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High End Luxury Cars

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  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,662
    In hindsight - If you bought an auto stock I hope it was Toyota's. I remember talking about this two months ago and DCX is flat vs a big run-up by Toyota. As I said back then Toyota was the growth buy and still is.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=TM
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    1-yr comparison chart: DCX v TM

    link title

    And sales.... wow ! We got German car fans talking about sales ? Blasphemous !!! The year must be slow with news, eh ! NAIAS will be here soon enough...
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Yes I can recall quite vividly that DCX vs. TM discussion.

    At this point TM has more momentum while DCX at the time of our discussion had more momentum.

    Currently TM stock is doing very well and deserves to do very well. All auto executives including in Stuttgart admire Toyota's shrewd and successful bets in various segments of the auto industry. That in itself is undeniable.

    Unlike TM, DCX is a turnaround situation and I seriously doubt that anybody would believe that their turnaround would happen in two months.

    Whatever happens to DCX or TM stockprices will not change my views on what brand of car I will choose to drive and own. Test driving is what will determine my choice.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    You can spin it however you want, but according to scott's data MB car sales were down -5.8% for the year, and it is only the increase in truck sales that kept them from showing an overall sales decline for the year.

    No spinning needed. Maybe you need to look at the numbers yourself. The CLS is what put MB ahead in 2005 compared to 2004. The CLS sold more units than either the R-Class or the number of units the M-Class added to it's 2004 total. Like I said before they're touting a big increase in "truck" sales because in 2004 they didn't sell that many to begin with.

    They did fine in car sales too considering the age of certain core models.

    M
  • garyh1garyh1 Posts: 386
    Karl Brauer, editor-in-chief of Edmunds.com, has this to say about the styling of the '07 S:

    ... in 2006 automakers are showing too much flair, both literally and figuratively.

    Let's take the all-new 2007 Mercedes-Benz S-Class as an example. This model has long represented the pinnacle of the Mercedes brand. It's supposed to exude refinement and elegance because that's what S-Class buyers exude (or at least that's what these buyers tell themselves they exude…). Regardless, the newest model is neither refined nor elegant. Its formally clean shape is broken up by exaggerated fender flares, not to mention a busy trunk that looks to be inspired by — believe it or not — the current 7 Series. In this case both the actual fender flares (that go so far as to break up the headlight design), and the general sense of "flair" swirling about the entire vehicle distort any sense of world-class luxury car. Some have suggested the S-Class took its styling cues from Mercedes' ultrahigh-end brand, Maybach. Well, there are two models that have garnered styling accolades in recent years and should serve as inspiration — the 7 Series and the Maybach.


    I have to reserve final judgment until I see the car in person, but from the pictures I've seen, I unfortunately have to say I agree (except for the last two sentences, for which I can't figure out exactly what he is trying to say).

    Love the square, hate the "flair"
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Some logic consistency please. If 14k units in the first model year is considered great sucess, the old GS and IS did just fine.

    How about some common sense please. The GS and especially IS were dirt cheap (compared to a CLS) and competed in a much cheaper segment than the CLS and still coudln't sell in the past. The CLS isn't nearly as cheap, and that lease mumbo jumbo isn't going to apply because MB had no trouble at all moving 14,000 CLS. Quit comparing a 30K IS to a 65K CLS and saying the IS didn't do bad in sales back then. Plain ridiculous, you're comparing three different segments with the IS,GS and CLS, yet can come up with a grand excuse for the IS and GS for being sales flops until now. Must be the Lexus math/logic.

    Alternatively, you have to admit that numerous MB models "don't do squat for MB" either; the list would be a long one: SL, CL, CLK, CLS, S AMG, E AMG, C AMG, CL AMG, SLK AMG, G, G AMG, etc. etc, accounting for more than 3/4 models in the MB lineup.

    I guess you have the sales numbers for those AMG models to back up this really bogus claim right? Most if not all of cars you mention cost more than most any Lexus, yet they're supposed to set the sales charts on fire. All those models most certainly do add up when the final numbers are counted, difference is you don't see anyone constantly harping about how Mercedes is going to outsell this and outsell that everytime someone brings up ANY other aspect of an automobile.

    Twist, spin and twist is your game here..knowing full well those high-end models like "E AMG", "C AMG" aren't going to set a sales chart on fire, yet two of Lexus main cars, priced attractively in a competitive segment couldn't sell at all (first IS) and/or dropped off like a rock (GS after 2000). Two compare the two segments is silly and I think you know this.

