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High End Luxury Cars



  • The 2001 LS430s bhp output remains at 290 bhp but torque jumps to 320 lb-ft, up from 300lb-ft. Plus more torque comes lower down in the RPM range, which will improve performance noticeably.

    Wheelbase on 2001 LS430 is up over 2" as opposed to 2000 LS400. Height is increased 2.4". And in the process, 2001 LS430 has more overall interior room and a larger trunk than 2000 S-class.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Mercedes made the name changes so that their lineup would be easier to understand. Mercedes cars have had engine displacement bading for over a hundred years. It was getting out of hand having, CE, TE, TD, SE, SEL, E, SDL, SD, and others. All they did was take the letter from each class and place it first, followed by the engine size. It most definitely was not done because of some Japanese car. Acura following this has been a disaster, nobody knows or remembers what a RL or TL is unless they have one. They spent all that time grooming the "Legend" only to drop the name, very dumb.

  • flint350flint350 Posts: 250
    My Lexus dealer called me this weekend to solicit a $1000 deposit to secure my place in line to buy a new LS430 from him. While we were talking, he re-iterated that the Lexus reps are telling him that the engine will be over 300hp and not the advertised 290. Not that it's all that important as long as the performance is there, just a point of interest.
    Enigma - when I go down to talk with the dealer about the deposit, I would want more than just a place in line. That implies whatever comes in (color, equip) is what you may have to settle for. I am not inclined to do that. I want a fully loaded car with a reasonable color choice. If I am going to spend the big bucks and live with it for quite a while, I want choice. So, is the deposit a waste of time? Or, if I just wait to order what I want, what are the chances of getting shut out for a LONG time. I can order the MB S430 from the factory exactly as I want it and get it in 3 mos. Will Lexus be about the same or a little longer, or is the early demand probably going to eat up all early allotments? Interested in your opinion on this. Thanks
  • flint,

    Usually the dealer will ask you for color choice and equipment choice when that data becomes available to the dealer itself. Currently, no Lexus dealer knows the exact 10 colors that will be offered or the exact standard and options that will be available. And the most important thing, they don't know the price yet, of the standard car or prices for options.

    This is what our dealer did with cars before they came out- I'll take for example the RX300 before it came out-
    1) Even before Color choice, equipment choice is known, the dealer takes deposits from customers so that they can get one of the earlier RX300s. Of course, with a popular product, the later you put a deposit, the later you get the car.
    2) When color choices, combinations, standard features and options are known(usually about a month before the cars hit showrooms), dealer ask each individual customer what options they want, what they don't want, what they can live without, what options they can't live without, and their top 2 to 3 color choices that they would like.
    3) Dealer puts in order preferences for each customer every few weeks. Order preferences are basically where the dealer sits down at the computer and punches in what the dealership needs in colors, equipment and options to fill customer orders. And what Lexus NA does is try to get each dealer the proper cars they need(with proper colors, equipment, etc.) to sell to customers or to fill pre-existing orders.

    And typically the cars do basically appear in the order that you were on the waiting list. Usually the only times that things go wrong:

    1) is if the color you wanted, nobody else wants, and therefore they don't produce many of them.

    2) the equipment levels you want is something that Lexus does not build alot of. Example: You want a car with Leather but no moonroof. If someone wanted a car like that, they are going to be waiting a long time for delivery!

    3) Production problems have cut production. Of course, it rarely happens these days!

    4) the dealer you put a deposit/order with is run by a bunch of morons. And they don't bother placing order preferences, etc. with Lexus or they never bothered to ask customer for color, equipment preferences.

    5) And of course, if could be any combination of the above 4 reasons.

    The Deposit is not a waste of time. As it "should" guarantee that you get the car sooner rather than later. For example, if you put a deposit and you are #10 on the list of customers who are waiting for 2001 LS430s, you should be about the 10th one to get the car. I have seen some customers get cars earlier rather than later. And i have also seen the opposite happen. Again, what happens depends mainly on color availability and equipment availability.

    Even if you order a LS430 once colors, equipment, options, and prices are set in or around August. You should be able to get a LS430 built the way you want it, in about 3 months. Usually even with high demand, 3 months is the longest it would take for your car to arrive from Japan from the time you ordered it.

    I would go through and pick your dealers and salespersons brain apart with reference to ordering and what the deposit means as far as your place in line.
  • flint350flint350 Posts: 250
    Enigma, thanks a lot. That really helped and I will visit my dealer soon to get the answers you suggest.
  • I purchased a 750il (1997) to replace a 1998 Mercury Grand Marquis LS. I miss the simplicity of the controls on the Mercury and its automatic headlights and digital door locks.

