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High End Luxury Cars

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Comments

  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    For me there was nothing in the mid-size class as elegant and tasteful inside and out as the previous generation A6 during those years, not even the W210 E-Class. I almost feel the same way about the current A8, but I haven't seen the new S in person yet.

    Merc, when I see a car in photo, 99% of the time it’s what I see in person. The only visual element I find somewhat deceptive is scale, but it has little consequence on the ultimate impression. Do actually think seeing the S in person is going to sway what you see in photos?
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    ......... is an Audi? Evidently so called enthusiast aren't exactly that at all. If someone is a Euro-car lover, then for sure they'll remember that Audi is the champ in Rally competition sports events and Audi's quattro system is hands down without peer, yes this means X-drive Bimmers and 4Matic Mercs. And for mainstream cars, the Audi interior from a $30K A4 to my $120K A8L W-12 is best in class. The technology that Audi puts in its cars is unmatched. Take for instance the DSG tranny that is light years ahead of even the best(Poooooooorsche) manumatic. It has time and time again scored higher than the BMW SMG and even Ferrari's F1 tranny for ease of use and relialbility.

    What is an Audi? For sure that is a joke and not reality. Audi may not be a household name in comparison to the everyday usual BMW and Mercedes, even for that matter Lexus, it is a car that has the latest technology to compete with even the best luxo cars.

    Don't get me wrong, I love Mercedes. But their quality of late is not deserving of the three-pointed star. Having just owned a S600, S65, and a G-Wagen55 that I'm looking to load off onto someone, the cars are just plan dated. Maybe '07 will be the year Merc and Buick.....er.......Lexus gets it right.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Euroland also gets some great diesel alternatives. Interestingly, they are starting to show up more significantly on our shores. I believe MB will lead in the high-end group with the "R" and "M" and new "GL" all coming in with diesel options, as well as the existing "E". The one that excites me is that I have heard that the all-new "S" will be available with a diesel in '08. I'm going to be patient for that IF, IF, IF, I like the new "S" when I look it over in February.

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    What is an Audi? For sure that is a joke and not reality

    I think you've misunderstood. The point is more about which attributes of an Audi are PERCEPTUALLY known to folks in general. When one thinks of "Audi", what does it bring to mind to most folks? About "brand recognition". It was not intended to be a test of knowledge . . . but rather to get some good perspectives, which it did . . . great and intriguing viewpoints IMO.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Do actually think seeing the S in person is going to sway what you see in photos?

    No not really, but I've always reserved final judgement until I'm standing beside the car. With the S I like it a lot, but I've got to see those rear-wheel arches. In some pics they're way too big and others they're not so big.

    M
  • I'm not at all against FWD; in fact, one of my cars is a FWD, in fact the make was one of the pioneers of FWD. It is a very efficient system for lands that see snow often (like in Europe, and much of north America north of the Mason-Dixon line). OTOH, the many who pay attention to HELM for snob appeal seem to consider FWD heretical, even if their own daily drivers are FWD's.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    image

    Every time I like a concept, in NEVER happens. This thing is pretty cool with some smooth and subtle lines. So what does it mean? I'm not so sure we will really see it. By the way, this is where Mercedes should be. But they chose the friggin' Nissan Pathfinder look instead. Tough noogies on them!

    By the way, with regard to the geniuses in the press who say it looks like a BMW particularly the 5-series, keep this in mind… that butt and profile has the ES genes, there is no doubt about it. Correct me if I’m wrong but the ES was out two years before the E60 5-series.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    A majority buy a Legacy or other Subaru vehicles because of their reasonably priced AWD offerings. I do think a reasonably priced AWD Camry will compete with Subaru.

    And what is likely to happen if there is a AWD Camry? Will Honda, Nissan and even Hyundai allow lost sales to a AWD Camry. Wont they be motivated to offer their own versions of a AWD Accord, AWD Altima and a AWD Sonata to compete with a AWD Camry.

    And if most marques offer reasonable priced AWD cars then what would be the advantage of owning a Legacy. A boxer engine? I dont think so. Most people do not buy a SUbaru because of their boxer engines.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    After painfully squinting my eyes and getting a second opinion about my eyeglasses RX I cant see any resemblance whatsoever between a Lexus ES and a BMW 5.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Keep up the good work while I go on a Christmas vacation to be with family until January 3rd. Unless I can get to a computer that's not being used for video games, I'll have a lot to catch up on when I get back. You gentlemen do keep it interesting, and I can't tell you how much I enjoy your posts. Thanks for allowing me to be a part of it. All of you have a great holiday, if I don't chat with you until next year!! '06 is going to be great . . . I can feel it.
    TagMan
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    Designman - I have it on my pretty good authority that the real car will be 95-99% of what you see. Supposedly a slight tweak of the headlights and the grill but that's it. I think the rear is a combo of ES and GS. There is one picture I've seen - and it's the worst one in that light blue color - that gives it a bit of a 5-series look, mainly because of the tail lights. But this car is not disjointed looking like the 5-series and to me looks massive and graceful at the same time. As well if you look closely at the RX and ES you'll note that both incorporated some concepts of the L-finesse styling long before the GS and IS came out.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    …I cant see any resemblance whatsoever between a Lexus ES and a BMW 5.

