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High End Luxury Cars

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Comments

  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    As to marque or brand... it is MB fanatics that always uses this to trump Lexus, claiming that MB's prestige and marque justifies its lofty price, and the breadth of MBs offerings especially in the higher end where Lexus doesn't even compete, makes MB the marque brand. So now, we get Merc1 accusing Lexus owners of being snobbish... what an idea !!! What would you consider all these talk about MB being a higher brand, higher status than Lexus ? What is that if not snobbish

    This because Lexus fanatics constantly say that prestige doesn't matter until somone mentions Acura or Infiniti. You know like in your defense of the IS350 on the other boards. Lexus can charge more because of this and that. Does that ring a bell? I didn't say Lenn was a snob, I said that was a snobbish remark and that there was far too many assumptions going on with that remark. I can't help it that Lexus fans judge everything by sedan standards and try to ignore other cars that MB and BMW make.....that are part of the mistique also.

    What would you consider all these talk about MB being a higher brand, higher status than Lexus ? What is that if not snobbish?

    I'd call it a fact, or pointing out the obvious. Nothing different than what Lexus defenders do when talking about Lexus in relation to Acura and Infiniti. Lexus having more prestige than Acura or Infiniti is a fact isn't it? Yep.

    M
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    and then you try to rub it in that buying a luxury car is itself an act of snobbery ! Wonder why you drive a BMW and not a Kia ?

    It appears you read my post but did not understand the following:

    Buying a luxury car is not an "act of modesty" nor an act of "being stuck up"!

    Matrix which began life in the spring of 2002, 3+ yrs ago is not a car to be called renowned in anything, maybe cargo space.... Then you turn it around like my Matrix experience is already a myth about Toyota reliability ?

    Accoriding to the passages of the "Lexus Bible" called the Consumers Report--the Toyota Matrix is as reliable as any Lexus! You know that same book that you use to bash German brands!
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I have, thats the car I was talking about. The interior is not vastly improved. Its marginally better, but the only really noticable thing they changed is the black plastic of the center stack to a glossy black plastic. It definitely handles better than the previous car, but thats not saying all that much. The A8, 7, Maserati, and the new S will easily beat it in the handling department, regardless of how much they outweigh it.

    I was not amazed by its luxury, most likely because I've driven XJ12s, and remember what true Jag luxury used to be.
  • brightness04brightness04 Posts: 3,151
    Now how does GM fix Saab?

    Just like any other purchased brands, like Jaguar, Bentley, etc. the buyer gradually milks it dry, it may even turn a profit once in a while, like the zombie that rises every 10/31. Economic cycles are such that every decade or so, even the most atrociously run car company and most outrageously priced cars have worse economic excess/inefficiency to exploit. In case you are wondering, I bought mine during the fire sale after 9-11, for the price of a Saturn L series plus a song, it was a good deal, especially considering the additional safety features. Over the past few years, the rest of the industry caught up on the deep discounting, so it's no longer a relative value proposition, IMHO.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    To further illustrate my point: This is the old XJ8:

    http://www.vipmotorcars.com/images/2003_Jaguar_XJ8_35k/26.JPG

    This is the new XJ8. Other than little chrome strips around the door handle and window switches, pretty much nothing was done.

    http://p1.autorevo.com/377/pics/13921_84dcabe0-fbbf-4753-9b3a-20a76db0b606.jpg
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Now how does GM fix Saab?

    Just as financially strapped GM sold its share of Subaru ownership to Toyota there are rumors that GM may consider a sale of Saab. The most likely buyer is Nissan/Renault!

    Saab with only 126K worldwide sales is known to be the most popular vehicle among academics and journalists. Is such a narrow niche worth exploiting?? I guess such a niche is worth exploiting with platform sharing and I do know there are large number of potential platforms from Nissan and Renault that can be share with Saab .

    IMO it certainly beats the idea of Cadillac/Saab or GMC Truck/Saab platform sharing!
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    I can't find this on the CR site, maybe I'm just not looking in the right place, but the WSJ today says:

    The reliability of vehicles from Nissan Motor Co. took a tumble in a new Consumer Reports annual survey, with four out of the five vehicles produced at the Japanese auto maker's newest Canton, Miss., plant making the dubious list of vehicles with worst predicted reliability....