    I am afraid the BMW will spoil me and I won't want any other car. I just wish the radio and the a/c were easier to operate. I am afraid to try the phone. :)
  • I think(hence: my opinion) Acura dropped "Legend" because they wanted a true luxury car to compete with BMW, Lexus, MB. People would think of the legend as an "almost luxury car". Granted, if they really wanted to compete, it would have been really nice and generous of them to add at least 2 more cylinders; among other things.
    Also-any opinions on the BMW 7-Series protection trim. Is a BMW armored car really necessary. If anyone knows the sales numbers for this, that would be great.
  • Enigma,
    Do you have any idea on the price range of the '01 coupe(possibly called SC 430).
  • 2001 SC430 hardtop convertible will be over $60K. But not more than in the mid to high $60s.

    Acura dropped the "Legend" name becase the Acura name wasn't recognized and the Legend name was recognized by everyone. Typically when you would ask a Acura Legend owner what car they owned, they would tell you Legend. When you ask a mecedes E430 or a BMW 740i, or a Lexus LS400 owner you get the answer, typically, of Mercedes, BMW, or Lexus. In the end because of the name association problem, the Legend was never truly considered a luxury car buy buyers and the general public. And actually the 1st and 2nd generation Legends were really not luxury cars, they were closer to sport-luxury sedans then to actual luxury sedans like the LS400.
  • Lexus steered its way clear around the ES250.
    I used to drive a Legend. It was nice size,
    well made, powerful enough. It was no LS400
    in real life as on paper. I doubt the RL
    has an essentially different character...
  • 2000 MB S-Class is shown on the left,
    2001 Shameless and Relentless Pursuit of MB Copycat is shown on the right:
    image image


  • I'm new to this thread and I don't really care one way or the other, but the front of the new Lexus looks exactly like the front of the MB S class. Same style headlights, same grill, same hood...joe
  • Where does one see a resemblance in the headlights or grille? Do you notice that the LS430 has a more trapezoidal shape to the headlights, whereas, the S-class does not? If you'll notice the S-class has its lights curved at the top to give the slight effect of 4-separate headlights.

    Same grille? Theirs about a million cars that have the same basic outer grille shape on this planet. Where are the other similarities? The MB has chrome slats going horizontally through the grille, does the Lexus? Does the Lexus have a hood emblem?

    It's more like the front end of a LS430 looks almost nothing like a 2000 S-class front end.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    The front ends are remarkably similar as in the lights, but the rear of the new LS430 is most resembles the previous S-Class in shape and size. However in fairness in the metal the new LS resembles a Mercedes overall, but it's hard to tell exactly what they took...when you actually see it.

  • It never seems to end. There will always be those who condemn Lexus for copying MBZ. My response is, so what? If you don't like the Lexus, don't buy the car.

    Is there a resemblance b/t the S class and the new LS 430? Sure there is. Is that going to dissuade me from possibly purchasing the LS 430 next year? That would be ridiculous. As a present MBZ and Lexus owner, I look forward to the new Lexus offering. And I am sure that MBZ will up the ante soon after.

    On a side note, one thing that MBZ could stand to copy from Lexus is their stellar reliablity!
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    That would be about all, if that.

  • A bit of sad news.

    One of Car and Drivers technical editors, Don Schroeder, died last friday in a high speed car crash while testing a high performance modified Mercedes-Benz in Texas.
  • newwestdnewwestd Posts: 157
    I see our HTML writing Lexus-basher is back! I'd sure like to know what Lexus did to her in the past to inspire such vengence!

    There may or may not be some slight similarities between cars - but who cares? There are a lot of other cars on the road that are a lot more similar looking than Lexus and MB.
  • I stopped the 2000 MB S-class to show you
    Wheeeel! Lucky Seven!

    When the 2000 MB S-class is standing still to show the 7-spoke wheels, Lesux' designers must have felt very lucky because grade school taught them how to count to exactly seven, not one over nor one under.
    Please, are you thinking that counting spokes is easy?
    Think again, spoke counting requires special skills, it took Lexus' designers 10 years to master the skills: If they don't hold the first spoke with one hand for reference, the count can be messed up (their bosses won't be happy), let alone the 2000 MB won't stand still too long.
    Did you recall that the older MB S-class have had 8-hole wheels and Lesux' designers miscounted and copied as 9-hole wheels on their Lexus LS400?

  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    What other cars resemble each other so blatantly than Mercedes and Lexus? The only other such relationship is Buick and Jaguar.

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