    Dewey, I agree, but there is irony because LF-Sh bears resemblance to both ES and 5

    There is one picture I've seen - and it's the worst one in that light blue color - that gives it a bit of a 5-series look, mainly because of the tail lights. But this car is not disjointed looking like the 5-series and to me looks massive and graceful at the same time.

    Ljflx… yes, I agree somewhat, but not on account of the taillights. The forms in profile are similar but the LF-Sh is graceful as you say. Those front three-quarter angles showing the bonnet, fenders, lamps and grille as shown above are spectacular in my opinion. There is a lot of harmony. The 5 is discordant and stubby, the contours and lines of the LF-Sh are elegant and flowing… like the flow in the dynaflow… heh, heh ;-)

    Supposedly a slight tweak of the headlights and the grill but that's it.

    Figures. It's the front end that has the personality and they'll probably mess with it.

    Stay tuned, pix coming up…
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    Designman - the grille tweak is supposedly on the gas car, not on the hybrid. The stance and look of the front is supposedly what you'll see on the car. From what I was told the bulb treatrment in the headlights is what will change, not the styling of them. They seem to know they have a winning style with this car.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    image

    The quality of these photos isn’t particularly good, but we need to look at the cars at the same angle to compare properly.

    The following are what I don’t about the BMW:

    1 – Shape of the lamps at both ends.
    2 – The kink in the C-column
    3 – The snubby kitty-cat nose
    4 – Every element begs for attention, working independently, fighting each other

    Some things I like about the LF-Sh in addition to what I mentioned in previous post:

    1 – Kink in the C-column
    2 – Doorhandles
    3 – Surface contours all around… Intriguing swales and knolls.
    4 – No single element begs for attention, they work together.

    By the way, yes, the LF-Sh is stark in profile but I find the contours of the side expanse as interesting as a rolling sea. And once it starts to rotate into three-quarter views, that’s where the music starts. As a music composer uses melody, contrast, harmony and rhythm to color his work, I find this design to have much variety and fine transition between elements.

    image

    Here go your Toyota/Lexus genes. The shape of those lamps yield the same impression IMO.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    see the typically conservative LS customer base going for that re-styling.
    I believe it will send more of those folks to MB, IMO.
    We'll see.

    Keeping the musical analogies alive, this new LS looks distinctly cacophonous to me.
    I'll keep my Bangle-inspired 5 series.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    "Every element begs for attention, working independently, fighting each other"

    Great line re the 5-series. I parked next to one a few days ago and looked at it very closely. Individually there are some beautiful styling parts of the car. But they fight each other rather than work with each other and it ends up looking like an ueven solved jigsaw puzzle, albeit with beautiful components. A simple case of too many cooks in the kitchen. Bring on the chef of the future.

    Hpowders - I doubt that new LS loses a customer because of its style change. I'll also bet it gains plenty of euro buyers.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Quite a few people in my community drive the LS, and a few drive the S class.
    I know these are very conservative people.
    I can't speak for Europeans or the country as a whole, but if the LS styling looks a little too "brash", I can see some of these Lexus folks switching to the S.
    Of course, this a megatrend does not make and I could also be wrong.

    One thing I do know. Judging from the complete lack of ingenuity in the 5 series cup-holder design, I can safely extrapolate that somewhere in the future, it will inevitably be Lexus and not BMW who will be able to proudly claim for its vehicles that in addition to everything else that they do so well, they will indeed be able to core a apple.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    You know, all of these years Lexus fans have been asking, when are we gonna get great styling, when is my ship gonna come in? Well, here it is, the Queen Mary!

    ;-)
  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808
    Nice job on the posts.

    I look forward to seeing the car in person.

    Designman....as a side note I wanted to ask you a couple of questions through e-mail but don't want to publish my e-mail address in the forum. Maybe our host can help me out. Is that all right with you?
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    "see the typically conservative LS customer base going for that re-styling.
    I believe it will send more of those folks to MB, IMO."

    I'm one of those typically conservative LS drivers, who may be all over this re-styling - IF it's as good in the metal as it looks, and IF the interior is equally appealing and functional.
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