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High End Luxury Cars



  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    I wrote cabin size, that excludes the trunk

    OK, here are the government interior volume data:

    LS - 107 cf

    C55 - 89
    E - 97
    S - 106

    IQ test: Which MB model is the LS closest to?
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    Lexus is the greatest car maker ever right

    I never said that. Perhaps someone else did.

    But I don't think anyone on this board has ever said that Lexus is better than MB at everything...such as producing AMG-type performance vehicles. They don't compete there, as I think is pretty obvious.

    So you've proved that Lexus has failed at something that no one had even tried to claim as a success for them. Good for you.
  • jtbenzjtbenz Posts: 29
    Well not only don't they have anything comparable to the AMG, they really are the slowest lux car line. Admit it. They are not building Lexus for performance enthusiasts. And that is my point all along. Toyota wants to be the practical car maker, not the performance car maker.
    So all of you who have pretentions of your Lexus being a performance car, get over it, they are not, and they are not meant to be.
    I hear good things about the G but never driven one, but I certainly like them more than Lexus or Lincolns and would consider one. The M? hmmm, not crazy about the styling but again I have very little personal experience with them so I don't know. And they really aren't the type of car I like.
    But Nissan, Honda, Mazda and Mits all have better performance creds than Toyota.
  • kgakga Posts: 23
    This is incorrect to compare Lexus LS sales volume with Mercedes S-class. The LS competes with E-class also (at least E500).
    It would be interesting to see sales volume:
    Lexus LS + GS430 = ?
    Mercedes S + E500 = ?
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    Finally, some common ground.

    they have anything comparable to the AMG
    Agreed, but they haven't exactly tried in that department.

    the slowest lux car line. Admit it.
    S430, 0-60: 6.9 sec
    LS430, 0-60: 5.9 sec
    Now I do understand that I could buy an S600 or S65, but at what price?

    They are not building Lexus for performance enthusiasts.
    Agreed. Lexus emphasizes luxury, BMW performance, MB is somewhere in the middle as a company. Since you keep beating up Lexus on performance, why aren't you a BMW fan?
  • jtbenzjtbenz Posts: 29
    Well somebody said they are making the greatest cars ever, or at least implied it and I have nothing against Lexus owners, Some of my best friends own them, and I don't think any less of them for owning one. And I admit they are very nice well built cars, they are just not for me. Not everybody wants the same thing in a car.
    Toyota is very good at what they do but I do find it annoying when Lexus fans look down on everyone else, like we are fools for buying a different make.
    Maybe someday Lexus will build something I will like, but the current lineup. Toyota is a very good company but I think they need to spruce up their line up a little. Their cars are getting a little too conventional. Just my opinion, but it doesn't seem that they have any competitors in the excitement category like the Mustangs, AMG's, the Mit Evo, Subaru WRX, Nissan Skyline, BMW M's, caddy's XLR etc. Where is Toyota's entry?
  • kgakga Posts: 23
    You can buy E500.
    0 - 60 mph : 5+ sec.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,665
    "Toyota wants to be the practical car maker, not the performance car maker."

    I think many posts ago I said that is their business plan. For Lexus replace practical with luxury and you'd have that one right to. So what's the big deal. They are a both a practical and luxury car company that makes excellent cars. MB makes better performance sedans than Lexus, but you seem to always have to go to the AMG to prove your point. Hmmmm. You do realize - I hope - that AMG represents 1.5% of global MB sales with an annual volume of 15,000 cars sold (again that is worldwide). BMW makes better performance sedans than MB. Does that make BMW a better car?? In your mind I guess so. If not than your points about MB performance don't hold water.

    Now - just watch how MB is about to become a practical luxury car maker again under their new CEO because this whole performance/youth/hi-tech/slick car strategy has failed them badly. Or do you think they are going to stay the course and not change anything?

    Your posts about C-class cabin size are hillarious though. I mean if you are going to pick something to make a point at least pick something that is arguable instead of something that is so obviously wrong. What are you going to say next that a beetle is more roomy than an LS430?
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    Well, speaking for myself, I'll say, to each his own as far as a personal buying choice. I've considered MB myself, and may be an owner someday. But honestly, if I were to buy a German car now, it wouldn't be an MB, because of the reliability issues.
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    According to the MB website, the E500 goes 0-60 in 5.9 sec.

