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High End Luxury Cars

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  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Ehm... that would be moi !

    yep . . . it soytenly wuz.

    TagMan
  • anthonypanthonyp Posts: 1,857
    Would there really be any diference between the current Lotus, and the next one??This one may blow you `out the the water`, but have you ever given any thought to a Morgan? I know I know they aren`t alike, just a question....Tony
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Phil, I’m sick. This beats Norman. Eh, Phil's the man. I bet he ain't afraid to buy cars rated with CR's black dots. Nope, he ain't afraid of that friggin' flatbed.

    ;-)
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    The man just doesn't know how to play conservatively.
    Couldn't hit the driver all day and with 3 of the toughest holes left, all he needed to do was hit 2 iron off the tee just to place it in the fairway.

    Phil is truly an enigma. I don't know what he was thinking.

    Wonder if he drive a car like he plays golf.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    It's so puzzling. He played conservatively throughout the tournament and it worked. Then, poof!
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Would there really be any diference between the current Lotus, and the next one??This one may blow you `out the the water`, but have you ever given any thought to a Morgan? I know I know they aren`t alike, just a question....Tony

    If by the current one you mean the '06 and by the next one you mean the '07, then it is not yet known how much difference there might be. The '06 was a big improvement over the '05, but it is too early to tell if the '07 will offer much of an improvement over the '06. Certainly the '07 would not likely be worse, so it stands to reason that there is little to lose, except waiting for about 60 days.

    Morgan is certainly an interesting line, but I would not be a player for one. The Aeromax, like the Aero Eight makes use of BMW's 333-HP 4.4 naturally aspirated V8 with 331 lb-ft of torque. And it's plenty fast. Maybe a collector would buy a car like that.

    TagMan
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    You've got to feel sorry for Colin too.
    Man did he screw up #18. Thought he was going to pull it off.

    Phil looked absolutely inconsolable in the clubhouse. Not much Amy could say.
    He wouldn't grant NBC an interview. Quite understandable.
    I almost know what that feels like- kinda like after Oac laces into me after one of my abrasive posts. ;)
  • anthonypanthonyp Posts: 1,857
    Yes I mean the 06..I just fortunately happened to see the car when I was getting my car repaired from hitting a rubber tread....It would seem that there would be very little to improve from the Lotus I saw...Mr Shiftright mentioned the Lotus a year or so ago and as he usually responds to a bmw 7 question, may be a good source for you. The reason I mentioned Morgan is that they rarely if ever change their body style, and it would seem that Lotus should also not change, which I think would then help hold the value--furher it may be possible to get a better deal on an 06...Tony
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    May be the first time an Aussie has won?

    TagMan
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Yup. Greg Norman the last Aussie with a chance to win, tied after 72 holes with Fuzzy Zoeller in the 1984 US Open but lost the next day in the playoff.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Tony - I see what you're saying about the body style. Probably not much change expected for '07, but the '06 added the LED lights and improved the interior quietness and comfort, and added some convenience items. So . . . depending upon what we learn about the '07's, I'll make a decision at that time.

    TagMan
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,675
    Boy you really can't handle Lexus at all. Your posts are reaching the point of absurdity now. I honestly can't even respond to that one as it's such a joke. Glad LG did it though. You are going to have Lexus breathing down the necks of the Germans for the duration of your life and the heat is about to get real serious. When the media starts accepting Lexus more and more it's going to get a lot rougher to deal with. Even the auto rags may start jumping on the band wagon. So accept it and move on and please, please give up trying to lump Lexus in with Buick and Cadillac. You really look bad. I'm almost feeling sorry for you now.
  • reality2reality2 Posts: 303
    First of all this is a comparo from '03. Since then Audi has launched its new A8, MB its new S-Class, and BMW its refreshed 7-Series. The A8L has been the king of the hill in more than 90% of all comparos in the last two years and has been voted easily the best in its class by countless publications. Motor Trend literally "wet its pants" when bestowing top honors on the A8L in last year's comparos. So, at top of the HELM group has honestly been the Audi A8L and very much deserved. It continues to baffle how all of you try to dismiss this, when the A8L is easily the best in its class. The build quality and everything else about it Top Tier and beyond.

