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High End Luxury Cars

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  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,874
    HP, go over to the luxury performance sedans forum and check out post #8253 and look at the link. I would post the link here but I don't know how. Great video!!

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    remember reading a discussion on the similarities between a Volvo S40 and the Mazda 3. They officially share the same platform; but have different engines, HVAC, suspensions, floorboards, insulation…practically everything is different.

    Apparently your above statement is correct based on Merc1's post below.

    Nothing has been officially decided or announced about a new 300 or a E-Class. Neither car is scheduled for a re-design until the 2009 model year. Also, the current 300 doesn't just simply use the old W210 E-Class chassis either. It uses bits and pieces from it, not the entire chassis in the way the Crossfire uses the old SLK chassis. The suspension design, seats, dashboard layout and other things are clearly W210 E-Class, but the rest isn't

    BUT we all dont know yet to what extent the 300 and E will share a future platform?

    Shortly after the "Merger of Equals" (as they wanted all of us to believe), DC wanted extensive platform and drivetrain sharing between various Mitsubushi and Chyrsler autos.

    Now unfortunately Mitsubushi is out of the picture so the next best step for DC to do is to increase the sharing between drivetrains and platforms between Benzes and Chryslers. And what worries me most is the planned extent of sharing between these two marques. I just hope DC does not end up slaying the goose(Mercedes Benz) in order to save its eggs(Chrysler). I guess only time will tell.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Sharing V6s is ok, many automakers do that. V8s however, should remain M-B exclusive.

    Lexusguy,

    there is no company on this earth that is as good in platform sharing between luxury and non luxury autos as Toyota. Unfortunately very few other companies share that success.

    The disasterous details of Jaguar/Ford platform sharing has been recently discussed here. The details of the success of platform sharing between Honda and Acura is evident when you follow Acura's dismal sales results. Platform sharing among Nissan and Infiniti cars have been discontinued due to the non-success of the I35.

    VW has discovered the limitations of platform sharing with Audi and new/future models with the exception of the A3 will non-VW independent platfoms. In the 1990s BMW was smart enough not to do any Rover/BMW platform sharing .

    IMO putting a unique V8 drivetrain in a MB that has an identical platform with a Chrysler will be a disaster. In this case automotive history is on my side.
  • Don't agree with the comparisons. Just the opposite.
    You can easily got your Lexus serviced at the local Toyota dealer but you cannot get your SLK serviced at your Chrysler dealer

    Crossfire is old tech.SLK350 is a real sport car.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Crossfire is old tech.SLK350 is a real sport car

    Absolutely correct. Despite my worries I think in the end DC will be smart enough to keep Benzes as unique at possible. In fact I dont think they have a choice.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    GM, Ford, and Chrysler made huge $en$e out of platform sharing for years, within their respective divisions, basically rebadging the same cars.

    Yes, there were mistakes at the old big three, but they were not as much about platform sharing as they were about poor business management and poor quality.

    TagMan
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    GM, Ford, and Chrysler made huge $en$e out of platform sharing for years, within their respective divisions, basically rebadging the same cars

    You are correct in saying that platform sharing among the Big 3 did make sense for many years. But the result of their past rebadged engineering is the current lack of seriousness among consumers for Big Three badges.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Thank you Houdini1.

    I posted last week that I am tired of reading all these ecstatic reviews in the British press of vehicles that we can't purchase here-namely, the diesels.

    The 535d is 10% cheaper to purchase and 10% cheaper to maintain than its gasoline equivalent.

    It does give up a bit of driving excitement to its "petrol" cousin, but the only people who would probably notice would be those who race the two.

    Hopefully, some of these fine diesel vehicles will be available here soon.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    "Still got some Jaguar in your blood eh?"

    I do, but my dealer waves me off from them every time I mention that I'd like one.... Still, just once, I'd like to own a Vanden Plas......maybe even for just a little while.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    "Now unfortunately Mitsubushi is out of the picture so the next best step for DC to do is to increase the sharing between drivetrains and platforms between Benzes and Chryslers."

