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High End Luxury Cars

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  • Somebody's gonna get you for blastin BMW, shame on you
  • IMO Lexus wins for modern car building and postmodern car design both. Heidigger said
    "the being of being is being." In the case
    of Lexus quality is the quality of quality.
  • Well..

    I work at a dealer than handles pre-owned highline/exotic cars.

    Right now I am driving a 92 500SL with almost 93K on the clock.

    It feels like I am driving a new one.

    I recently drove a 100K mile SC400.. And I have to agree with Jaw7, as much as I love my Jaguar that I own.. nothing "feels" like a Mercedes.

    Bill
  • Bill,

    Can you explain that last comment? (I drove a SC400, and even though I like my Jag, nothing feels like a Mercedes.)
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    The sense of substance and quality, the straight line stability, the vault-like construction. The SL more than any other current Mercedes vividly displays these qualities. The SL is just a beefy, thick, hefty all-encompassing quality car. Sadly, Mercedes doesn't have a sedan that equals it anymore.

    M
  • scongroscongro Posts: 80
    One thing about the SL500/600. How can you say a car that costs 82,000(or 128,000) that comes with a plastic rear window is "The sense of substance and quality, the straight line stability, the vault-like construction."
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    True, but when this car was designed it was nearly impossible to incorporate a real glass window with the complex fully-automatic soft top. That said, it took seven years for anyone to come up with a truly competitive car, that car being the Jaguar XK8. A plastic window has nothing to do with the driving feel of the SL, nor does it have to do with the vault feel of its structure. The car's interior is one of the most expensively detailed interiors around.

    M
  • enigmaoneenigmaone Posts: 128
    The current SL is very vaultlike but not really anymore by todays standards considering that the Corvette convertible is lighter and has structural frequency of 25.0MHZ vs. the approx. 20MHZ rating of the SL roadsters.

    The plastic rear window has nothing to do with the driving feel of the SL. It is a very nice driving car, except for somewhat numb steering. But for a 4000+lb. roadster it handles very well and has great brakes and strong acceleration.

    The MB SL500s interior, though, is not expensively detailed. Except for the leather being higher grade, the interior looks basically like a scaled down version of the old S-class interior. Overall the material of the interior and design is very similar to that of even a E-class MB(last gen.). The Audi TT has a expensively detailed interior as does the Jaguar XK8.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    You're right the SL600 is the really fancy one. Other cars may have passed the SL in rigidity, but it took over 5 years for them to do it. When introduced there was not a more solid convertible on the market. It was the standard by which convertible body structures were measured. I'd hope that after 10 years someone would be able to catch up to/surpass the SL's body structure. On the interior, I wasn't speaking about its looks per say, its the quality of the materials that are top-notch.

    M
  • hello25hello25 Posts: 30
    I'm fortunate to have driven the SL (with eight).
    My impression was that it was much higher quality than an E (which it should be). The solidity, the power, and if I can say, the style of it make me unhappy that such a car as this will not be made much longer. You're going to hate me for saying this but I saw an S Class today and it's tiny!
    It's probably very large but in person to me it seems small and insubstantial compared to the previous generation.
  • enigmaoneenigmaone Posts: 128
    The S-class tiny? The current S-class does not have as much of a prescence on the road as the previous generation S-class, but by no means is it tiny. Of course its going to look a little smaller, considering the weight loss program that the S-class went thru and the slight size shrinkage.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    For once I can fully understand what Hello25 is saying. The new S is not the over-the-top-hulk of the old car, and I really miss that. I guess the change was for the best. I agonize over this too much to not have owned the previous generation. However the new S only looks small, trust me it's still a big car. One of the main complaints (from non-owners I might add) about the previous S was that it just looked too big. I personally loved the way that car traveled down the road, you knew what it was and you knew it was a giga-buck car. The new car was styled to fit in visually and not portray it's mass so much, kind of like the Audi A8, which also a big car, but upon first glance it doesn't look it. Hello25 you're also on point about the SL being missed. The current SL has been may absolute favorite car for 10 years now. I can't bare the thought of it being replaced. The SL is the last of the cost-no-object cars from Mercedes-Benz.

    M
  • nunyanunya Posts: 4
    All of these are great cars but my question is on the ride, i.e. comfort. I've been driving the same 25 mile (each way at 60mph, not many turns) trip to work for 20 years on country roads; rough rodes, some breakups, and noisy pavement. I've sold my German, Italian, and Japanese sport cars and would rather be beemed there if it was possible. I'm leaning to a 96-97 LS400 as it seems the most comfortable. I'll pass on the driving experience.
    As a further note I'd prefer a telescoping steering wheel since my legs must be longer (arms shorter?) than the prototype driver.
    Any kind suggestions?
  • may have reached or
    even surpassed the old
    SL(92) model was stated
    structure stiffness,
    you won't find a 92
    corvette that would be
    safer or be in as good
    a shape as the SL. If I
    had a choice of which
    to be in during a wreck
    or own, or sale after
    owning it would be the
    SL. I believe when the
    Aurora came out, they
    said it was as stiff as
    an E class, I don't
    recall which year they
    meant, but they also
    said the materials
    attached to didn't.
  • enigmaoneenigmaone Posts: 128
    good point, quattro-pearl,

    Originally, when the Aurora came out in the early 90s it met the structural standard set forth by the 1986-1995 Mercedes-Benz E-class, at 25MHZ.

