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High End Luxury Cars



  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    In a sort of role-reversal here, the S450 will represent the "value" vehicle to some respects. This should not be hard to understand because for YEARS, the LS430 had less horsepower, and we heard the argument about how that didn't matter to many buyers.

    Tag, I don't think that's correct. I think that for quite a few years, the LS430 has had an hp and 0-60 advantage over the S430. I haven't gone back and checked so I'm not 100% sure, though.
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    And p.s., it was the germancarfans who tended to say that hp and straightline performance weren't critical.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,251

    So far there are no CD/JD Power stats on the Q7 but it may end up earning the same number of CR black holes earned by its Touareg cousin. I have much more confidence in the various cars Audis sell(not all of them) than their Q7.

    I also have confidence about the future reliability of my 5 series wagon(the 3.0l has passed the test of time with great success). But I am a bit worried about the reliability of the untestsed twin turbo 3 series. Despite my concern I cant resist that car and I will soon be visiting my dealer to make a deal.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,251
    And p.s., it was the germancarfans who tended to say that hp and straightline performance weren't critical.

    German car fans in the past few decades have found hp as not the only important factor in a performance car.

    BMW's history of being an hp laggard is decades old(at least BMWs without the M initial). And despite this history BMW has always been referred to as a manufacturer of performance cars.

    Currently BMW's history is being re-written with the new BMW335i since this will be the first BMW that I can remember that has an hp level that is equivalent to the top contenders in its segment (without mentioning the 335i's superior gobs of torque).

    I think future models of the 5 and 7 series will experience a major inflation in HP and will lose their stigma of being HP laggards.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,296
    The Q7 problems should give a boost to sales of the new MDX.
    I will drive the Acura when it comes out next month.
    I wouldn't touch the Q7. :lemon:
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    The MDX isn't going to be quite as luxurious as I want (meaning, I don't care for faux wood), but I'll probably buy either it or the rumored JX. Not sure if the latter would be roomy enough, but it should be luxurious enough.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,251
    but a 4-door convertible S550, never! IMO of course.

    Well Merc you know the old saying: "Never ever say never".


    Apparently the sister company of MB will likely be introducing a 4 door convertible in the form of the next generation Chrysler 300C. If there is a 4 door convertible Chrysler than why not a 4 door convertible S Class Benz?

    Also notice that the link below provides no mention whatsoever of platform sharing between the future LX platform of the 300C and the MB E Class.

    I strongly believe the rumors of increased platform sharing between the future 300C and the E Class are highly unlikely.

    2010 Chrysler 300C Convertible
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Our previous rhetoric and debates won't matter. The marketplace will allow for the S550 to have the horsepower advantage, the LS460 to have the Lexus "value" in comparison to the S550, and for the S450 to offer the Mercedes "value" in comparison to the LS460.

    At this point, that's how I see it.

    And remember, all S-Class vehicles are long wheelbase, BTW.

  • deweydewey Posts: 5,251
    I remember reading all this hullaballoo about the Lexus LS Self- Park feature. Who cares about parking when you can get a car that can drive itself? Well folks it appeare First Auto Works from China has a sophisticated new car with a self drive feature.

    Here is a picture of the FAW Hongqi (Red Flag) HQ3 :


    Chinese carmaker First Auto Works (FAW) is demonstrating a sedan that drives itself. Equipped with two cameras hooked up to a computer guidance system of some sort, the FAW Hongqi (Red Flag) HQ3 prototype is designed to navigate its way through streets, avoiding obstacles and stopping at traffic signals.

    FAW demonstrated the car at the Northeast Asia Investment and Trade Expo, where it was limited to a snail-pace 37 mph, though the automaker claims it could safely operate at speeds up to 93 mph

    Here is my dire warning: Once you allow yourself to buy a car that electronically self parks itself then what will stop you from buying a future car that will self drive itself? If this temptation is prevalent among car buyers then driving enthusiasts will become nothing more than relics of the past ( in other words as extinct as a Tasmanian Tiger) :(
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    You must have missed my post last month about the Volkswagen vehicle that drives itself.

    link title

  • deweydewey Posts: 5,251

    This self-drive idea is spreading like a contagious disease. ;)
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,681
    I suppose the next logical step is for the car to self-order itself as a newer model when the current lease expires...
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    and then deliver itself to your house. ;)
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    Did we miss all of the tranny probs over at Acura MDX? All of the broken suspension pieces of the rude n' crude ruff n' tumble Caddy Escalade? The air-suspension failures and sludge build up in the engines of the LC/LX Toyota's? Then for sure you must've read all of the posts about the all-time lemon, the QX56?

    Folks, no car on inception is a safe bet. The Q7 has been a strong seller in Europe(number 1 in sales, handidly beating the GL(4-1), X, and various Euro models) and is off to a great start in the States, boosting Audi's sales over 41%, along with the A4. For sure that number will only grow when the introduce they V-6 variant as you're reading this and the hi-po V10 and V12 TDI.

