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High End Luxury Cars

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  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    The only way I get an LS is if they offer a true sport package like Toyota does with the Camry SE.

    Don't forget the loose steering ratio on the LS which isn't going to change with a sport package. Your 545 is w-a-a-y tighter.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    Um, LG? What platforms does Audi share with VW?

    A8- unique to Audi(the Phaeton is all steel, with Audi's chassis)

    A6- unique to Audi

    A4- unique to Audi

    Now, I'll suffice it to say and give you credit on the A3. It is a Golf(Rabbit) derivative. But it too has been Audi fortified with quattro and 3.2L V6/DSG, none available on the Golf.

    And the Q7: Audi designed this platform in '01 for Porsche, Audi, and VW collab. Audi designed the powertrains(except Porsche's 4.5L V8's), 4WD systems, systems, interior layouts, and suspensions.

    I'm confused? What platforms again?
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Nobody actually cares about the Supra, either. Outside of the handful of 800+HP dyno queens, what do you hear about the Supra? I have not ever heard anyone talk about its driving dynamics, handling, performance, etc. The only thing I ever hear about is how fast it is in a straight line... from a roll... on the freeway... at night.

    Perhaps you are right. What I was getting at though is that the Supra is the car that people remember from the '90s Japanese sports car craze. If you look online the Turbos have held their value very well. The 300ZX and 3000GT on the other hand, worthless.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Now, I'll suffice it to say and give you credit on the A3. It is a Golf(Rabbit) derivative. But it too has been Audi fortified with quattro and 3.2L V6/DSG, none available on the Golf.

    You're forgetting about the TT. The old one was VW based, and so is the new one. The Q3 is also going to use a VW platform. Also, while it may say "Quattro" on the back, some of these small Audis use a Haldex clutch, borrowed from VW's "4Motion" systems. They are not "true" Torsen Audi Quattros, if you want to get nitpicky.

    You're also forgetting the Golf GTI, which has the same DSG box as the A3.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    The 545 is very fine.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,903
    Hmmmm....Looks like LG has come up with a fairly comprehensive list blkhemi. Who was that spouting off about Lexus being a rebadged Toyota? And what is that they say about people who live in glass houses? I think this one will leave a mark!!

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    To be even more nitpicky, no Audi that says quattro is a true quattro. True the small ones don't have the same hardcore AWD as the bigger cars, but where do you think VW got it's "4Motion" from? That's right, Audi. Audi has been designing less complex AWD systems for about 20 years. The VW merger allowed them to use the technology on less premium marques.

    Yes the GTI and R32 use a version of the DSG. That's not big news. But I can say that at least Audi makes this sharing less obvious than some of the Pacific brands........
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Hmmmm....Looks like LG has come up with a fairly comprehensive list blkhemi. Who was that spouting off about Lexus being a rebadged Toyota? And what is that they say about people who live in glass houses? I think this one will leave a mark!!

    I believe it was hpowders, he likes to pick on the LS to try and get "team Japan" agitated. It really doesn't work. The LS has a Lexus specific platform, engine, and gearbox. Just like Audi, they platform share with entry level products such as the ES and RX in order to keep costs down, ultimately benefitting the consumer.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    Talk about leaving a mark, let's put this in perspective.

    NO OTHER PREMIUM MARQUE CROSS-SHARES AS MUCH AS TOYOTA/LEXUS.

    LX470= Land Cruiser, a 15 year old design.
    GX470= A Toyota 4Runner that is so tall it breaks the adhesion limit quite easy.
    ES350= A mere Camry, with the lesser car looking better in SE trim.
    RX350= A soft-edged Highlander that is faster and simpler than it's RX400h counterpart

    Thankfully, the tired LS platfform will be taken out in the pasture and put down. The IS250/350 is a welcome breath of fresh air, altho it will be once again looked over due to the superior new competition.

    And the GS. Well, in a need to elaborate, the car is the worst in the company's lineup, yes even behind the hoary old LX. What is it's true purpose cause chasin' the prodigous 5-Series and A6 ain't happenin'. The car is cramped, underpowered(base version for now), underwhelming for it's intended purpose.

