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High End Luxury Cars

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  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Please use the URL button under the post box to create them. With the addition of the right sidebar, it's important not to push the text area out to the right, which links do on many members' displays.

    Thanks, we appreciate it! :)
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Oops,

    sorry!
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    I looked at Consumer Reports as you suggested (April 05 car issue)...Corolla and the LS both get great marks for everything BUT...Corolla is not as good as the LS...

    I am looking at the stats and I see that the Corolla is superior in reliability compared to the LS!

    Corolla 03/04/01/99 is superior to the LS!
    It appears the oler LS are more reliable!

    So at least the newer Corollas are more reliable.
  • lenscaplenscap Posts: 854
    Designman, here is the link to the Autoweek article on the LF-Sh:

    http://www.autoweek.com/article.cms?articleId=103477

    In my opinion, the article is right to say the LF-Sh is 85% of what the new LS will be. Lexus has a history of showing production cars in advance as "concept" cars. They did it with the 1st-gen RX, they did it with the 2nd-gen GS, they did it with the 2nd-gen SC, etc. All were labeled as concept cars yet all turned out to be the real deal except for some minor trim like the grille. Lexus does indeed sometimes bring concepts to fruition.

    It is easy to distinguish a concept car like the LF-A from a production-ready concept car like the LF-Sh. The production-ready concepts look like real cars and have things like rearview mirrors, door handles, etc.

    Also, the LF-Sh is not simply a shell as you say it may be. The article clearly states the LF-Sh is fitted with a V8 hybrid system and all-wheel drive. I'm sure the car has a full interior, Lexus is just not yet showing it. Besides, the LF-Sh just looks like a production-ready car.

    I am certainly convinced the LF-Sh is the next LS.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Oh, I understand - it's just recently become important because of the right sidebar thingy.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    I am looking at the stats and I see that the Corolla is superior in reliability compared to the LS!

    Corolla 03/04/01/99 is superior to the LS!
    It appears the oler LS are more reliable!

    So at least the newer Corollas are more reliable.


    I'll say it again: stick to your favorite subject - BMW. This is the kind of thing that I refer to when I say that your argument can be untenable. Every owner of Toyota and Lexus knows which car is more reliable. I won BOTH products and I can tell you which is more reliable - the obvious one, the LS. For the life of me, I can not even remotely imagine why anyone would compare a Corolla to a Lexus, and an LS for that matter. These two cars are as different as night and day.
  • German cars have never been defined by CD changers and Nav systems, something that Japanese luxury cars wear on their sleeves like some kind of advancement of the automobile. That is where the pluheaazee comes in at.

    Luxury cars are about amenities, and inpeccable ownership experience. If the Germans are inferior on amenities and ownership experience (reliability), then on what ground do they sell their luxury cars? Snob appeal alone? Horsepower is never a trademark of luxury automobiles, nor handling.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    I can not even remotely imagine why anyone would compare a Corolla to a Lexus, and an LS for that matter. These two cars are as different as night and day.

    In terms of reliability they are not much different!
    In terms of luxury and other aspects the Lexus is different

    This is the kind of thing that I refer to when I say that your argument can be untenable.

    As I requested in my prior post what is so untenable about my arguments? I used CR as a source to back up my argument, is that so untenable?? Can you back up what you are saying when you say my arguments are untenable?

    I'll say it again: stick to your favorite subject - BMW.

    IS THAT AN ORDER? ARE YOU DICTATING THE RULES OF THIS FORUM?
  • bdr127bdr127 Posts: 950
    I wonder if this thread can go 3 posts without mentioning reliability.... Geez, it's like a broken record!
  • What do you think causes this? The European car I see all the time with a front bulb out is the 1998-2005 Passat. I mean without fail and its usually on the newer 2001 facelifted model. Is this improper sealing of the headlamp assembly or just cheap bulbs or something else?

