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High End Luxury Cars

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  • stevekilburnstevekilburn Posts: 359
    I am glad to hear that, and just in passing, since I care about your spine too much and I have already taken a trip with my college buddy from west point to greenwich in an Elise and back, I suggest you go for cayman instead of Elise (...not cayman S).

    Both Elise and cayman are best cars for handling but cayman is much more comfortable so you will enjoy it more for years without trips to chiro. My two cents

    But who knows you might like Elise!
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    I don't know which model year or equipment your friend had, but the word is that the '06 Elise is much easier on the spine, especially if equipped WITH the Touring Pkg. and WITHOUT the Sport Pack. I'll keep you all posted after I test it.

    TagMan
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,687
    "But this whole thing about Lexus is better in every single way has gotta stop."

    Where exactly did anyone say that? The silly comments about Lexus being an upscale Buick make you look bad. if it was that easy GM would have upgraded Buick or Cadillac a long time ago. The moment I see a comment like that is the moment I know I'm dealing with a a person who can't handle Lexus' success. As for the IS - they are buying the success of the brand's quality and reliability and assuming it's in the IS.

    Tag - reliability is just one factor - there are so many others. Besides Lexus built it's whole brand structure on that principle, so to not talk about it is impossible. For eons MB's story was bullet proof reliability, rarely was performance and MB ever mentioned together until the last 10 years when MB moved more in that direction.

    Hpowders - yep - a service pick-up at 3Pm on a sunday afternoon. That's what I must have seen on Mother's day as we were on our way to dinner. Must have been a mother's day present from the dealer.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Tag - reliability is just one factor - there are so many others. Besides Lexus built it's whole brand structure on that principle, so to not talk about it is impossible

    I understand, but you see . . . oac said that it's the GERMANCAR fans that bring up the topic of reliability, and that is quite obviously not the case, the way you Lexus guys just rub it in, rub it in. Personally, I don't care, but I would like for oac to see the truth about it.

    BTW, after 17 innings the A's have beat the Dodgers.

    TagMan
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Hpowders - yep - a service pick-up at 3Pm on a sunday afternoon. That's what I must have seen on Mother's day as we were on our way to dinner. Must have been a mother's day present from the dealer.

    That was a good one, wasn't it? Certainly gave me a bit of a chuckle. Flatbeds for standard service pick-ups. Riiiight. My dealer shows up with an ES330, and hands me or my wife the keys. We have gotten the occasional RX or Avalon, but never a flatbed truck.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Reminds me of the comparo last year that involved a 530i and an M45.
    The M won of course. The last sentence indicated with a 545 available instead of the 530i, it might have been a different story.

    Well, duh!!
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    You have to know the right dealer.
    Nothing like a good flat-bed pick-up on a boring holiday, I always say.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    You guys completely missed the other more likely scenario.
    The MB was being transported by a good son or daughter as a fabulous surprise Mother's Day gift.

    Wonderful taste. A fabulous German luxury vehicle.
    No Asian MB wanna-be for her!
    Mom deserves the real thing-distinguished heritage and all-a true HELM!

    The only way to fly:
    Air Europe!
  • atlas7atlas7 Posts: 126
    Have read the posts, but haven't posted in quite some time.
    Audi, BMW, Lexus, Mercedes, they are all good cars. There is no one best car. Everyone has their own personal tastes, biases, and perceptions...Heck, I would take anyone of them in my driveway if the model was appropriate. There are a few things that are clear, BMW is noted for it's road handling, Mercedes is the ultimate in prestige, Lexus is duly noted for reliability, and I suppose Audi is known for, not quite sure, they seem to suffer from an identity crisis. So I have pointed out the main "selling points" for most of the cars, but that doesn't mean a Lexus doesn't handle well, quite the contrary if you have driven their new models or have read about the LS460, but maybe it doesn't "handle" as well as a BMW, but I am sure it will handle well enough for most drivers. Point is, they are all recognized for one thing, but they are all also very competent is other areas too. So there is no one best car for everyone, there is only one best car for YOU! Live and let live, let the buyers of each of these fine sedans be happy with what they choose. I am in the market for a new Luxo Sedan and I am waiting until the fall so I can drive the LS 460, so I am going to evaluate all of them. I currently have a sports car and need a sedan. I have never driven any of these sedans, so I guess I am starting with a clean canvas. Will let you know what I buy.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Tagman, thank you for the compliment.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    I had no problem deciding on my 545 even though CR gave it the dreaded black mark for reliability. Given the performance, it was a risk worth taking.