    Want to leave a mark? Why has the king of all things perfect dropped the advertising for the lamest car in the class?
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    C'mon, LG. I really like the way you converse as you're more of a moderate than a devout "Lexus is better than anything with four wheels" crowd.

    BUT, the Supra, while a great 2+2 with a massive cult following, was not always tops. In fact, the 300ZX Twin Turbo won more comparos than any of it's competitors. And even tho the Supra was a Toyota, the Mitsu 3000GT actually had better build quality. The only low man on the todem pole was the RX. It did not pass the rigorous US emission tests, and the quality was not the best.

    And of them all, the 3000GT VR4 Spyder actually holds it's vale better than them all. There is one around here listed for 25k, a 10 year old Japanese sports car.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,903
    If you share, you share. It's like being just a little bit pregnant! Next time don't ask a question unless you want an answer! I know LG's answer stung because you went into full trash Lexus mode!!

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    NO OTHER PREMIUM MARQUE CROSS-SHARES AS MUCH AS TOYOTA/LEXUS.

    Not true. Acura's entire line is platform shared with Honda products.

    RL = Honda Accord
    TL = Honda Accord
    TSX = Accord Euro
    MDX = Pilot
    RDX = CR-V

    If you ask me, getting into "who shares the most" arguments is pretty pointless. There's nothing inherently "wrong" or "evil" with platform sharing. It can be done well, (TL, ES) or poorly (Zephyr, X-type). Its up to the consumer to decide wether the premium is worth it.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    And of them all, the 3000GT VR4 Spyder actually holds it's vale better than them all. There is one around here listed for 25k, a 10 year old Japanese sports car.

    Only because it was so rare (something like 700 were made in two years of production, and their original sticker was 911 CS money), and there was no comparable version of the Supra. The much more common 3000GT VR4 coupe will be worth less than a good condition Supra TT.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    "He really likes to pick on the LS to try and get "team Japan" agitated. It really doesn't work."

    Oh no? So why is it that when team Lexus members attempt to answer my posts, it seems like their blood pressure is at least 200/130 and their words border on the hysterical?

    That is, if you can filter through all the rhetoric and see if they are actually saying anything which some Club Euro-German members and I find doubtful at best.

    One of your Team Lexus members was so intimidated by one of my statements, he tried to attribute it to poor Dewey for fear of encountering me directly. :blush:
  • Platform sharing is done by every automaker. Some automakers are more honest than others and their platform sharing strategy is in public domain. Examples, VW, Honda, Toyota, GM and Nissan.

    Some other automakers hide this information and use marketing deception and outright fraud. Their lingo is "Nothing which a customer sees, hears or touches should be common, but the rest of the platform can be shared between a 30K and a 70K model".

    Ford and DCX are experts in this marketing trickery. Even though Aston Martin shares all the underpinnings with Jaguar and Ford, they are passed of as platforms UNIQUE TO so and so.

    And insecure customers lacking in IQ and refined taste gladly spend those dynastic dollars on this deception. After all, with plenty of inherited wealth which their forefathers earned they do not know the value of money and the right way to use it. Hence the explosive sales of HELMs.

    Thats the difference between british playboys who are enjoying the loot of their ancestors and Bill Gates who is happy with an odd 911 or an LS 400 and focuses on creativity, knowledge and charity.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    LG, I thought it was the Lexus set who said Acura is nothing more than an Honda with a better service department, so Acura doesn't count, does it?

    But you're right, this arguement is pointless as EVERYBODY platform share. Some do it more often than others, and as you put it, it saves the companies more money that in turn makes it easier to sell there cars. Even the mighty Bentleys platform share, with the wicked FS an extention of the GT Coupe.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    I did not go on a "I hate Lexus" spree as you'd have it. That's what you want me to do, but the players here at Team FunCar have to much poise and class for that..
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Ford and DCX are experts in this marketing trickery. Even though Aston Martin shares all the underpinnings with Jaguar and Ford, they are passed of as platforms UNIQUE TO so and so.

