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High End Luxury Cars

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Comments

  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    JJ, check your e-mail.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Like I said. I could be wrong. It's been known to happen.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I dont see typical LS owners abandoning the car because it finally looks interesting. I dont think that most owners bought the car because it looks like old dishwater, and that somehow appeals to them. I think they bought because of the car's strengths, its reliability, ease of use, and cost advantage. The new S has yet to prove that its either reliable or easy to interface with, and the LS will continue to have a significant cost advantage.

    Most owners of last gen BMW 5s and 7s dont seem to have any problem sticking with BMW, despite the new styling there, either.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Yes. I didn't take into account the strong brand loyalty a car like the LS has.

    The 2007 LS could indeed be a megahit.

    I am looking forward to seeing it in the showroom next fall and taking it for a spin.

    Until then I will have to be content with our strategically placed reporters' impressions at the January Auto Show as well as any photos that appear in the auto mags.
  • garyh1garyh1 Posts: 386
    You know, all of these years Lexus fans have been asking, when are we gonna get great styling, when is my ship gonna come in? Well, here it is, the Queen Mary!

    Looks like the exterior styling of the next LS will be a big hit, and I don't mind assuming at this point that the interior will be nice as well. That leaves "handling" as the remaining area of previous criticism to be addressed.

    Do we have any reason to believe that Lexus will be able to accomplish anything in this area that will satisfy both its current aficionados and its critics (if that is even possible)? I have to say that the response to the redone GS certainly doesn't augur well in that regard.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    ALG 2006 Residual Value Awards Press Release

    ALG

    BMW is number one again in the luxury brand segment.

    Honda is the number one non-luxury brand.
  • bdr127bdr127 Posts: 950
    Also note that BMW is #1 for all brands... even higher than Honda.

    For all the BMW "haters", this has nothing to do with the "lease subsidizing".... This is straight from THE leasing source, ALG.
  • bdr127bdr127 Posts: 950
    Thought I'd add more ALG residual values detail:

    ALG's 2006 Vehicle 36mo Residuals

    Luxury Brands:
    1) BMW - 53.6
    2) Lexus - 52.5
    3) Land Rover - 51.2
    4) Mercedes - 50.8
    5) Acura - 50.4
    6) Infiniti - 50.0
    7) Audi - 48.7
    8) Cadillac - 47.8
    9) Volvo - 44.9
    10) Saab - 43.8
    11) Lincoln - 40.2
    12) Jaguar - 38.1
    Industry Average - 49.4

    Non-Luxury Brands:
    1) Honda - 53.0
    2) Toyota - 51.8
    3) Volkswagen - 50.6
    4) Subaru - 50.5
    5) Nissan - 48.6
    6) Jeep - 46.8
    7) Mazda - 46.5
    8) Saturn - 44.6
    9) GMC - 44.6
    10) Chrysler - 43.3
    11) Hyundai - 42.9
    12) Pontiac - 42.1
    13) Ford - 41.8
    14) Chevrolet - 41.7
    15) Mitsubishi - 41.5
    16) Mercury - 41.4
    17) Dodge - 40.0
    18) Suzuki - 38.2
    19) Kia - 38.1
    20) Buick - 37.9
    Industry Average - 44.5
  • bdr127bdr127 Posts: 950
    I just realized that ALG didn't include Mini, which is owned by BMW.... Mini won KBB's award this year for highest resale value, so I wonder where ALG put them.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,664
    Predictions - worthless in my book.

    If they had posted what the result was for achievement of residuals for the 2002 models and compared it to their future predictions it'd be worth something. That way they'd have to explain why things will change or why they will remain the same, whatever the case may be. I said it before and I'll say it again - agressiveness/risk in lease residuals will get you the number one prize every year.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    I said it before and I'll say it again - agressiveness/risk in lease residuals will get you the number one prize every year.

    So BMW plays with the residual values/subsidies in order to accomplish a good rating. A wonderful rumor which cannot be substantiated unless you know the level of subsidies involved! And you know how worthy unsubstantiated rumors are, dont you?

    they had posted what the result was for achievement of residuals for the 2002 models and compared it to their future predictions it'd be worth something.