    Yes, poignant, that’s one of the ten commandments of the German-car buyer. Screw the risk, tempt fate, go for the surf. A shark attack is less likely than a lightning strike. It can’t happen to me, and if it does so what? A coward dies a thousand deaths, a brave heart dies once. In other words… I got your reliability right here ;-)

    I spent a glorious day at the US Open yesterday. I’ll spare you any detail except this. One of the things that made the day was that cell phones were not allowed on the course. You were scanned at entry points and had to check the phone in where it was put on a shelf in a paper bag in a kiosk. At first I worried if it would somehow get stolen or lost, then figured I would be better off if this happened. Until yesterday, I had totally forgotten about the idyll we came from not too long ago and thought to myself if a genie emerged from a lamp, eliminating cell phones from existence would be one of my wishes. I don’t expect you to believe that but you get the point. I really can’t stand them and they were conspicuous by their absence. Not a single nag, nary an idiot to be seen making love to his clam shell or heard barking into it for the entire world to hear.

    I’m thinking about going again today. The weather is perfect and the cell phones… I mean stars… seem aligned. We’ll see, the crowds are also overwhelming.

    Too bad Tiger isn’t around but as one writer put it, his recently deceased father was probably honored more by him missing the cut, a reminder of what’s really important.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Until yesterday, I had totally forgotten about the idyll we came from not too long ago and thought to myself if a genie emerged from a lamp, eliminating cell phones from existence would be one of my wishes.

    I absolutely 100% agree!!

    Hope you do get to go back today - how fun!

    Um, totally off-topic, yes I know. :blush:
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Nice read. You must be spending too much time writing copy for ads, lately. ;)

    BTW, Happy Father's Day to all of us Dads. King for a Day. Truth is . . . my family is the best gift of all, and I am truly grateful.

    So far . . . I've been informed that I should relax by the pool, with the wife and kids ready to serve all of my needs. Hmmm, let's see now. :D

    TagMan
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Yes, I should have said that, too.

    Happy Father's Day to all the fathers we have participating here. Enjoy your day!
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Thanks, Pat.

    Pat, how about a little something about yourself . . . without going beyond your comfort zone.

    TagMan
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    ...the silly comments about Lexus being upscale Buick make you look bad. if it was that easy GM would have upgraded Buick or Cadillac a long time ago..

    LJ, if that's your best defense, then we may as well not even play the game. It's easily known that the average blue-haired customers shop both Lexus,Buick, and Caddy. And that thing about upgrading Caddy, hmmm.. As it stands of now, Caddy's lineup makes Lexus look "bad". The CTS(especially the V) continues to be successful, and the glorified Escalade runs circles around the LX in terms of technology and sales(for the same money interestingly), and the STS V8 is a better performer than the GS430(dare I even mention the STS-v?). And pound for pound, I don't rate the current LS430 any higher than a DTS, despite the FWD, it too is just a cruiser, something that it's fine doing and not posing as anything else. Oh and I've sampled a '06 DTS w/Performance Pkg. and found it to be better than the Lexus with the Euro option and the interior materials weren't that far off of the LS430's mark and the silence about the same for about same money with more standard features. Again the LS is better how?? Turn back a couple pages and you'll see all of the Lexicans preaching about the "supremacy" of the LS. Ah, relia.......

    So in that saying, again, besides the "R" word and supposed wonderful craftsmanship and build, what does a Lexus bring to the table? The flatbed-truck thing was great, even hilarious, but mind you both my 760iL and S65 AMG were both delivered to me on a flatbed for the sake of not adding mileage to the vehicle. It's called customer service. So because the MB was on a flatbed, it was broken. On a Sunday, where was it going? Luxury dealers don't open on Sunday's. So it automatically was inoperable because it was on the truck? That goes to show how "bad" you look when you'd sink to this level to prove a misguided/misleading point.....
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    These Lexicans tend to make a joke about things that are so obvious to the rest of us.
    I think the shrinks call that a "defense mechanism."
    Helps 'em to avoid uncomfortable reality, I guess.

