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High End Luxury Cars



  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Typo error: Insignificant

    Is it possible that you have never done a typo error before?
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    but apparently statistics from the driving population in general are significant enough for people, including cops, to notice.

    Maybe the cops you met, but not the general population of cops!
  • Other than VWs please point out which German car other than VWs have transmission issues?

    VW happens to make more cars than any other German marque. Look through the CR rating on cars, Germans don't exactly rate high on trasmission reliability, or any other parts of the car. That's statisticly significant data. From my personal experience, the very first 5 series I had had a transmission problem that required a rebuild. A close friend of mine had an S class that had trasmission crapping out on him within the first year of ownership.
  • Maybe the cops met, but not the general population of cops!

    Your desperation is showing.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    OK let us conclude that your personal experience with a 5 series is statistically significant in terms of German reliability! :P :P

    Germans don't exactly rate high on trasmission reliability, or any other parts of the car

    Stats please, stats! Or are you going to talk about your Aunt Sarah's unreliable BMW 5 series?
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    The LS was and continues to be the JD Power reigning champ for reliability. Not the Corolla. For the '02 MY VDS:

    "The LS 430 luxury sedan, with a score of 90 PP100, is the first model in the history of this study to receive fewer than 100 problems per 100 vehicles."
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    Nah, it's basically the same ol’ drivel. Go unpack, have a cocktail, dinner, then come back to the computer and pay attention… I’m sure you will find something to torque you off.

    Designman: You are so right !!! Geez....Argument for the pure sake of arguing... But I am unpacked and rested from the jetlags. BTW, I think the LF-Sh is truly the new LS, and if you must know it, the wife finally gave her blessing to my 2007 LS purchase. Boy, was I stunned or what ? I quickly had her sign a paper to that effect before she changes her mind :):):) So understand that I am now realllllllyyyy looking forward to that car. I guess a late Fall 2006 or early 2007 purchase would be in the cards. Hopefully, they price the new LS competitively to allow buyers make a no-brainer purchase of this car.

    How 'bout you ? Any plans to upgrade that 530i or the Boxter anytime soon ?
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    in here is obliterating the very reasonable points some of you are making...
  • Have you actually read most these posts? Most of them are routine bulb changes. What statistical proof are you talking about? Nothing so notorious about them, dont you think?

    The phrase "routine bulb changes" makes me laugh. Over the last 16 years, my family owned a total of 4 Japanese cars(and no other cars). Never had one bulb replacement.

    So, dewey, in your opinion, bulb replacement is routine for German cars and thus does not count as a mechanical/electronics failure?
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    True according to JD Power the LS is a reliability champ!

    According to CR it is not!

    The next question now is which source is more reliable:

    CR or JD Power?
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Oh, let's don't.

    Could we just try ... try ... to stick to High End Luxury Marques and not drag every single tangentially-related topic no matter how loosely connected we can think of into this?

  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    I am responsibe for this tedium by trying to show proof that some notions about High End Luxury Marques are false.

    The end-result was a big waste of time and I apologize to fellow members for the flood of posts which at least appear irrelevant to High End Luxury Marques

    I think it is time I take an extended holiday from this foum!
  • No way is the Phaeton overpriced! The Phaeton is cheaper than the S-Class and 7-Series. It wasn't intended from the start to compete with cars like the LS430 which isn't a "benchmark" in Europe. Europe being where VW wanted to make an engineering statement in MB's face. Selling it here was debated, delayed and then half-done. The car was intended to be a cheaper rival to the S-Class and to a lesser degree the 7-Series and it is cheaper than those cars.

    It's not you who determine whether or not Phaeton is overpriced. The market has spoken! That car just does not sell at the price. VW can either cut the price or cease the production. It's that simple.

    Ignoring Lexus, the leading luxury marque in the largest auto market, is also a mistake. Even MB and BMW cannot afford to do that, what makes VW so confident?

    As I mentioned, the Lexus LS started out in the price range of an E-class and still undercuts S-class by at least 20% as of today. E-class price level is where Phaeton should start, even in the absence of Lexus. Otherwise, it is overpriced. To my knowledge, Phaeton was no better off in Germany.
  • OK let us conclude that your personal experience with a 5 series is statistically significant in terms of German reliability!

    After five for five (including three Germans) being less reliable than all the Japanese cars that I have owned, I'm inclined to conclude that European/German are statisticly less reliable than Japanese cars. Most others seem to agree to. As to "let us," apparently you are not willing to accept any report of unreliability related to your beloved German cars.

    Stats please, stats! Or are you going to talk about your Aunt Sarah's unreliable BMW 5 series?

    I don't have any Aunt Sarah. I had two BMW 5 series, one had a transmission problem that cost me close to two grand to fix. The other, I got rid off after having too many small things that needed fixing, bulbs, roof leaks, etc.. If you want stats, CR provides a treasure trove in stats.
  • Dewey:

    Consumer reports (april auto issue 05) rates the ES330 Transmission in 03 as ALL BRIGHT RED and in 04 1/2 red both excellent ratings...It doesn't seem that they actually have UNCOVERED THESE sure isn't in their ratings....

    It is recommended for 05 and called the most comfortable and quiet driving experience in it's class...impressive in fit and finish. a comfortable interior, smooth ride.

  • I missed that Avg. that LS got in 99 for electrical Good catch. HOWEVER; even with all the exectronic gear that the LS has compared to the relatively spartin Corolla the LS is equal to or better then the Corolla in every other year and I do think the discussion started with over all reliability but I don't remember for sure any longer.

    Of course...LS is superior or equil in ALL THE OTHER CATAGORIES...and Both are EXCELLENT.
  • THE LS...DOES NOT HAVE TRANSMISSION I have pointed out. Has not had transmission going back to 97 which is as far back as my consumer reports goes and I don't want to dig out the older issues.
  • Dewey:

    What on earth are you talking about...What car specifically has a better reliability record then the LS...

    There is only the Acura that competes with it for reliability but it is not in the same class..and the LS overall Numbers are still better.
  • bdr127bdr127 Posts: 950
    I'm still wondering if this thread can discuss anything except reliability.... In my previous post, I set a challenge at going three posts without mentioning reliability. I'm upping that challenge to two posts!
  • Reliability is the bedrock upon which almost every single high end luxury marque with a history of success was built:

    Rolls Royce had Silver Ghost, a car known for its silence and reliability;
    Bentley built its reputation at Le Mans endurance race of the 1920's;
    Mercedes-Benz was the benchmark of reliability, for many decades;

    The success of Lexus and utter failure of VW further goes to show that a High End Luxury Marque, for cars anyway, is not built upon charging higher prices, but on impeccable reliability. Reliability alone is not sufficient condition for a high end luxury marque, but without it, one can seldomly build a high end luxury marque.
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