    PS> Congratulations to Audi and Audi Sport for it 6th 24 Hour of Le Mans crown in the new millenium in the last 7 years (Bently was powered by Audi by the way)...and the first turbodiesel in history.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Desperate times call for desperate measures.

    DrFill
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    C&D put current A8L in 5th place, behind the LS (1st place, ho-hum), Jag's XJ, the 7, and some other car.

    This was a late '04 comparison.

    And Automobile Mag just put it last in a comparison against the new S and the 750iL.

    I like the A8! But let's calm down, and keep one foot firmly planted in Reality, k?

    Haven't seen the MT comparison, but C&D does the best comparos, and is the best mag in the States.

    I will check that out doh!

    DrFill
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Posts: 1,150
    We were talking about the merits of Bose systems a few posts ago and some people thought that Bose was better at marketing than building high end audio systems. Should anyone doubt this, check out the posts at the Chev. Tahoe 2007 forum. Apparently there are several different Bose systems used in the new GM 9000 platform SUVs, some are installed without features that they are advertised to include (e.g, background noise volume compensation; dash mounted sub woofers, etc.), and there are some unhapy campers.

    You know, it shouldn't be hard to design a great audio system for a vehicle. The designer knows where people are going to be seated and they can't move around.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    That's a win, but let's not put it in the Hall of Fame just yet. Those aren't the class leaders by any stretch.

    DrFill
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    blckislandguy - You are so right. Who in their right mind would want a Bose system in their car, given the choice?

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    The thing about General Motors that has bugged me for years is the way they so obviously provide the bare minimum in their vehicles. One close look and it's no wonder that Toyota and Lexus are kicking butt. The idiots at General Motors have the success of Cadillac because this is the one line that they actually build with their latest and greatest. It's not rocket science. They give it all to Cadillac.

    Toyota and Lexus are so mainstream, it's scary. Such a broad appeal. A huge threat that is going to get much bigger. From General Motors, Cadillac can't do the job alone. The lower lines are totally lost. Ford is also lost and dizzy it seems, and Chrysler may be the last hope for the American auto.

    TagMan
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    Car buyers' median age by brand:

    Division Median age

    Rolls-Royce 62.9
    Lincoln 62.8
    Buick 60.8
    Mercedes 58.7
    Chrysler 56.4
    Mercury 55.1
    Cadillac 53.4
    Jaguar 49.8
    Lexus 49.4
    BMW 46.1
    Ferrari 45.6
    Hummer 45.6
    Acura 45.3
    GMC 44.4
    Saab 44.4
    Pontiac 43.4
    Porsche 43.4
    Dodge 42.9
    Chevrolet 42.7
    Honda 41.9
    Toyota 41.9
    Infiniti 41.6
    Mitsubishi 41.3
    Volvo 40.3
    Ford 39.7
    Land Rover 38.9
    VW 38.7
    Jeep 37.6
    Nissan 35.1
    Mazda 34.6
    Suzuki 33.2
    Isuzu 32.7
    Subaru 31.7
    Saturn 30.9
    Hyundai 29.8
    Kia 28.1

    Of the brands we usually discuss on this board, the clear number one choice of Senior Citizens seems to be...Mercedes!

    source article
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    An indication of the greater WISDOM :P

    TagMan
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    I see....Buick buyers are wiser than Mercedes buyers?
  • garyh1garyh1 Posts: 386
    Steve, let me echo Tagman's kudos for an excellent post. I have criticized some of your previous writings, so it is important to recognize the good ones as well.

    I was hoping you had it in you, and you obviously do - when you want to be positive instead of just incendiary.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Definitely makes the cheese more binging!

    Seems they lumped Scion in with Toyota's numbers, as Scion isn't listed, but Isuzu is.

    Looks like Lincoln customers have all died, and weren't driven out.

    Volvo sports a LOW number! Definitely would expect an older, more conservative, loyal buyer for them.

    LandRover, Porsche very low too.

    Lexus stays on the right side of 50. Mercedes is old-money.

    DrFill
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Good one, but it's actually due in large part to economics as well. There should be two lines on a curve. One for wealth and the other for age. The lines would then
    converge and intersect at places on a chart. The Buick driver would have greater age and lower wealth than the Mercedes driver, for example, and THAT would be the REAL reason.

    TagMan
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    Seems they lumped Scion in with Toyota's numbers, as Scion isn't listed, but Isuzu is.