    You are correct. The LS brings absolutely nothing to the table aside from its dependability. It will always be the favorite vehicle for the nearly embalmed, blue-haired set.

    I drove it twice right down to the obnoxious gated shifter, slippery wooden steering wheel and uncomfortable seats.
    I would hope the 2007 version would be an improvement, but I'm not holding my breath.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    Plain pathetic. The Shield of Defense.

    BTW: I read that article on the 530i. What a bunch of baloney. Why bring a 6-cylinder to a V8 fight? I'd rather them not even put it in the test.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Because they never forgave BMW for Bangleizing a proven design and adding the iDrive interface, which incidentally any 8 year old can learn to use fluently in about 10 minutes.
    Hence they rigged the comparo under an "MSRP price constraint." The whole point was to punish BMW.

    If you are a performance oriented car mag. don't give me this price constraint BS when in every issue they devote so much ridiculous space to super-exotics that most readers cannot afford.
    They couldn't include a $60k 545 vs an M45?
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    As New Yorkers would say . . . Flatbed Shmatbed.

    Bottom line . . . what's the difference even if it WAS a vehicle going in for service? Who gives a flying ----?

    Gosh, I suppose we had better call all the editors of the car rags, let JD Powers know that things could be even WORSE than they have suggested, inform Consumer Reports that the Mercedes reliab----- has now plunged even further, and warn ALL prospective buyers of an S-Class that with the purchase of the car comes a deep relationship with a flatbed truck driver AND the Mercedes service manager. Give them the flatbed truck driver's cell phone number and beer preferences NOW so they are adequately prepared for all those calls they will need to make if they somehow make the terrible mistake of choosing the S-Class over the LS.

    :D

    TagMan
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    These Lexicans tend to make a joke about things that are so obvious to the rest of us.
    I think the shrinks call that a "defense mechanism."
    Helps 'em to avoid uncomfortable reality, I guess.

    You are correct. The LS brings absolutely nothing to the table aside from its dependability. It will always be the favorite vehicle for the nearly embalmed, blue-haired set.


    Howard, your writing style does get obnoxious sometimes. What exactly is all these groupie mentality and derogatory speak for ? Enjoy your 545 and let others be. I am getting real tired of your kind of posts which are just so negative....
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Howard, your writing style does get obnoxious sometimes. What exactly is all these groupie mentality and derogatory speak for ? Enjoy your 545 and let others be. I am getting real tired of your kind of posts which are just so negative....

    oac - relax . . . let Howard be Howard. He's part of what makes this whole thing what it is.

    Next thing you know you'll be taking a vacation from Edmunds again, and frankly, I like your posts too much and I wouldn't want that to happen. ;)

    now . . . back to the pool for a while. Ah-h :shades:

    TagMan
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    As it stands of now, Caddy's lineup makes Lexus look "bad". The CTS(especially the V) continues to be successful, and the glorified Escalade runs circles around the LX in terms of technology and sales(for the same money interestingly), and the STS V8 is a better performer than the GS430(dare I even mention the STS-v?).

    And pound for pound, I don't rate the current LS430 any higher than a DTS, despite the FWD, it too is just a cruiser, something that it's fine doing and not posing as anything else.

    Oh, how I wish you would think these posts through before dropping them like 3rd period French!

    You seem impressed by CTS sales, but it is behind ES330/350 sales, and will always be. Having sat in a CTS (but refusing to soil my palate drivind one), anyone who would buy that over an ES deserves the resale value!

    The Escalade competes with the GX and the LX, and I haven't seen anyone shame the GX in anything. The 'Slade may be fast, but get a power tilt wheel and some Auto-up windows before you come knocking on that door! Both are better off-road, and more luxurious.

    Didn't the 'Slade just lose another comparison to the Mercedes GL?

    The Deville? You said a mouth full when you said "pound-for-pound"! The last time eye sore it compared to the leaders, I think a Volvo beat it out for drivability and appeal.

