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High End Luxury Cars

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Comments

  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    Tagman - I'm not a fan of model replica. Lexus is just doing this foray now for the first time. I buy at the upper end so looking at a much cheaper car in the IS or the C-class if I were an MB buyer - as a smaller look alike is not something I'm happy about. I always thought the design features of the S-class (current car) were beautiful but looked bad on a much smaller car like the C. So this cookie cutter stuff is not for me but if the whole market is doing it what can you do about it.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    The CLS is unique already.

    Indeed it is. Correct me if I am wrong but I believe it is the first car to look like a banana. But hey, it's selling like hotcakes so who am I to argue. MB has a serious identity crisis. Then again, and I've said this before, they could collapse in a puff of smoke and people will be stepping on each other to salvage the badges. That's how strong the brand is.

    ;-)
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    The stats on the ICE LS make one wonder how the hybrid is going to look. Might we see it perform near the V12s from BMW/MB? Well, at least we know the MPG is going to be good.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    True the selected specs you chose to compare the Lexus LS460 is more impressive than the Germans.

    During its introduction the specs of the new Lexus GS did sound impressive too, but I guess most members here know how well the GS compares to the competition.

    During its introduction the specs for the Lexus IS350 sounded impressive especially when compared to the BMW 330i. Unfortunately superior specs does not neccessarily guarantee superior road tests.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    end so looking at a much cheaper car in the IS or the C-class if I were an MB buyer

    Cant disagree with what you are saying but with one exception: BMW. The heart and soul of BMW is still the 3 series. Without the 3 series, BMW would lose the vehicle that defines what BMW was and still is all about: Exciting small enthusiast sport sedans.

    Beyond the 3 and 5 series my interest in BMWs becomes nil.
    In fact any car that is bigger than the 5 series tunes me right out.
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    Unfortunately superior specs does not neccessarily guarantee superior road tests.

    True enough, though remember that at this level we are not talking about sports sedans. Even if the new LS drives exactly like the old one, it will be just fine for many potential buyers (...and judging from recent sales numbers, more potential buyers than the "better driving" 7-series). Not everyone in the HEL sedan market wants a BMW ride.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Even if the new LS drives exactly like the old one, it will be just fine for many potential buyers (...and judging from recent sales numbers, more potential buyers than the "better driving" 7-series). Not everyone in the HEL sedan market wants a BMW ride.

    I agree. Most people who want a better driving BMW will choose one of the 7 series smaller siblings(3 or 5 series, preferably a M3 or M5)
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    link title

    (click the "movie" link at the bottom)
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Well, I am now convinced that the LF-Sh is the new LS. In my opinion it is a handsome car. Congrats to all of you LS fans and buyers! Enjoy it!
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Correct me if I am wrong but I believe it (Mercedes CLS) is the first car to look like a banana.

    You stand corrected. As much as I love the XJ Jaguar, I do not have the same feeling for the S-Type. Sorry, but the S-Type was the earlier banana.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    WOW! True situation. The 3-series is indeed the bread and butter car, but which model represents the ultimate BMW? The 3? The M3? What then?
  • brightness04brightness04 Posts: 3,151
    Very well said, both Lexusguy and Oac. Lexus is the ultimate system integrator (the fundamental role of a carmaker). Other companies don't copy any specific Lexus product because they know damn well it's near-suicidal trying to compete against existing Lexus forte head-on.

    At the same time, everyone is trying to copy Lexus/Toyota manufacturing techniques . . . in the off chance that Lexus/Toyota should fumble, they may get a break to pull ahead. I'm sure some day that will happen too; Lexus/Toyota won't stay at the top for ever, but for now and the forseeable future . . . ;-)
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Tagman - I'm not a fan of model replica...

    So this cookie cutter stuff is not for me...


    We agree totally on this, ljflx. As I mentioned, Mercedes is apparently going to break out of this approach with the new upcoming models, but it definately appears, unfortunately, that Lexus is entering into this to a greater extent with its newer models. We'll see what difference it makes, if any.

    TagMan
  • brightness04brightness04 Posts: 3,151
    For what it's worth, comparing the back seat of a car to the seats in a private jet was actually started by some MB boffin at a Maybach product intro a few years ago. Kinda interesting, considering "riding on the clouds" has a distinctively negative connotation for some euro lovers nowadays . . . never mind that's the ultimate goal of H.E.L.M since the days of 1906 Silver Ghost . . . almost exactly 100 years ago!
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    "BMW would lose the vehicle that defines what BMW was and still is all about: Exciting small enthusiast sport sedans"

    You know that is substantiating a statement made yesterday - that being the 3 is not truly a luxury car.

    I'd disagree with your statement on smaller size being key. If BMW driving dynamics were what I was looking for and my needs were a large family sedan than the 7 would be the car and the class leader of BMW in my eyes.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    Tagman - I haven't read what you are saying about class differentiation with the S and the rest of MB. The S has been the lead changer in the MB model line-up so I'd expect the E and C to be cookie cutter copies within a few years. Have you seen something to the effect that this go round will be different?
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    So sorry you missed the point by a country mile. The plane remark was fine. It was the level of drunken excitement that was humorous, and that was the point . . . not the comment itself.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Yes, this is interesting. The obvious new S-Class is now a given. We know what it will look like. But what is interesting is that the early information that has been leaking out about the E and C indicate that they may not follow the look of the S quite so closely this time. And you are right that we would have expected them to be smaller replicas. It is highly conceivable that they will not, however, and they will have more individual attributes.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    disagree with your statement on smaller size being key. If BMW driving dynamics were what I was looking for and my needs were a large family sedan than the 7 would be the car and the class leader of BMW in my eyes.

    It's definitely not what you are looking for and I pray that the BMW 7 series does not ever resemble the driving dynamics that you seek in a Lexus. I dont mean that in any negative way whatsoevr. I am just trying to say that it would be tragic if Lexuses began to drive like BMWs and BMWs began to drive like Lexuses because if that was the case then many customers of both these marques would feel alienated.


    You know that is substantiating a statement made yesterday - that being the 3 is not truly a luxury car.

    Absolutely right. The 3, especially the M series is the ultimate driving machine and not a ultimate luxury machine. Anyone believing otherwise are deceiving themselves.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    Don't know why people think a new model will or has to put others out of business. That is way over the top and inconceivable. The American market has 3 key/dominant players in the large high-end lux sedan segment and it will be that way for the forseeable future. I think the new LS and the new S will cut Audi back to a 1500-2000 a year car though. Great cars can lift the entire segment up and that's what we want. The competition holds in price points and the consumer wins. We don't want a one car segment here.
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