    I remember also, one or two magazines pointed out that even though on paper the Aurora might be as solid, in person the car did not drive as solid as a E-class nor did the Aurora feel like it was carved out of one piece of metal like the E-class felt.

    I too would much rather be in a accident in a SL over a Corvette.
  • I live in Phoenix, with a summer climate similar to living on the face of the sun. A/C performance is critical. I have been driving Chevy Tahoes for the past 5 years and the A/C in them is ice cold and able to quickly cool a very large cubic volume. My friend drove a 1983 BMW 5 series and the A/C was horrible.

    Anyone on this board drive a MW 7 series or a new Merc S class in Arizona, Texas, or Florida?

    Joe
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Don't let the GM people hear that. There are some here that will tell you that the Aurora was the most solid car on the market and it simply wasn't true. It may have had a stiff structure, but the other accessories that GM hung from the chassis were just typical GM junk. They designed a good structure and went home. I drove the Aurora, S320, LS400, Legend, and J30 extensively at an event put on by OLDS in 1995 called Dream Dream. It was just that until it was time to drive the Aurora.
    Even the Olds reps were embarrassed when people didn't want to "turn-in" the S320 and LS400 at the end of the drive, while the 3 Auroras on hand sat quiet and locked...long forgotten.


    M
  • rpowell3rpowell3 Posts: 1
    Have never owned a MB and have opportunity to purchase 1999 S320 with 30K mi & fully loaded for $46K - Now drive Expedition and love the room. Does anyone have any opinions about the S320?
  • bobby_cbobby_c Posts: 1
    I'm new to this forum so please forgive me if these questions had been asked before.

    Can anyone comment on what price they paid for a BMW7?

    My local dealer in Denver is offering a no haggle price of $2k off the 7s.

    I checked carorder.com and their price is about $3.5k off for the options I want on a 740iA that include the sport package, rear sun shade, and rear side airbag. MSRP is $68560. Carorder has it for $64890. Local dealer has same car less the rear shade and rear side airbag for $65930 with MSRP of $67970.

    I checked the BMWUSA site and read about the special prices they had for european delivery. For the 740i, the price is about $4300 off MSRP. At this price, it would be the best price I've seen, better than even carorder.com! Has anyone done this? Is it worth the trip if you hadn't plan to travel to Germany otherwise? What are the final charges for shipping and handling?

    Final question: what is the best color for a 740i with the sport package? I know color is a personal choice but I would like to know why you like the color that you choose. I was thinking of choosing a bright firey red. "Imola Red" would be my first choice. This color is only available on the 740i with sport package. I was concern however that the red color will emphasize too much on sport and not enough on the luxury side of the 740i. Would a white, silver, or black be a better color choice for a luxury sport car?

    Thanks for any input.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I see quite a few 7s with the sport package around here and the best color combo is that dark blue over oyster. Orient Blue to be exact. Stunning but still shows luxury car character.

    M
  • I have read and responded to this site since its inception and have found an abundance of useful information that has helped me with decisions on some very pricey automotive investments. However, the recent posting sound more like childish banter than people exchanging useful information. Please get back to the discussion of High End Luxury SEDANS and off of the Aurora, Corvette and SL600. They don't belong in this discussion.
  • hello25hello25 Posts: 30
    I didn't know there were two moderators of this topic. I promise not to talk about the Aurora or the Corvette or the SL600 or SLK or the A or the C or the E or the ML or the ES or the IS or the GS or the SC or the RX...
  • In response to the question in 151, I did the German delivery of a 540i in 1998. It is a very nice program, and saves a bit of money. Down side is you must pay cash 1 month prior to delivery, travel to Germany (I go anyway for business) and then wait 5-8 weeks for the car to reach the US. Upside is you have the car to tour Europe, a price better than any I found here and you pick precisely the options, color, etc. I highly recommend the program. BMW gives you temproty plates and insurance for one month which can be extended if you wish. They detail the car for you when it is shipped to the USA. There is no charge for the shipment. My wife absolutely loved it as she joined me for a week in Bavaria, Austria, Switzerland, etc.
  • mmcbride1mmcbride1 Posts: 861
    What a nut job! I give that post 2 hours before it is deleted. Maybe less...
  • mmcbride1mmcbride1 Posts: 861
    It was less.
  • Will be sold along side of the A8, like BMW sold the 740i and 740iL What other features will the A8L other than room?
  • Want to know what tops your "blessed" Mercedes S600 which you seem to think G-d created on the seventh day before he rested? Try a Bentley Continental T Mulliner. *Grins*

    If I had a few hundred thousand dollars to throw around, I'd prefer a more individually tailored and styled Bentley or Rolls-Royce over a bland, mass-produced and common-as-apples "Kraut Wagon" like a Mercedes-Benz. And yes, I'm well aware of the fact that Bayerische Motoren Werke and Volkswagen purchased RR & Bentley from Vickers. IMHO, Crewe still builds cars that will always be leaps and bounds above anything the three-pointed star can churn out in terms of sheer majesty, elegance, and sophistication.