    Must have lumped Mini into BMW demographics as well...

    Looks like Lincoln customers have all died, and weren't driven out.

    Those Ford Grand Marquis, Victoria, Continentals, are truly for the real blue-hairs...

    Lexus stays on the right side of 50. Mercedes is old-money.

    No kidding.... Lexus is new money, while MB is old money indeed... If you are middle-aged, there is not much to lust after MB for, except when you get to its upper-tier cars/roadsters/AMG variants... And even then there is so many choices out there for the buyer. Personally, the only MB my heart desires is plain ol' E55, my own rocket machine and I'd dare Howard to challenge me anytime, anywhere.... Give me that car, and I'd be a happy camper indeed :):):)
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    of the Lexicans, you can bash me in all you want, but the truth is in the puddin. I have my opinions exactly the same way you put Audi as not a/semi HELM. You may search for many arguements to ascertain Lexus' cred, but many people both here and abroad know the truth. And Doc, I see you're back on your Audi kick. Admit it, you want one so bad it makes your dentures clatter(lol).

    The fact of the matter is that I'm still content on what I like, just like most of the G-car fans here. You like to ride, I like to DRIVE. No biggie, just differences of preferences.

    I too am awaiting the LS460 as it should finally address what most people find lacking. But by then, Germany will have moved on even further. But undoubtedly the LS will remain popular, and hopefully the car will enjoy new company in the younger tech set with addition of the LS600hL, which will probably be the most techno car(it'll probably make the 7 look like an Atari) in it's class until the new 7/A8 arrives.

    There, now you have it. I'm not against the car. But it can't sit high above on the pedestal amongst it's direct competitors based on the merit of a few strengths. I think the LS460 will change the way we view the car all together, both the Lexican and G-car fans..
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    It's not too hard to recognize that ALL the numbers on the charts are averages, anyway, so if you AVERAGE the ENTIRE chart itself, the economics of the chart reveals itself. The younger buyers drive the cheapest cars, and the older buyers drive the more expensive ones. Additionally, there should be a breakdown between the young rich and the older rich. Very different and it affects the outcome.

    On average, a Lexus can be afforded earlier than a Mercedes. It's not that complicated.

    TagMan
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    The fact of the matter is that I'm still content on what I like, just like most of the G-car fans here. You like to ride, I like to DRIVE. No biggie, just differences of preferences.

    Ride v Drive, eh ? I believe I do DRIVE all of my cars fairly regularly. I also do hitch a RIDE with a friend or business associate once in awhile.... Is that what you meant, BlkHemi ?

    BTW, what will be the difference b/w driving an A8L and driving an LS430 ? Both have four wheels, four doors, a steering, powerful V8 motors, 6 cogs, etc... The A8L is plush, longer wheelbase, beautiful interior, and a tad slow compared to its peers. The LS is plush, shorter wheel base, beautiful interior and ergonomics, and as fast as its peers, even with the smallest displacement. Excessive road noise, and high NVH ain't fortes for HELM cars. All of these HELM cars have similar attributes with small differences - marketing, brand, and perception - in the buying public domain.

    Let me answer my own rhetorical question about A8L v LS430: mostly suspension/wheel setup. Remember, HELM owners mostly don't care about skidpads and all that other mushy stuff :)
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    The thing about General Motors that has bugged me for years is the way they so obviously provide the bare minimum in their vehicles. One close look and it's no wonder that Toyota and Lexus are kicking butt. The idiots at General Motors have the success of Cadillac because this is the one line that they actually build with their latest and greatest. It's not rocket science. They give it all to Cadillac.

    Ford is arguably just as guilty. Neither of them can make a modern, smooth and refined 4-cyl engine. Ford skirts around this by having Mazda do it (and practically everything else having to do with cars) for them. GM instead just gives it the old college try, and has the raspy, buzz-box ecotec, like something Kia would've used 5 years ago.

    While Ford's 3.0L OHC Duratec is ancient, its 4.0L OHC engine is from the paleolithic era. Same goes for GM's "3800" OHV! 6. Both loathe to spend money on any kind of modernization unless its absolutely necessary. At least Cadillac gets a reasonably competitive platform and engines for the CTS and STS. Lincoln is even more "yestertech" than Buick.
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