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High End Luxury Cars

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  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Was that article written before or after they tested the BMW335i?

    Before, of course.

    M
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    All of this info can be found in today's WSJ. Toyota has not surpassed GM as of yet. There is some major work left to do before that happens. But they are on track to pass Ford this year.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    So intially Ford was to follow the plan of GM and shutter or downsize several plants and layoff 30k workers. Now they're to double that under Mulally?? What is going to be left of this company?

    And you're right. The products are very far and few between. They just don't produce cars people want to buy. No one says I want that underpowered and overwhelmed Five Hundred when they can have that spiffy new Camry, Accord, or even Impala. The same for the for the Zephyr(MKS). For 33k, there are at least 20 cars to be had at that price that is a more attractive deal. Even with the massive 8k off, I'd still be hard pressed to take it over an Accord, Camry, or even a Sonata, even with the MKS' supposed better interior.

    The Explorer, the SUV that ruled the world, has fallen off so far that the company is now said to make an off-road model due to the Ford Edge being the more desired model. With all of this money spent in '06 to make the Explorer explore better, then why not create the Edge as the new Explorer in the first place??

    And even the F-150 line is a major letdown. They're going to let SRT walk all over them in a category that SVT made hot with the Lightnin. The new Harley-Davidson Ford should've never seen the light of day.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    Tag, I'm well aware of this company's recent surge in recalls. This is the sort of thing that happens when we try to outpace ourselves without double checking all of the screws and bolts, so to speak.

    1.75m vehicles worldwide to be recalled is a lot for any manufacture. Toyota has to remember to put it's quality first or people will walk away. Fast. In this day and age, people are not as willing to take second bat with every company either matching or exceeding another company's quality until another company 1-up's it.

    Hyundai, does it ring a bell anyone?
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    The British mag Car has some of the rumored details and pictures(certainly not official) of the upcoming 5 series.

    Based on the pictures below it appears BMW's future will lack Bangle's influence and be substituted with blandest of bland styling. :lemon:

    This picture looks alot like the current e90 3 series:

    image

    And the rear-end of this 5 series looks a lot like a Hyundai Sonata:

    image

    The most interesting specs are the following:

    BMW hasn't forgotten about environmental initiatives, though. The diesel engines should get urea injection – as Mercedes is pioneering – to cut nitrogen oxide emissions. A stop/start system and upshift indicator for six-speed manual versions will help reduce fuel consumption, and the engines should be biofuel- and synfuel-compatible. Brake energy-regeneration, in combination with adaptive alternator control, should also save up to 10 percent more fuel too.

    Link below for more 2009 5 series specs:

    2009 5 Series
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    When I view the rear, a word that come to mind is Hyundai
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    I think the new 5 will have a more significant presence and stance than the pic infers. I find it easy on the eye, and in fact the front end looks clean and balanced to me with the air intake having a great appearane. The rear treatment, particularly due to the lights, is in line with current styling trends more typical to Japanese vehicles in general, not just Hyundai, but they look well-executed to me, and I find them pleasing enough, and a nice departure from the odd-shaped previous ones.

    All-in-all, this is an attractive new 5 series that should sell very well, and lend itself nicely to a good-looking M, IMO.

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    When I view the rear, a word that come to mind is Hyundai

    Given the car's good looks, I'd say that is a large compliment to Hyundai. ;)

    TagMan
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    The lines of this car are nothing short of elegant. The Bangle-styling of the current is still there, but only just by a hint.

    I particularly love the front end. But the rear-end is like a few cars I can name, it doesn't match/complement the front. I don't think BMW will leave that flat crease along the rear end. But then again.........
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Hp, Tagman and Hemi,

    ironically as other car makers are influenced by Bangle design (MB and Lexus), BMW is fleeing from its Bangle roots.

    I hear the word elegance for the new 5 series. I guess elegance and conservatism in this case can be used interchangeabeably.

    But then again these BMW pictures today are just as shocking as the rumors about a military coupe in Thailand.

    Maybe there is a coupe in Bavaria and Chris Bangle is in handcuffs under house arrest :confuse:
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    It sucks. That car will not be on my shopping list if that's the way it will look, ultimate driving machine be damned. Designmen don't want to be caught dead in something like that. After putting out the E92 3-series coupe and X5 they stumble back to that nonsense? How gauche. I am confident that will not be it... in my humble but passionate opinion, of course.

    ;-)
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    This is interesting that even we, on this forum, who regularly scrutinize cars, do not agree on this rumored vehicle.

    Immediately after Dewey posted the pics, HP criticized it (although edited his response), but I stood up for the design, as did blkhemi. Now D-man gives it a thumbs down, totally opposite of blkhemi and me.

    This just proves one thing . . . blkhemi and I have a better eye (lol). ;)

    But seriously, it sounds as though you are suggesting that this may not even be the real deal anyway.

    TagMan
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    As noted, this is just a rumored designed, not the real deal Holyfield.

    It is highly doubtful that they'll leave the car this way. Case and Point:

    When the spy shots came out on the new X5, I thought to myself, what the heck are they doing? They already have the 530xi Wagon, as that what it was looking like. Then the official picks from Bavaria came out, and all was well. And just yesterday, Merc posted a pic of the new interior. Ultra posh.

    So let's not get up in arms over something that may or may not be for real. As I stated, I highly doubt BMW will leave that rear-end that droopy with a Japanese styling treatment. Only the Jetta can get away with a vacation at Toyota's styling salon. And you see it's lost it's cult following...
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Check out this data:

    link title

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    So let's not get up in arms over something that may or may not be for real. As I stated, I highly doubt BMW will leave that rear-end that droopy with a Japanese styling treatment.