    Good point there. I was very surprised when Top Gear mentioned that the Aston Martin DB7 was a Jaguar XJ-S underneath.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Even the mighty Bentleys platform share, with the wicked FS an extention of the GT Coupe.

    While the GT Coupe shares with the Phaeton.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    Really? Offering all sedans and SUVS is giving people variation? Not one sports car or even sporty car in the bunch and this is called variation? Nonsense. Toyota has about the most non-diverse group of buyers of any brand today! That is why they have a stick-in-the-mud image with people who don't buy Toyotas. You've got to be joking if you think Toyota offers any kind of "variation". They're the dullest, most boring mainstream brand going. Nissan and Honda are much more "diverse" and offer more "variation". Ditto for Mercedes and BMW compared to Lexus. Toyota is a lot of things, but diverse isn't one of them.

    Merc1: These statements of yours couldn't be any more wrong. Your constant ragging on Toyota/Lexus is nothing short of plain jealousness. SUVs and sedans... What does MB, Honda, Infiniti offer comparable to Toyota ? Give me a list of the products from these companies...or forever hold your dissing tongue against Toyota.

    You don't get to be almost #1 in the world for making and selling to only a FEW sections of the market. Name a market segment, Toyota has a product in it.... MB makes crappy SUVs, barely off the dealer lot R (sucks, and plain ugly), the G is an abomination to look at, ditto the A and Smart (eeeewwwww !!!), GL/M twins are poor attempts to buy market tightly owned by Toyota, and their sedans are simply cannibals of themselves. Sports cars ? They are too few in sales to make anyone remember them.... Honda ? What do they have again ? (Civic anyone ?) Infiniti ? M, G, FX, Q ? and these are diverse in your view ? Take a brochure from a Toy or Lex dealership next time and go see for yourself before you spout off nonsensical stuff... Puleaze...
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    Take your language dictionaries to any place on this planet and ask the native folk, which is the best car in the world and more often than not, assuming they understand your question (speak slowly), the answer will come back "BMW" more often than not.

    I wonder how many foreign trips you've ever taken, Howard... Americans are the least traveled worldwide... they'll play against other sports teams and proclaim its a "World Series" or a "World Championship" even when both teams represent only 2 states in the US.... Ridiculous.

    FWIW, the most recognizable brand globally would most probably be Mercedes Benz... Followed closely by Toyota (Lexus is just 17 yrs in the market, since some people choose to forget)... BMW ? Huh !!! What do they offer the world car buyers ? Think everyone cares about a 3-series ??? Puleaze... Talk about Toyota... Oh YES !!! The name is GOLD. Mention a Corolla.... or a Land Cruiser... Go to Africa, Middle East, Asia, Europe, US, Australia.... Did I leave any continent out ? Get your facts right. BMW is such a small potato when we talk global, not just the developed world.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    RX350= A soft-edged Highlander that is faster and simpler than it's RX400h counterpart ...

    Which one came first ? An RX or a Highlander ??? Wanna contend that the RX was not the innovator of the car-based SUV long before a Highlander was born ? EVERY car company in the world shares platforms. Those that don't are either too low in sales volume or out of business. Seems like the anti-Lexus bias shines through your every post that has a Toyota or a Lexus in it... Tends to color your posts some...
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    "BMW? Huh!!! What do they offer the world car buyers? Think everyone cares about a 3-Series?"

    Well if Beethoven only composed his 9th symphony, he would have been considered a great composer.
    If BMW had nothing else to offer but the 3 Series, they would be considered a great company.

    You make it sound like the accomplishment of producing the 3 Series is trivial. Nothing could be further from the truth, Oac. This vehicle is a true masterpiece and it has the world-wide recognition it deserves. This is as close to perfection as it gets for $40k.

    Hey, Oac, I would like you to check out the twin turbo 335i next month like Dewey and I plan to do.
    I'm pretty sure you will have a lot of fun! ;)
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Hey, Oac, I would like you to check out the twin turbo 335i next month like Dewey and I plan to do.
    I'm pretty sure you will have a lot of fun!


    Since OAC convincingly argued that BMW is not an international brand I have changed my mind and will no longer be checking out the new twin turbo from BMW ;)
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    "BMW: World Car of The Year

    Audi: South African Car of The Year

    Subaru: International Engine of The Year

    Lexus: Uhhhh....who???"

