimes you guys get so excited upon seeing a jaguar that you forget what is in front of your car and cause accidents.

    Just drive carefully and park your car before you start admiring those lovely taurus looks.
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Posts: 1,150
    Motor Trend has a mini review in the new issue of the S550 4 Matic. As I recall MSRP is 88K or so and it does 0-60 in less than 6 seconds. I know this may sound like I'm approaching senility and my New England relatives are rolling over in their graves, but 88K doesn't seem like a lot of money for what you get. Said better, it doesn't seem like a lot more money beyond the hum drum. A new Tahoe with nice options is 55K, a 5 Series AWD is also in the mid 50's (lets not consider a 7 Series because the last time I checked it still snowed north of the George Washington Bridge), I don't do Lexus so I can't rattle off the models but the big one is not AWD, and no loaded Audi, Saab, Volvo, etc. comes close to the S550's presence, competence, and tradition.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Motor Trend has a mini review in the new issue of the S550 4 Matic. As I recall MSRP is 88K or so and it does 0-60 in less than 6 seconds. . . . 88K doesn't seem like a lot of money for what you get.

    I agree with you . . . but guess what? . . . the new upcoming AWD Lexus LS600hL for just a little more green will get you possibily even MORE car for the $$$$. This is going to be interesting, especially if enough folks like you think that cars in the $ 90 K price arena can be a bargain. I have never done a Lexus either, but I warn you that this new LS600hL may very likely eat up other cars like dog biscuits.

    TagMan
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    BTW, I heard that M-B will bring the direct-injected S350 to the States along with the S450 and S600 next year. With a reported 300-hp(30+ less than the S450), this thing may not be such a slouch after all, much unlike the S350 it replaces. Wonder why they won't bring the CLS350 around the same time? Maybe they feel if a customer wants a V-6, they'll shoot for the E350.

    I'm not sure what they'll do with the S-Class. They're already having a time filling orders because they didn't anticipate so many people would order fully optioned S550s. I doubt we'll see a S350 here, but we might see a S320 CDI or Bluetec. The S450? Who the hell knows....lol! It is like the car never existed. The only thing that is certain is that the S550 4Matic will arrive this fall and that a S63 AMG will appear early next year. The S450, S350, S320 are all up in the air to my knowledge.

    I think out first taste of the new 292hp CGI (Direct-injection) V6 will be the 2008 C350 and then it will spread from there. I still don't know why they brought over that W220 S350 so late in the game if they had no intention of following up with a W221 S350. The S600 is already here.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Come on Lexusguy on a car like the Gallardo Spyder would you or anyone else really care about the center stack? Its not cheap stuff to begin with and its likely way more functional than what would have been there if Lambo weren't a part of Audi. Ferrari's nav system is worse than a afterthought. I don't think what Lambo did is cost cutting, but being smart enough not to spend money on stuff like a "bespoke" center stack on a car in which no one will really care about it anyway. Lambos aren't really bought for their interiors like Bentleys and Astons are anyway. Those Masers may not have a Fiat centerstack, but other Fiat bits are clearly present. Most of those brands/cars use lower-brand switchgear items.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Re: Post #15191. Comparing the Jetta and IS350 stylistically, calling both "Slab-sided", to meet government crash regulations is a reach, at best. I am disappointed. You know better.

    Didn't compare the two to each other, what I said was that they are both slab sided due to new regs. Other than that they don't share much else. Though the Lexus looks awful in IS250 AWD trim all jack up off the ground.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Maybe it is relevent to the upcoming Lexus LS600hL!!!!!!!!!

    Now that you mentioned the LS600hL there is some very interesting reading on the "2007 LS" board I see. The S550 is now being called "obsolete" next to the LS600h.

    That statement is as interesting as it is ridiculous IMO.

    ljflx - Why is it that Mercedes' sales numbers for the S are in question and Lexus' never ending sales gains aren't? After a big Feb, March and likely April do you really think these cars are just sitting on dealers lots now? I doubt they'd keep shipping that many every month if they weren't actually being sold to real people. If the S wasn't selling the news would be all of the place like the actually slow-selling R-Class. Is anyone going to have a case (or reason) in questioning the obviously high numbers the LS460 will post compared to the dying sales of the LS430 this time next year? No of course not.

    M
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,669
    Its not cheap stuff to begin with and its likely way more functional than what would have been there if Lambo weren't a part of Audi. Ferrari's nav system is worse than a afterthought. I don't think what Lambo did is cost cutting,

    Agreed, PLUS…

    Don’t forget the recent article that has Delphi contracted to supply Ferrari with not only the climate control system, but the suspension system.

    I’d take outsourcing parts from Audi over GM (Delphi).

    Though this knowledge doesn’t dissuade me from either; both are excellent automobiles (maybe now even better) with “common” components that have been fully tested and perfected in a large production cycle.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I understand the idea behind using the A4 bits. Obviously the functionality they provide is far more than anything Lambo could do. It would just be nice if they tried a little bit harder to not make it look identical. Even replacing the standard plastic A4 climate knobs with metal ones would be a start.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    It would just be nice if they tried a little bit harder to not make it look identical. Even replacing the standard plastic A4 climate knobs with metal ones would be a start.

    I see what you mean, kinda like Rolls did to hide the obvious BMW idrive gear and what not in the Phantom.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    True. I just don't think it matters as much in cars like a Lambo or Ferrari as much as it would in a Bentley, Aston-Martin or Rolls-Royce. The latter group of cars make their way in part on their interiors and the craftsmanship. Though I do LG's point about dressing these common parts up a little bit for exotic car duty. One of the main problems with the Maybach is that too much Mercedes shows through in the switchgear and overall interior design. It is a maximum Mercedes instead of something truly different like a Maybach.

    M
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    What’s more important, quality of materials, design or both? Obviously both but I place great importance on design, layout. This is an area where I find current AM interiors bereft. They are unsculpted, heavy-handed, shapeless. The centerstacks are big and clumsy, kind of like the boiler in a tenement basement. The instrument cluster and quality of materials can't make up for this IMO.
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