    One minute the AMG models mean nothing in the total sales picture (your words from a few weeks ago) now they're supposed to set the sales charts on fire, nevermind that nothing from Lexus competes with these models and in most cases no Lexus is even in the same price range. The CL,SL,G, and their AMG versions, plus the AMG versions of the E,C,SLK, and G. Absurd.

    M
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    C&D formally reviewed the S550 this month, and I really dont remember any complaints about the styling. Strangely, they said that the new knob based COMAND system is the best one in a German car yet (even better than MMI) and at the same time, had a piece on how difficult it was to do simple operations like changing the radio station. C&D contradicted itself several times this issue, actually.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I haven't seen a review of the new S yet that didn't say that the new Comand Controller wasn't the easiest to use of the three German systems. It isn't unusual for one or two C&D editors to go against their overall view in that counterpoint section, but a whole section about Comand and what not that doesn't say the same thing as the roadtest? :confuse:

    C&D overall is becoming really fickle now it seems, even more so than usual.

    The usually harsh British press loves the car.

    M
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    "Its formally clean shape is broken up by exaggerated fender flares, not to mention a busy trunk that looks to be inspired by — believe it or not — the current 7 Series. In this case both the actual fender flares (that go so far as to break up the headlight design), and the general sense of "flair" swirling about the entire vehicle distort any sense of world-class luxury car. Some have suggested the S-Class took its styling cues from Mercedes' ultrahigh-end brand, Maybach. Well, there are two models that have garnered styling accolades in recent years and should serve as inspiration — the 7 Series and the Maybach."

    I have to reserve final judgment until I see the car in person, but from the pictures I've seen, I unfortunately have to say I agree (except for the last two sentences, for which I can't figure out exactly what he is trying to say).


    He's being sarcastic.
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    Autoexpress article

    (cross-posted on the 2007 LS forum)

    Anyone know how the 500Nm translates into lb-ft?

    Also, lexusi had some interesting tidbits here.
  • docnukemdocnukem Posts: 485
    500 newton meter = 368.781 pound foot. :)
  • garyh1garyh1 Posts: 386
    He's being sarcastic.

    Thanks. Reading it again in the light of day, that seems obvious. That will teach me to try to interpret subtle humor after midnight!
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    If that 370hp holds true that will be the biggest leap in hp ever from one LS to another. It make sense though because they always split hp between the two S-Class V8 models. In this case those two being the 335hp S450 and the 382hp S550.

    Funny how you posted this article on the LS board right after someone else claimed that their "sources" told them this stuff.

    M
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Well, the bump from 4.0 to 4.3 at least on paper made basicaly no change at all. They already had 290hp out of the last few years of the 4.0 (300hp in the GS version). A few ft.lbs of torque, and that was it. They need a lot more than a few more ft.lbs of torque this time around in order to keep up with the S550 and 750i.
  • bdr127bdr127 Posts: 950
    BMW is the number one luxury car seller in USA!

    I would not call 325i a luxury car. That model alone accounts for about half of all BMW car sales.


    So there we have it. BMW isn't in the luxury car business. That'll be news to a lot of people....
  • ideleidele Posts: 200
    Yes I bought TM in June for the first time ever after ordering an RX400h. I wondered about the stock, checked it out, decided it was a bargain. As of today up over 50% and I wouldn't be surprised if I doubled my money by the end of 2006. The RX400h is excellent and I'm first at my dealer for the GS450h. The RX400h is doing really well in
    the wealthy West Los Angeles precincts. The GS450h being a real performance sports car will be a sensation.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    It's soooooooooo goooooood to be back home from my Christmas vacation with the family. I noticed that Merc1 shot off the first post of the year. Congratulations, Merc1.

    I'm going to tiptoe nice and easy into my first post of the year with a simple prediction. Nothing too dangerous.

    The critics can say whatever they want. I absolutely predict the new '07 Mercedes S-Class will be a significant success story.

    Additionally, I'll go out on a limb and jump into the future a little bit and further predict that the upcoming Mercedes GL will stand up against the large SUV downturn, and will sell pleasantly well.

    The market is "ripe" for this new S-Class. Just watch.

    TagMan
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    In the US, the fight will be between LS, S, and 7. The A8 and XJ will remain on the sidelines, deservedly or not.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Well 370hp and a 8-speed tranny, can't wait to see that, even if it is a Lexus. ;)

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Welcome back, naturally I hope you're right. I think the S will be a hit, but the GL I'm not as sure about.

    M
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