    The Q7 doesn't appear to have all of the inherit electrical probs that the T'regg/Cayenne has. If the models were such lemons, then how would Porsche stay in the top 3 of all out reliability with the Cayenne being such a popular vehicle? You can't have it both ways. And if you think the Q7 is a lemon, then the Porsche must be a lemon with a little vinegar on it because this thing is loaded with way more stuff than it's cousins, altho the Audi is only loosely based on them.

    In summation, if I listened to all of the ranting and disgruntled posters here, I would've never bought an MB or Audi. But all of my cars have served me as promised. Even the supposed pathetic A8 has been one of the most reliable cars that we've ever owned. Some people who own a Lexus, Toyota, Infiniti, or Acura don't get in their cars everyday and it works like a gem. Read the posts, and you'll find out....
  • it's a little early to call the Q7 a lemon although their are problems. If 6 months to a year go by and those problems still persist, then I will jump on board. I talked my wife out of the Toureg with all the problems I read about even though it drove better than half the suv's in the class. The problem with the toureg is that it seems as though the problems are varying and numerous. I don't see as many varying issues with the Q7 as of yet, but the night is young so to speak.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,926
    if this "new" BMW I6 will usher the return of the 735i? Three hundred HP should be plenty to get that battleship moving.
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    Not all Lexus owners have had 100% happy experiences, including me. But the historical statistical evidence is that, even with first-year models, certain brands (like Lexus) have proven to be safer bets from a reliability perspective.

    I wouldn't hesitate to buy a 1st year Lexus model, based on that historical record. With Acura the 1st-year record isn't as good, but is acceptable and with the MDX I might buy a 1st year model if I view it as sufficiently attractive vs the competition. But with a German model, because of history I would wait to read annecdotal evidence and large-scale survey data re reliability, since reliability is a concern of mine. On the German side, I don't think a Q7 or GL are sufficiently reliable for me, though an S might be.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,296
    True. Acura can never be taken seriously as a luxury brand so long as it insists on using its rather unique test tube version of "wood." :(
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,296
    And fill out the paper work too.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,296
    I would probably go with the new Acura but would have to check out the "wood"( :surprise: ) for myself.
    Could be a deal-breaker.

    The reviewers have been raving-comparing it to Porsche and BMW in handling.

    Haven't had a Japanese vehicle since my 1983 Mazda 626.
    Getting tired of seeing that same old BMW dash after 13 years.
    But the wood has been real! :blush:
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    Agreed. Historically in recent times, the Japanese brands have been more reliable off the bat than the Euro/American models. But they're not immune...
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    The 735i exixts. Yes this is true. The Europeans have the all to cool option of having a combined 25mpg 7-Series WITHOUT i-Drive... :shades:

    I don't think we'll see a six-cylinder 7 at least until the next model, which BMW has promised to spice things up for the American market. The return of the six-cylinder model may be on contention that MB releases the S350... But who knows with BMW as they operate under a model of secrecy. Who saw the twin-turbo coming last year.... nobody.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Acura can never be taken seriously as a luxury brand so long as it insists on using its rather unique test tube version of "wood."


    Particularly for an SUV, I think this current MDX meets the criteria . . . fake wood and all.



  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,296
    Test tube "wood".

    A cruise ship-sized steering wheel.

    No front passenger power lumbar.

    No power liftgate unless ordering the rear entertainment package.

    However, aside from the "wood" and large steering wheel, coming from BMW, I have to say I like the interior quite a bit.

    Looking forward to sitting in one.
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    Well, if you buy your wife zircon jewlery instead of real diamond, can it be considered a luxury? I haven't seen the new MDX in person, but I think the faux wood might look more visually different from real wood than say zircon looks from diamond.

    On the other hand, wood trim isn't an overwhelming portion of the buying decision.
  • the fake wood thing with Acura. Their is a trade off however. Arguably the best nav system as far as auto manufacturers go. The quality of their electronics in general. And the new Elliot Schnieder sound system is second only to the B&O in the S8 IMO.
    If BMW had a Honda/Acura nav system, their would be nothing to complain about. :blush:
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,296
    be the last kid on my block without a navigation system.
    What did we all do for so many years without one?

    I can easily plan my trips on the internet in advance.

    I must admit, however, that there have been occasions when I was told to go North and it should have been South. :blush:
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,251
    The MDX is nothing more than a Pilot with a tuxedo and somewhat sportier sneakers.

    What is a RDX? A CRV with a blazer and track pants.

    What is a TL? An Accord with a suede jacket and a Nike sweat shirt.

    I can go on and on like this for every single Acura product. Kudos for Lexus and Infiniti for at least having some models with a distinctive platform.

    The only Japanese luxury SUV I admire is the Infiniti FX with its distinctive platform that is not shared with a Nissan.

    And in order to pre-empt an attack on my post I would like to state the obvious: Yes my logic applies equally to German SUVs like the Q7 and Cayenne sharing a platform with a VW. If I had to choose a German luxury SUV I would buy either a BMW X5 or a MB ML whose platforms are not shared with a mainstream manufacturer.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,681
    The only Japanese luxury SUV I admire is the Infiniti FX with its distinctive platform that is not shared with a Nissan.

    Nissan Murano
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