    Moderator: Before you delete this post for the "Kraut" remark, take into account the fact that I'm of Austrian descent. Thanks. ;o)
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    A Bentley does top a Benz in image and "majesty" as you call it. However an S600 is at least 15 years ahead in technology over any 2-door Bentley made today, including their specialized Mulliner editions. Mulliner is to Bentley, like AMG is to Mercedes. I like Bentley's too, very much. However in technical sophistication they are decades behind. A 300K car that doesn't even have Xenon headlights, or side airbags! Of course after you drive a Bentley or even sit in one you wouldn't care, but technically they were outdated 15 years ago. If I had a couple hundred grand I would have a Bentley in addition to a few "Kraut Wagens" too. Don't look now but like you said, those "Kraut" companies own the lady, her dress, and that flying "B". Image they are tops, but "sophistication" is mastered by Mercedes-Benz and the like.


    M
  • Out of respect for the topic of this forum and for its contributors, this will be my last post here.

    I understand and respect the fact that we both have differing opinions, Merc. I don't expect to "convert" you, just as you will never "convert" me. *Smirks* I'm sure we each have rational reasons for thinking the way we do.

    I sincerely think that Rolls-Royce and Bentley top Mercedes-Benz by a substantial margin. The difference is in the craftsmanship, the quality of the materials, and the build quality. Rolls-Royces and Bentleys are quite literally designer items. You don't go to a dealership and just buy one like you do in the case of a Mercedes-Benz; you commission them.

    The "technological" argument is rather moot, IMHO. Arguing that Crewe cars are "decades behind" in technological sophistication is like arguing about the obsolescence of the front-engine, rear wheel drive layout or the internal combustion engine (two things which every Mercedes-Benz has). Just because something may be "outdated" in accordance with modern standards does not necessarily mean it's inferior. Quite the contrary, the "obsolete technology" in Crewe cars is time-proven and just as good if not better than the "superior technology" in a Mercedes-Benz.

    You also seem to forget that the recent investments by Bayerische Motoren Werke and Volkswagen have contributed greatly to the "modernization" of Rolls-Royce and Bentley motorcars. I'm sorry, Merc, but I'm afraid we'll have to differ on this. In my honest opinion, I think the Mercedes-Benz "superior technology" you speak of consists of nothing more than gimmicks and "toys" (like the chromed wands which extend from the rear of the car) to make an affluent buyer feel "special." They are trivial "extras" which experienced drivers will never need or have a use for in their lifetime. Rolls-Royces and Bentleys have individuality, and endear to their owners in ways German cars couldn't match on their best day.

    Also, making a car more "idiot proof" only increases the risks of expensive repairs when that "superior technology" fails, and in a way fosters irresponsible driving. Simply put, if we absolutely need technical innovations like Parktronic and that cruise control that slows the car down when you approach another car too quickly, we really shouldn't be on the road.

    So if I had $300,000 lying around, I'd go with a more individual Rolls-Royce Corniche convertible over a bland and ho-hum (in my opinion) SL600, or a Park Ward over an S600. To me, Mercedes-Benzes, BMWs, and Lexii are as common as apples and, as the Edmund's staff puts it, clutter the highways like salmon travelling upstream to spawn.

    Anyhow, I think I've said enough. Once again, this will be my last post, and let's not allow our differences in opinion make us mortal enemies. ;o)
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    You must have misunderstood my last post. I agree with you totally about Bentley/Rolls craftsmanship and status. They are the top status symbol in luxury cars, if not cars period. However like I said before, I can't see why a 300K should be "forgiven" for not having the same features as a Jetta or Corolla. Furthermore most people don't have 300K "lying around" anyway, nor do I. I do have about 40-45K to spend on my next car though, so a "ho-hum" Mercedes or BMW will have to do. I deal in reality, not what if's. That said, you're correct, a Bentley is a stunning car. There is not other car more lavishly built than a Rolls or Bentley.

    You also said that some of Mercedes' technical innovations are just "gimmicks". Hmmm, an electronic stability program for a rear-drive hi-performance car is indeed a revelation in bad conditions, something that I don't recall any Rolls and Bentley models having. Side airbags and Xenon lights gimmicks, yeah right. Xenon lights have changed many peoples perspective of night driving, because they are now comfortable doing so because of the level of vision these type of lights provide. Parktronic, something that Bentley does have, so if it's a so-called "gimmick" then Bentley is guilty too. Any big car owner will tell you that any parking assistance system is helpful, but not a must-have. That is the point of a luxury car...convenience. About VW and BMW sharing Rolls and Bentley. If those British brands were so good, they would not have needed a savior from.....Germany. Their cars would be 25 years behind without their help. My point is that while Bentley and Rolls are fabulous cars, they aren't the all around best. The best in my opinion are from Germany, ho hum and all.
    However, I were filthy rich I would have several Bentleys too. I like them both, but Mercedes is just my #1. Lastly, don't group Mercedes and BMW with even more pedestrian brands like Lexus.

    M
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