    The survey also didn't bode well for European auto makers, which didn't have any vehicles among the most reliable, or domestic auto makers, which only had two in the top 31 vehicles in the influential survey. Of the worst 48 vehicles: 22 were domestic and 20 from Europe....

    Several DaimlerChrysler vehicles showed declining reliability in the magazine's annual reliability survey....

    Of the top 31 most reliable vehicles, 15 were from Toyota and Lexus and eight were from Honda. The most reliable 2005 model? The Toyota Prius hybrid car, with only 4% of drivers having to take the vehicle into the dealership for service. The Infiniti QX56, that line's biggest SUV, was at the bottom of the list, with 40% of owners having to take it in for repair. Toyota also did well with older models. Its Toyota Tacoma was the most reliable 1998 model-year vehicle (as well as 1999 and 2000 model years), with fewer than one in four customers needing to take it in for repair during the previous year. Volkswagen AG's Passat sedan, with a 1.8-liter turbo engine, was the worst performer for the 1998 model year: Some 72% of owners had to visit a mechanic for repairs....

    David Champion, who heads the auto test center for Consumer Reports, said the domestic auto makers generally are making strides in improving short-term quality issues. But as vehicles age, domestics start to have more problems than Toyota and Honda. "They're closing the gap in the newer years," Mr. Champion said. "The long-term durability is not as good."

    The most common question he gets, he says, is for a safe-car recommendation. Though it varies by size and class, he says, the Toyota Corolla with optional side airbags and electronic-stability control is his most-affordable pick.
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    I did find an interesting chart, showing how the reliability gap increases as the vehicles age:

    http://www.consumerreports.org/content/Categories/CarsTrucks/Reports/Images/0504rel007.gif- - -
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    I saw the WSJ article myself. Also did you notice the chart that showed the BMW 5 series as being ranked among the top cars in terms of largest improvement in reliability compared to last year ;)
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Based on that graph you linked I think VW can be considered the main culprit for the shoddy reliability of European cars!

    Without the details we cannot make any judgements. Just guestimates which are as good as useless!
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    Based on that graph you linked I think VW can be considered the main culprit for the shoddy reliability of European cars!

    A culprit, not the culprit. Check this (don't know if the link will work for non-subscribers):
    http://www.consumerreports.org/main/content/display_report.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=40262- 1&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=333137&bmUID=1130425500021
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Unfortunately I am not a subscriber!
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    When you consider that "European cars" Includes Land Rover, VW's Mexican built cars, Saab, etc, its pretty easy to see how they can be dragged down mighty fast.

    Alternatively, "Asian" cars includes Mitsubishi, Nissan, Hyundai, and Kia, which hurt their overall performance.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    It appears Nissan' main problem relates to SUVs built in Canton, Mississipi!

    Nissan Quest, Armada and Titan
    Infiniti QX56
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Huhhh :confuse:

    What does the chart mean? All I see are nice color seqeunces with a red line scrawled across it!
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    Based on that graph you linked I think VW can be considered the main culprit for the shoddy reliability of European cars!

    The best way to address this is by looking at the chart from CR that Lexusguy posted a few days ago:

    http://www.consumerreports.org/content/Categories/CarsTrucks/Reports/Images/0504rel201.gif- - -

    Notice among other things how the least reliable Lexus is actually more reliable than the most reliable Audi, BMW, or MB. Also notice that MB's median model is less reliable than VW's.

    So, MB is dragging down the Europeans more than VW is!

    That being said, reliability isn't everything, even to a Lexus owner.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Sorry, picture link didnt work.
  • brightness04brightness04 Posts: 3,151
    For what it's worth, Saabs are acrually among the most reliable European brands in recent years, ahead of Volvo, Mercedes, VW, Audi and BMW. If and when combined with heavy GM subsidy, they actually make for good deals if you like European cars. When I bought my '01 9-5 wagon, even loaded it was priced comparable to the Mercedes C230 4-banger hatchback; nowadays however, GM is not subsidizing as much, the current 9-5 wagon is a few grand more than the V6 C230 sedan, making the Saab not such a screaming deal as it was any more.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    So, MB is dragging down the Europeans more than VW is!

    MB does have its strengths ( I do like the MB CDI), but they certainly do have reliability issues that needs resolving!

    Thanks for the description of the graph!
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