    IMHO, it's due to light enclosure design/engineering, either a moisture issue or a heat dissipation issue. I replace my bulbs with the best on the market; in fact I checked the ones on my Japanese cars, and replace the European cars' bulbs with the same brands, yet they still fail on the European cars. It's very frustrating indeed, especially since I used to drive a lot on dark country roads, with frequent deer crossings.
  • BUT this is a far cry from what was repeated in this forum yesterday that buying a German car involves replacing bulbs every few months!

    If both headlights have to be replaced every year, that makes for one headlight replacement every six months on average. Then there are the tail lights (2 or 4 of them), brake lights (3 or 5 of them), side-marker lights and turning lights. The result is one light bulb replacement every few months. In fact, I have a cache of replacement light bulbs in my garage just from owning European cars.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    both headlights have to be replaced every year, that makes for one headlight replacement every six months on average

    Slight clarification required! You are discussing your car! What you are saying is not representative of most German cars!

    Refer to the prior post about Toyota/Honda transmission issues. It would be bogus for anybody that makes a conclusion that Japanese cars have tranny issues based solely on certain Honda and Toyota models! The same logic applies for bulbs!
  • I wonder what is causing this bulb problem. My neighbor has a Range Rover and I asked him if he's had any problems and he said he has replaced both of his headlights in a year. Faulty design or faulty bulbs?

    In the vernacular sense of the word, it's a design issue. However, on a more strict search for responsibility, it's an engineering issue. The designers' responsibiity is to make the light enclosures look pretty on the outside. It's the engineers' job to make sure they work and will stay in working condition for years to come. IMHO, the Europeans just never really worked through the detailed engineering minutia to make sure that the light enclosures will keep out the moisture and dissipate heat properly, yet at the same time properly insulated from vehicle vibration. It's indeed an engineering challenge, one that is a much more worthwhile pursuit for the hundreds of thousands of cars sold out there than figuring out how to put 400hps into a few hundred tuner project cars.

    What really worries me is not just the light bulbs failures themselves, but that being the tip of an iceberg: what else is wrong in the system integration. Considering that today's cars are so reliant on electronics, the lack of long-term reliability could well be a safety issue: I don't want to find out the electronics involved in the brake force distribution system and vehicle stability control is faulty on a crowded slippery highway in a snow storm! There is no real way for me to find out until there is a near-accident. The infamous Car and Driver test BMW was a dramatic demonstration of the issue.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Brightness04

    The infamous Car and Driver test BMW was a dramatic demonstration of the issue.

    Great statistical sampling!

    Congratulations! Now I guess you can successfully conclude all BMWs have bulb issues! :P
  • Slight clarification required! You are discussing your car! What you are saying is not representative of most German cars!

    I have had two 5 series, one E class, and two Saabs of very different vintages. They all had light bulb problems. In fact, it was so prevalent that I thought light bulbs always required replacement once a year and that's why they had annual state inspections. That view underwent a drastic change after I started buying Japanese cars, none of which have had bulb burn out on my watch so far.

    In case you did not notice, other owners are experiencing similar problems. And we did not come here for bulb fixing; i.e. no self-selection like the tranny problem with the few Japanese models that you are referring to. Also, if you want to talk about tranny problem, the Europeans are even worse anyway, in a very statisticly significant way.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    I feel for your pain with German bulbs!

    But your experience is statistically insignificant in terms of German cars in general!
  • Uncalled for sarcasm aside, did I say Car and Driver's testcar electrnoic failure was proof of bulb issue? Obvously not. It was however a dramatic demostration of just how important reliable electronics and dependable system integration are to the safety of a modern car.
  • feel for your pain with German bulbs!

    These were not even German bulbs. The German cars were killing the bulbs.

    But your experience is statistically insificant in terms of German cars in general!

    I have no idea what "insificant" means, but apparently statistics from the driving population in general are significant enough for people, including cops, to notice.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Also, if you want to talk about tranny problem, the Europeans are even worse anyway, in a very statisticly significant way.

    Other than VWs please point out which German car other than VWs have transmission issues?

    This should be easy to answer since most car marques will have a tranny issue!
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