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High End Luxury Cars

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Comments

  • lovemyclklovemyclk Posts: 351
    Would sure hope the new Lexus design concept, as applied to the LS, will allow for better interior space utilization. You'd need to be built like a Hobbit to sit in the rear seating of the GS/IS(moreso). My guess is that this new LS will be more appealing "in the metal" and wonder if the new interior takes cues from the GS.

    The last area for discussion here will center on the driving dynamics of this new car... over-nannied like the GS? Would also guess this car will impact MB/Audi/Jag more than BMW if the driving experience tilts heavily toward insulated luxury. Have heard, however, that the new S-Class is more in the realm of the 750i, so maybe MB will play up drivability with their new V8's.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Lexus did not provide a VDIM disable switch on the IS350, so there's very little reason to think that there will be one in the LS.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Would also guess this car will impact MB/Audi/Jag more than BMW if the driving experience tilts heavily toward insulated luxury.

    In this segment I cant think of any vehicle that does not tilt towards insulated luxury, including the BMW 7 series. If you want performance buy the BMW M5 instead of the 7 series!! If you want a better driving experience than a BMW M5 then buy a Audi RS4!

    So what is my point? Size and weight in my opinion is a drivability-killer. Once you buy cars like the Lexus LS or the MB S , LUXURY and not drivability becomes the priority!
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Agree. Thats why the Elise is the ultimate drivers car. It has an engine, wheels, and seats. Anything beyond that would be considered a "frill".
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I like it - but I too see 7 all over the car, past the A pillar......
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Once you buy cars like the Lexus LS or the MB S , LUXURY and not drivability becomes the priority!

    This is true, but a car doesn't have to be lifeless to drive like the LS430 in order to provide luxury. The S-Class rides just as well, and handles better, but isn't as quiet. Hardly a penalty box.

    M
  • ctsangctsang Posts: 237
    I dare you or anyone to find any difference in handling in everyday drving between LS and S. None of the people who buy them goes for their handling. Don't you know that the owners of those cars in HK ride in the back?
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    The S-Class rides just as well, and handles better, but isn't as quiet. Hardly a penalty box.

    Accoring to world of ctsang, the MB chauffeurs are the lucky ones ;)
  • garyh1garyh1 Posts: 386
    I dare you or anyone to find any difference in handling in everyday driving between LS and S.

    While I certainly don't agree with everything that is being said here, I have to agree that the difference in handling between a 7, an S, and an LS under "normal everyday" driving conditions is really not great. As someone else said, if you are looking for a true "driver's" car, you really need to go AT LEAST one step down in size to an E or a 5 (and even then a modified version). All the sedans in this class - including the 7 - are too big, heavy and high off the ground to throw around curves, etc.

    In fact, what is missing from this discussion is that the choice of tires put on any of these cars will have a bigger effect on extreme driving abilities than the choice of cars itself. Believe it or not, I can throw my LS with 18" low profile high performance tires around corners faster than I can my E320 with 16" regular Michelins! That's the "real" world. BTW, the trade off for putting the high performance tires on the LS is more road noise, rougher ride, even a bit more vibration through the steering wheel than with the "regular" tires. Many LS owners wouldn't want to make that trade off; for me (with most of my driving in town), I like being able to corner, change lanes, even accelerate faster rather than cruise a bit smoother and quieter. If most of my driving was at 70 mph on the highway, I'd probably go for the "regular" tires.

    Experience has taught me that all of life is trade offs, and all generalizations are wrong.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Well first of all in the U.S. most S-Class owners drive themselves so it really is irrelevant to bring up what goes on elsewhere. Secondly you either feel/get the difference or not. No one said that buyers of the S-Class go for handling or that difference was like night and day. What I stated was that the handling difference is there. Its the same thing when a LS430 buyers raves about how quiet the LS430 is. It is true, I've experienced myself, but it doesn't make other cars in the classy noisy, only noisy relative to the LS. The LS430 I drove just a few weeks ago at the Taste of Lexus was indeed the quietest car I ever remember driving, and it also keeled over and floated like a barge on the handling test they had set up. Mercedes had a similar event at the same track (Arlington, where all carmakers stage such events in the Chicagoland N/W Suburbs) last year around the same time and the S500 I drove didn't have nearly the same soggy steering and roll-n-dive like the LS430 did. So there I'm one person who has experienced the difference. If you don't see "feel" being mentioned as to why some people (not all) buy German cars than you haven't been paying attention to the boards.