    Are you sure about that? The new Dodge Caliber and the Jeep Compass are actually Mitsubishis under the skin....from front to back.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    The disasterous details of Jaguar/Ford platform sharing has been recently discussed here. The details of the success of platform sharing between Honda and Acura is evident when you follow Acura's dismal sales results. Platform sharing among Nissan and Infiniti cars have been discontinued due to the non-success of the I35.

    Actually, with the exception of the RL, Acura does very well. The TSX, TL, and MDX are generally good sellers, and they are all based on mainstream Honda platforms. The RDX will probably also sell well, and its basically a CR-V with a turbo.

    With the RL, I think Honda misjudged how far the Accord platform could be pushed up market. Its good enough for a $35K car, but not a $50K car.

    Infiniti still has one old fashioned rebadged Nissan, the QX56. I'm not positive, but I dont think it has been a success. I've never seen one on the road.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Oh, they sell pretty well, at least around here. Problem is they are dismally unreliable. The brake systems are woefully inadequate for a vehicle of that size, and they have other little glitches routinely as well. It is a shabby attempt at rebadging an Armada, inside and out. LIke a Tahoe Escalade in the past.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I'm surprised, as I just don't see any reason to buy one. They aren't even nice inside. According to CR, the QX is the most unreliable new car on the market. It makes Land Rover look great.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Are you sure about that? The new Dodge Caliber and the Jeep Compass are actually Mitsubishis under the skin....from front to back.

    Those autos were developed in the past.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Actually, with the exception of the RL, Acura does very well. The TSX, TL, and MDX are generally good sellers, and they are all based on mainstream Honda platforms.

    They were good sellers. But lately that is not the case. While Acura suffers sales declines the competition( Audi, Lexus, MB and BMW) is reporting positive YTD sales results.

    Here are the latest stats for Acura:

    link title
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Still, just once, I'd like to own a Vanden Plas......maybe even for just a little while.

    You can still literally steal an '05. Timing may never be better.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    They were good sellers. But lately that is not the case. While Acura suffers sales declines the competition( Audi, Lexus, MB and BMW) is reporting positive YTD sales results.

    Well, the TL is facing much tougher competition now than its launch in '04, so a decline is to be expected. TSX is up, YTD. Most of their losses are coming from the MDX, which is EOL. The launch of the new RDX and MDX should put them back in the black.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Hopefully, some of these fine diesel vehicles will be available here soon.

    They are on their way soon . . . one to three models years away.

    And like you, I am anxious to see them.

    TagMan
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I know, tag, nothing depreciates like a Jag does these days. I've tried twice though, to buy one, and each time, my dealer told me no. Once, he said, "You're a big guy, you'll feel cramped in the Jag". The second time, he said, "You're better off in what you have", meaning the Lexus he sold me the first time instead of a Jag. I may not give up, but I'm getting the impression he's not a believer, although he carries them. Goofy, huh?
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Sounds like Jaguar has bigger issues with their dealerships than with their cars.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    I read in Forbes that Honda's top priority is fuel efficiency. They have no intention upon manufacturing a gas guzzling V8 since such an engine would be inconsistent with their fuel efficiency goals.

    But how does Honda explain their fuel efficiency goals with their upcoming V10 supercar? :confuse: :confuse:

    link title
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I read in Forbes that Honda's top priority is fuel efficiency. They have no intention upon manufacturing a gas guzzling V8 since such an engine would be inconsistent with their fuel efficiency goals.

    Uh, the V6 RL is not really any more efficient than some of its V8 powered competitors. The Ridgeline is also not exactly a gas-sipper.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    While Honda is making huge strides working out greater fuel efficiency, it would be quite linear to think that their top goal is their only goal.

    After all, they are still in the automobile business, and the old NSX is most definately in need of replacement. Nothing wrong with a supercar here, IMO, while they keep up the terrific work with their fuel efficient vehicles.

    Honda is one of those companies that I just find real easy to like.

    TagMan
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    The new 300 will use the new E platform.