    Should I call that post a rough draft of what you really wanted to say?

    If Audi can't knock on Lexus' door, you KNOW Caddy will keep walkin'!

    So Cadillac is your horse now? Just going around the 2nd-tier this week?

    Audi is good! Don't bail so fast! They'll be alright.

    DrFill
  • killerbunnykillerbunny Posts: 141
    And pound for pound, I don't rate the current LS430 any higher than a DTS, despite the FWD, it too is just a cruiser, something that it's fine doing and not posing as anything else.

    You sure sound like a GM salesperson.

    And pound for pound, I don't rate the current DTS any higher than a ES350. Oh, wait, DTS is no where close to the ES350 in terms of luxury, performance, and sales.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    Tag, I hear you. It simply gets tiring to hear the kind of tone in his posts... He needs to give it a rest.

    The truth be known, MB, Buick, and Jaguar have the OLDEST buying demographics not Lexus. Blue-haired driving LS ? Look at the MB owners for blue-haired moneyed people. I'm 42 and have been driving an LS well into my 30's. I am no blue-haired floosy trying to relive my youth driving V8-powered sedans.... Neither is LG, or LJ, or many LS owners here. The IS and GS have very young, upwardly mobile buyers, much as the 3 and 5-series. The C, E and especially S-class are populated by middle-aged to older buyers, who believe in MB mystique and want the badge. My very good friend, an MD, just bought an E350. He could not be disuaded to even consider any other car. He simply wanted an MB for the name. I will say, he represents the typical MB buyer....
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    so obnoxious and untruthful, why do you feel you must spend so much time refuting it?
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    Its the tone, Howard... Just keep it down and less pungent and I'll be cool with it. You do make many good and excellent points, but you do stray occassionally... ;)
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Pool break . . . :shades:

    When evaluating the typical buyer for any marque, it is a generalization that is not even close to black and white. There are so many shades of gray, and exceptions to what is typical that it's absurd to even consider all of it, unless you are an ad agency doing your best to target your advertising.

    There are plenty of young buyers of Jaguars and Mercedes. Success just generally comes at a riper age, that's all, but not as a rule. And when the very young get money, anything goes. Generally, as the success ladder is climbed, the buyer moves up from the Corolla to the Camry to the ES to the LS, not necessarily in that exact sequence, but you get the idea. Or from the C-Class to the E-Class to the S-Class or SL, but again not as a rule.

    These are just typical scenarios, and AVERAGES. Fact is, most people are not average, just a part of what makes up the average.

    It's like the average temperature. Most days are actually hotter or colder. Mixed together and then divided we come up with the average temperature that is seldom seen in real life.

    Someone here recently said that statistics are like bikinis . . . it's not what they show that counts . . . it's what they cover up. I liked that saying and remembered it, but which one of you guys said it?

    Anyway, get the point?

    TagMan
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    And pound for pound, I don't rate the current LS430 any higher than a DTS, despite the FWD, it too is just a cruiser, something that it's fine doing and not posing as anything else. Oh and I've sampled a '06 DTS w/Performance Pkg. and found it to be better than the Lexus with the Euro option and the interior materials weren't that far off of the LS430's mark and the silence about the same for about same money with more standard features. Again the LS is better how??

    Better how? Hmm, that is a tough one. Let me see if I can think of anything. For one thing, Lexus doesn't reskin 10+ year old designs and call them "new". 275hp out of "just" 4.6L? Wow. Sounds suspiciously like the northstar that was in the Deville, doesn't it? That GM 4-speed autobox sounds an awful lot like the one in the Deville also. The LS460 will be packing twice as many foward gears as the DTS. The DTS doesn't even come standard with actual wood in it. Please. It can't even come close to competing with the LS430 (a 2001 design) and the LS460 will just make it look like that much more of a relic that should've died 10 years ago. The DTS is better than only one car, the Lincoln Town Car, and that's saying very, very little.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    Someone here recently said that statistics are like bikinis . . . it's not what they show that counts . . . it's what they cover up. I liked that saying and remembered it, but which one of you guys said it?

    Ehm... that would be moi !
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