    Do you actually "think" before you write anything?

    Who names BMW the "World car of the year"?? Was it some "world" body???

    Who named Subaru's engine "International engine of the year"?? Was it some "international" body?

    Chances are in both cases it's a few weirdo's who make themselves out to be experts coming up with these stupid things so that they themselves can make some money. It's just like the stupid auto comparison tests..just because they say one car is #1 makes it #1 for everyone? I don't think so. If you actually drove a BMW and should have brains enough to figure out what a farce a "international award of the year" award is! OR "world car of the year". Please show me who voted BMW "world car of the year". I sure as hell didn't and a whole lot of other people didn't.

    And while we're at it, it seems hard to figure out how you ever considered buying a Lexus considering you have slammed the GS in just about every way, yet you were "supposedly" soo close to buying one! What a joke.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    "You make it sound like the accomplishment of producing the 3 Series is trivial. Nothing could be further from the truth, Oac. This vehicle is a true masterpiece and it has the world-wide recognition it deserves. This is as close to perfection as it gets for $40k."

    You never cease to amaze!

    I agree the 3-series is "one" of the best cars in the world. I would say one of the top 5 best cars in the world. Personally that is the only BMW I find attractive or desirable. The 5, or 7-series don't even come close to the 3-series, not by a long shot.

    But who says the 3-series is perfection? Is it perfect for:
    the person who regulary carries 5 people?
    who needs to fit 20 cubic feet of work gear in the trunk?
    a plumber?
    how about a 40-year old mom who could give a squat less about g-forces, skidpad times, and braking distances?

    Maybe to you it's perfection, which it obviously isn't otherwise you would be driving a 3-series over a 5-series. In that case, shouldn't there be like 20 million 3-series sold every year in the US?

    Funny joke, hpowers!
  • reality2reality2 Posts: 303
    Also, the W-12 is Audi designed and engineered. So, Bently is carrying an Audi engine, simple as that.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Please show me who voted BMW "world car of the year". I sure as hell didn't and a whole lot of other people didn't.

    You ask whom? Merely the most distinguished auto journalists around the world. That's who!

    World Car of the Year (WCOTY) is a program initiated by, organized by, and conducted by automotive journalists from all over the world. From the outset, those of us involved in making it a reality have done so in the context of one over-riding priority. We are dedicated to ensuring that it is carried out with the utmost objectivity, credibility, and integrity.

    WCOTY has no affiliation with, nor is it is any way influenced by any publication, auto show, automaker, or other commercial enterprise. It is administered by a non-profit corporation, under the guidance of a Steering Committee of distinguished automotive journalists from Asia, Europe, and North America. In that way, it draws on the experience and expertise already developed by various other award programs throughout the world.

    It is intended to complement, not compete with those existing national and regional COTY awards, which are inherently different in scope. By its nature, WCOTY includes some vehicles that may be unavailable in individual regions, and excludes others whose availability may be limited to those regions.
  • reality2reality2 Posts: 303
    So far the Germans dominate this award which an interesting commentary:

    2005: Audi A6-line

    2006: BMW 3-Series

    ..and for definition, the award does not apply to the carmaker as a whole, but to a specific model. So, BMW did not win World Car of the Year as a brand, only the 3-Series for 2006.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    A8- unique to Audi(the Phaeton is all steel, with Audi's chassis)

    A6- unique to Audi

    A4- unique to Audi """

    Actually get a reality check, the A4 is not a unique Audi platform. It's been a Passat platform underneath for years.

    You can bet platform sharing is growing too. You can eventually bet on a Audi A6 being spun out of a stretched Passat platform also. Not to mention you can bet on Benz's and Chrysler products sharing platforms. it's already started with products like the Crossfire and SLk, and it's moving onto to parts sharing like transmissions from Benz's being in Chrysler's now as well as suspension component's. it's not far before a 300 and a E-class could end up using the same platform. They will have to do it to be more competitive and to produce cars more efficiently.

    You can thank Toyota for that!
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