    That's a tie with the LS430.
  • jtbenzjtbenz Posts: 29
    Well I agree with you on almost everything. Wow, except for the BMW part. I like BMW's and wouldn't mind getting one, but there are a few things I don't like about them, especially the styling. Mercedes seem snazzier and seem to stand out more than the BMW's, but it is just my opinion.
    (And I am getting sick of seeing them, every one seems to have one, friends family neighbors, they are everywhere! And they all have the same look.)
    And I like the performance of my Benz and the interior seems a bit nicer than the BMW.
    And the only reason why I mention Lexus' performance is because that has been my point all along, but people jumped all over me when I mentioned it. It seemed like people were denying it I never denied that Lexus makes fine reliable cars. And I am not surprised why they are so popular.
    And I am not surprised by the 60 times, (I looked them up when people jumped all over the S) again I never really looked or studied the LS and for the S I would look at them at the car dealer when I was there or read about them once in a while but never studied them or the competition seriously because I haven't considered buying one. I do have an uncle who has one but never drove it myself and none of my friends own an S. I do admire the S for what it is,and it is Mercedes flagship car. I have never really paid too much attention to the LS, It has never been my cup of tea, they have never excited me, but I do have a new found respect for the LS now, but both cars are not my kind of cars and I don't want to own either. But both are fine autos and I can see why people who own them are proud of them.
  • kgakga Posts: 23
    Lexus is well known for overestimating its vehicles. I have looked at motortrend test data, and it shows:
    E500: 5.8 sec;
    LS: 6.4 sec;
    S430: 6.8 sec.

    But it’s not the point. My point is that Lexus LS competes with Mercedes S & E500. LS sales volume compared with S-class only does not really mean anything.
  • stroudmanstroudman Posts: 192
    Thanks for the welcomes-back, folks. I can only sit back and watch the continuous volley, but not indulge it again. I will say this however-

    -The quality continues to improve for mercedes-benz

    -Schremp and Cordes are GONE, and can take their megalomania with them. Zieche should only be a huge catalist to the rise back up. So I'm optimistic...
  • jtbenzjtbenz Posts: 29
    Hmmm interesting stats. But hey thanks for the lively debate, I hate to leave the field with the battle still raging but it's Friday night and time to go out and have some fun. Have a nice weekend.
  • stroudmanstroudman Posts: 192
    I have had to acquire a taste for the new S, but I can say I have gone from thinking it was o.k. to liking it pretty well. I've seen better photos more recently, and I guess seeing it in the flesh will determine my real opinion. Late jan early feb is what I'm hearing for availablity, plus the saks 5th ave., or whatever limited edition cars they're making only 40 or so of, that will be sold in october, if I remember correctly. The 450 is either mid model intro for '07, or maybe '08. I'm excited about the car, and we're starting to take orders for them, which is good to see. I'm not too proud to admit that I'm a little nervous about all the new tech going into this car...I hope it's not a repeat of the 220.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,665
    You can keep making that argument but I think we all know better. The E is really the size of the ES and GS. I had a hard time fitting 5 comfortably in an E-class. It feels cramped and small to me and so does the GS. it's the nature of those cars and its why the LS competes at the S level and not the E level. Just look at the discussion topic for further confirnation.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    This is incorrect to compare Lexus LS sales volume with Mercedes S-class. The LS competes with E-class also (at least E500).

    Laughable stretch....Get real buddy. We are talking High End Luxury Marques here not E class, unless MB fans think an E qualifies in the same class as an S !
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    OK, I'll grant that it's better to use independent results, and that the LS slots in between the E500 and S430 in 0-60 times.

    I also agree that some people will cross shop the LS against the E. And when you look at cars, MB outsells Lexus...for now. But if you look back a few dozen posts, you'll see that Lexus is gaining market share in cars vs MB, having grown 45% to MB's 20% since 1999.
  • kgakga Posts: 23
    Lexus LS “key competitors”: MB E-Class, S-Class (source: Lexus web site). I think guys at Lexus know better their competitors, or you think they are incompetent? If someone does not fit (nothing personal) into smallish E500, it does not prove that E500 and LS don’t compete.
    Nevertheless, point regarding this board title is well taken.

    P.S. recently my friend asked my opinion regarding new car purchase. We took a look at: Audi A6, BMW 545, MB E500, Lexus LS (basically the same price range). The winner is E500 (though it was not my choice), because friend of mine values luxury feel more than anything else. But I guess it’s irrelevant now. I’m officially off.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    E500: 5.8 sec;
    LS: 6.4 sec;
    S430: 6.8 sec.

    Wow, a 5L V8 motor vs a 4.3L V8 motor with different time to 60mph .... and the point was ????? Simply ridiculous !!! Methinks this line of debate is well worn and time to move on.....
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