    Interesting approach but it appears to be quite worthless in the industry. Otherwise if your approach was better BDD and ALG would consider using your approach instead. But they dont.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Speaking of aggresiveness, BMW has outdone itself.

    They are offering irresistible residuals on 24 month leases:

    325i and 525i: 76%

    530i: 74%

    550: 70%

    That 325i subsidy has got to be the best bargain in town.

    If I wasn't already tied up with my 545...ah, I can't even think about it... my wife would kill me!
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,664
    "So BMW plays with the residual values/subsidies in order to accomplish a good rating"

    No - they play with residuals so they can move cars more easily.

    "Interesting approach but it appears to be quite worthless in the industry"

    In my book I'll go by past history rather than future predictions. How what is achieved is worthless and what is predicted is the currency to judge things by is beyond any logic I have in me.
  • You know what they say about forward looking statements in the financial consulting industry ;-) We are talking about minute differentiations here. Is ALG the oracle?

    Also, how exactly are the different vehicle models weighed within a brand?

    For what it's worth, ALG also puts out a Depreciatong Ratings list with a more sensible 5-star rating system instead of three-digit accuracy that can not possibly be predicted three years into the future (not the least of which would be the value of US dollar, which if ALG could predict with three-significant number accuracy should be at the bond and currency trading desk making billions of selling peanut consulting papers). While Lexus and Toyota each has four models in the 5-star ratings, not a single BMW model makes it into the 5-star list.
  • bdr127bdr127 Posts: 950
    Why is it that all the Lexicons say that predictions are worthless when it comes to residual/resale, but predictions trump all when it comes to reliability. Clearly both are based on prior performance and current status/value of the vehicles.

    Lexicons: Once and for all.... You can't have your cake and eat it, too.
  • bdr127bdr127 Posts: 950
    Is ALG the oracle?

    Ummm, yes.

    Virtually all financial/leasing institutions reference ALG to come up with their leasing residuals. ALG has already done all the extensive research (and they've been doing it for yeeeears) and they have a proven track record of accurately predicting future values. If they didn't, then they wouldn't be used as THE source for residual values.
  • bdr127bdr127 Posts: 950
    While Lexus and Toyota each has four models in the 5-star ratings, not a single BMW model makes it into the 5-star list.

    Then please tell me how BMW takes the prize....... ???

    Oh wait, I forgot.... ALG ratings are worthless. If that's the case, then why are you even talking about Lexus and Toyota getting 5-star ratings? If the aren't based on anything accurate and shouldn't be considered, then why do you make a post about it? Hmmm.... having your cake, then eating it, too?
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,664
    Because reliability predictions are based on past performance. In my case I also have 11 years of flawless Lexus experience. See my other post - if they showed residuals of past 3 years and compared those to their future predictions then the report would have some basis in fact as opposed to using auto mfr. data - which is derived from the leases they are underwriting. But by excluding past performance then they have no need to explain any difference between what is actual history vs what is predicted future. Suppose for example BMW and Lexus were not 1 and 2 in past retention values but were 4 and 5 vs a predicted 1 and 2 in the future. Wouldn't you be interested to know what the basis of the future prediction vs past reality is? I have no doubt BMW and Lexus are right at or near the top , probably in reverse order based on past history, but the point is that any data table that predicts the future without correlating past performance is worthless in my view. Buying into things like that is like buying a stock that someone tells you will appreciate in value but gives you no past history or reason for the predicted appreciation.
  • bdr127bdr127 Posts: 950
    If I were to take the past 3 years of Hyundai, do you think that would accurately predict the next 3 years? Highly unlikely, because Hyundai is on the up-and-up.

    The reverse is probably true for MB, Volvo, and Saab.

    Just like stock, as you mention, things can greatly change in 3 years. For example, look at General Motors, Nortel Networks, Google, etc..... What a difference a few years can make.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    "Lexicons: Once and for all.... You can't have your cake and eat it, too."

    Why not? To me, that's pretty much exactly what Lexus gives me. Sure, I like the looks of the German cars better (Audi excepted), and no doubt, they drive with more excitement - but the Lexi look almost as good, the quality is leaps and bounds above, as is the dependability. Cost is the final determinant. Much cheaper to buy and to own. You get your cake, and get to eat it. Anyway, that's how I see it, and that's why I bought the Lexus over the S-500.
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