    M
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    Well the IS would be a nice car for a youngster and it sounds like your son has a lock on it, unlike Oac who if I recall correctly has a couple of much younger kids who need to ride in the back seat. The IS car is no family car. That back seat is the smallest in a class that is back-seat compromised to begin with. The only way he is going to get it is if he could swing it as his personal second or third car. Nah, I see either a GS or LS in his future in addition to the realistic workhorse utility vehicle. Me thinks the toy car will have to wait ‘til the kids have left the nest or have their own cars. OK Oac… you’re on..

    Designman... I've been so much away from here its been ages... looks like it ! Reading through, I came across this post from you.

    Yes, I have a couple of young uns' - 11 & 13 to be exact. In a couple of years I fully expect that my car needs would change. I already have a deal with my wife. She gets an LX470 this year, and I get an LS460 next year... Originally, I had wanted the IS350, but seeing that I gotta satisfy the wife with the LX, and the new LS is just so stunning, I gotta pass on the IS. But that 5.3s 0-60 on the IS350 is sure tempting....
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    The Audi S8 that debuts at Tokyo will be powered by a V10 derived from the Lamborghini Gallardo.

    My driveability argument that smaller is better still holds. BUT to say that all big lux mobiles have indistinguishable driveablity goes a bit too far!

    If a driver cannot tell the difference between the upcoming Audi S8 and and the Lexus LS, then that driver must suffer some form of sensory deprivation.

    Despite the Audi S8's upcoming engine, I must humbly say that I would be a far happier driving its smaller sibling: The RS4.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    It is unfortunate that the Lexus IS 350 alienates two important types of customers:

    1) The enthusiast who hates the coercive nannies on the IS and its lack of a manual transmission. BMW3 and Infinti G35 enthusiasts are not going to storm the doors of a Lexus dealership for this kind of car

    2) The comfortable luxury seeker who finds the lack of rear seating space as a turn-off!. These type of buyers will remain devoted to the more spacious Lexus ES/LS vehicles.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    Permit me to disagree with you on both points:

    1) The enthusiast who hates the coercive nannies on the IS and its lack of a manual transmission...

    There is a 6MT in the IS250, there is no electronic nanny either.

    2) The comfortable luxury seeker who finds the lack of rear seating space as a turn-off!.

    This is a compact sport-lux class. The key word being compact ! If you need to carry 4 people in a sedan, get a mid-sized t full-size car. A compact car, by definition should be small and nimble. That is what the IS sedans are.

    If I own an IS350, it will be for me and the missus mostly, blasting down the freeway. When I need to transport the kids, either the full-size LS or the full-size SUV will do plenty well. But an IS350 will just be my fun/toy car...
  • bdr127bdr127 Posts: 950
    This is a compact sport-lux class. The key word being compact ! If you need to carry 4 people in a sedan, get a mid-sized t full-size car. A compact car, by definition should be small and nimble. That is what the IS sedans are.

    Of course it's compact.... But the fact that it has 4"-6" less rear legroom than anything in its class is crazy! A Honda Civic or Toyota Echo have 4" more rear legroom... A 2-door VW Golf has 3" more... A Mazda RX-8 coupe has 2" more.... A freakin' Mini Cooper has 1" more rear legroom than an IS350!!!

    It's one thing to just chalk it up to being a "compact".... It's another to be even smaller in the back than a Mini!
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    1) An IS250 for an enthusiast? I thought that was the role of the IS350?
    2)You yourself are living proof about my point that the IS does not provide space and comfort for the luxury seeker!

    Kudos for your choice in buying a Lexus LS. It is a gem of a car that caters to the needs of the luxury segment. The IS250 and IS350 are the kind of cars that frustrates the needs of both the luxury and performance segment!
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    Rear leg room is partly a function of how far back the front seat is adjusted. If you add together the front and rear legroom of the IS, it comes up short of the 3-series by 1.6", or 2%. Significant but imho not earthshattering, and not the 4 to 6" you posit by looking at the rear measurement in isolation.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    1) An IS250 for an enthusiast? I thought that was the role of the IS350?

    Bimmer enthusiasts have been driving puny-HP 3-series for years....Those 323, 325, 328, 525, 528, etc.. all have HP much less than 204HP in the IS250, eh ?

    2)You yourself are living proof about my point that the IS does not provide space and comfort for the luxury seeker!

    True. But I am a realist. A compact sedan is a compact sedan.... same as a full size sedan is, well, a full size sedan. I have a family of 4 and would rather put them in a car that is comfy.... A compact car ain't a family sedan...

    'nuff said...
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Well, ahem.... having recently driven an S-Class for a week, and owning an LS, I can tell you the LS is a wonderful, amazing machine - but the S-Class drives, feels and looks better. It also costs much more though..... That's my analysis......
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Perhaps, but its not good enough to make me put up with COMAND. One thing I would like to see Lexus do is provide better chairs. They need to rip apart a Volvo seat and copy it to the letter.
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