    Just wait and see. This is from an insider in Auburn Hills, MI. They have to do it to save money.


    Yeah we'll, but anyway at this point and time it is mere speculation.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I agree that this should be an easy point to grasp. They are similar because they are both at the top concerning excellent practices, etc. Others are trying to catch up.

    What? I have no idea as to what you're talking about here...all this can be considered as is just a brilliant excuse. No amount of Toyota-induced spin will justify a LS and a Camry looking anything alike.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    It wouldn't just work, I think it would be the best Aston Martin ever. BMW could do for Aston what Audi has done for Lambo. The M3's V8 already has more horsepower than the V8 Vantage. If they used that as a base, 480hp+ wouldn't be a problem, which would make it the 911 fighter it was supposed to be.

    Yes, yes...and I'm reading now that BMW's supervisory board has ok'd a look-see at purchasing Aston-Martin. Aston would be a perfect fit for the BMW Group.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I do, but my dealer waves me off from them every time I mention that I'd like one.... Still, just once, I'd like to own a Vanden Plas......maybe even for just a little while.

    I'd say go for it then.

    M
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    There is absolutely no reason why BMW should have constraints on buying Aston Martin.

    First, the product in the line-up in relatively new. The DB9 is one of those cars that is hugely underestimated. The potential of the car has yet to be explored due to the mal-funding that Ford provides for the maker. The Vanquish V12 was a great lux/performance combo, but it had it's share of problems, hence it's relatively short life.

    As to the V8 Vantage, this is a car with a great chassis and build in search of better powertrain. Yes the car has only 100k price tag to split the difference between the 911C and the Turbo, but the car is supposed to be chasing down 911 Turbo's, F430's, and GT Conti's. 380 hp ain't gonna cut it. At least a naturally aspirated 500hp engine is needed nowadays.

    BMW is in great shape now. With the carmaker seeing double digit profits for the first half of the year should be enough to bolster it's confidence in pursuing bigger oppurtunities. Aston's line does not need a lot fixing, just tweaking.

    Bring it on Bimmer.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    I've read several posts about the 300/E platform sharing.

    Let me say this first. The 300 does not use a DIRECT CLON
    E OF THE E-CLASS CHASSIS. Only the 5-link rear suspension is used. The 300's front suspension uses a similar setup, but here to it's all iron v. all aluminum on the E. The E-Class even uses MB's Airmatic air-spring suspension v. a traditional coil-over-shock for the 300. The wheelbase of the Chrysler is 120" long(3 longer than a '06 S-Class, 8 longer than a new E550). Platform sharing? Might wanna rethink that.

    GM, followed closely by Toyota, are the kings of all-out platform sharing. GM managed to sell 7 different variations of the GMT360(Trailblazer) platform. Folks this is what you call cheaping out, not being cost effective, especially seeing how the chassis was great for '02, but a year or two later, it was found to be old tech with onslaught of new competition.

    Toyota has this problem also. But to a greater extent because they do vice versa of what MB does. The lesser brand lends the more luxurious brand the platform:

    Highlander= RX350/400h
    Camry=ES350
    Land Cruiser=LX470
    Toyota 4Runner=GX470

    And the following are based off of Japanese-market cars that we don't get

    GS
    LS
    IS

    True, platform sharing is a must in this business nowadays to stay afloat. But to say one brand is devaluing itself based on lending it's rear suspension geometry to a car that has sold 390k copies since it's '05 inception is flat out pathetic. Does BMW devalue itself by selling $20k Mini's? MB with Smart(albeit with a shaky start, questionable US stability)? Both makers posted bigger revenue's and profits over Lexus(not Toyota) this year. Interesting indeed.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    And the following are based off of Japanese-market cars that we don't get
    GS
    LS
    IS


    Not anymore. Our IS, GS, LS is now Japan's IS, GS, and LS. When they had Toyota badges on them, they were the same car, just with a different name. Its not as if a "lesser" JDM Toyota was used to make our LS. Its the same with the Honda Legend and Nissan Fuga. Same car, different badge.
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