    Good point, but I still think the rumored car is decent . . . no, elegant. ;)

    TagMan
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    I have to agree with Dewey and D-man, that is a pretty homely BMW, if that is the future of it.

    Just like the old Chevy Tahoe to the 2007 Tahoe, they polished out all the aggression and style, and controversy, and went into a non-offensive mode that will endear it to no one.

    I am a HUGE fan of the "Bangled" 5, just not the standard iDrive in most models. The 550i would be perfect midsize sport sedan, but it has a heavy cross to bear!

    Let's fix that problem before we emasculate the thing, k?

    DrFill
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    BMW is attempting to fix the wrong part of this vehicle, IMO.

    Leave the inspired, gloriously sexy, animalistic, aerodynamically-styled for driving excitement masterpiece that is the Bangle 5 Series design alone and get rid of that ridiculous iDrive (you tune the radio) controller. If they must keep it, at least give us back a normal push button-tuning radio which can easily be switched from AM to FM without my having to have an advanced degree in computer science with the controller.

    It's too bad sales are way up thanks to Bangle's brave and bold design, and BMW misinterprets that as positive confirmation of the iDrive (you crazy).
    I fear they will never get rid of it.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Comparing the legendary Exploder/Tombstone Tire recall to Toyota's is like comparing the Titanic to the Staten Island Ferry!

    Having taken a check or two from Ford in my day, I can speak from experience that the Exploder problem was quite special. There were a few deaths, and permanent injuries attributed, plus the lawsuits that followed, plus, this was a largely American phenomenon. given the Exploder is a largely American-only product.

    If we should have learned nothing over the years of this forum, it is that Americans could give a darn about what happens in the 3rd-world, which constitutes anywhere Bush hopes to colonize, holiday, or wire-tap, sans warrant.

    The way things are going, this phone line has been totally compromised.

    The point is, if 'Yota has 800k recalls in China, we don't care.

    If no Americans died, it's not a story. Just fodder.

    Funny how Ford used to make news, now they just make fodder... :cry:

    DrFill
  • Regarding:
    The General: 13.9%
    Toyota: 12.3%
    Ford: 12.0%

    Yes folks, Toyota will beat Ford worldwide. They also said that that there will be a major shift towards Eastern Europe and China, areas that GM absolutely dominates. By 2010, if GM stays on it's steady pace and Toyota's output actually works, Toyota would become #1, reports suggests.


    I just double checked, for the first 6 months of 2006. GM sold 4.60 million cars and Toyota sold 4.36 million. GM sold 5.5% more, not the 13% advantage (13.9% vs. 12.3%) as blkhemi suggested.

    As of now, GM is indeed still No.1. But if the current trend continues, i.e. GM down 2.3% YOY(not counting the most recent announcements) and Toyota up 7.1% YOY, 2006 will be the last year that GM holds the title.

    For those who thinks GM sells far more than Toyota in Europe and China, please do not forget Japan itself is still world's No.2 auto nation. And in China, Toyota just introduced Corolla under 2 years and Camry under 1 year. Let see what happens in the next two. :shades:
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Hyundai will pull ahead of Toyota.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    This is interesting that even we, on this forum, who regularly scrutinize cars, do not agree on this rumored vehicle

    WHat if this 5 series became reality?

    Then I can almost guarantee you that BMW 5 series repeat sales will plummet. How do I know that? Because I dont think it is mere coincidence that three out of three 5 series owners(Designman, HP and myself) are the ones that hate these pictures the most. I think many current 5 series owners will hate these bland looking pictures just as much as we do.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    http://www.nbc13.com/money/7876154/detail.html

    Sounds like a 5-year plan to make it into the Top 3.

    Place your bets. ;)

    DrFill
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    WHat if this 5 series became reality?

    Then I can almost guarantee you that BMW 5 series repeat sales will plummet.


    You can't guarantee that. I said the same exact thing about the E60 5-series three years ago. I recall saying they would be giving them away at the end of the first model year. Never happened in spite of the dismay and schism it caused what with the online petition and everything.

    Let's not worry about this now because these photoillustrations we are seeing are NOT the next 5-series.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    This is not a question of if, but when. But to answer KB, that 13.9% is the projected finish for the '06 m/y, not mtm.

    And the General is down in the US for now, but worldwide their up 8.9% and with the new stuff with interest starting to roll off of the assmebly lines, they be back in shape faster than we thought.

    Yes Toyota has introduced the Corolla in China, but to little interest. All of the General's subs. are the kings there. particular China market only Buicks, which outpace their next in class comp. 4-1. Funny, until the Lucerne got here, it was vice versa in the home market.

    I may be the lone star, but I have much faith in this company. This is not the first time this companu has been in this much trouble, particulurly under the "Roger and Me" regime. They will pull through, especially judging from their new plan of action, which is apparently working as investors have let off some steam and GM's rating no longer being considered "junk" on the stocks...
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    I am dismayed that after coming out with such a bold design as the current 5 series, BMW would take such a giant step backward with a blatant rip-off of a tail-light design we have been seeing a bit too much of these days.
    This from the newly dubbed "Company of Ideas?"
    Sheesh! :(
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    >> (although edited his response)

    Ooh, that is TOO hard to let pass. :P

    I do believe many of us make liberal use of the Edit feature, wouldn't you agree, Tag, my friend? :)

    And I do the same. Sometimes you just can't get your thoughts expressed correctly until you see them posted one, two, six times.

    I'm working on using the Preview feature but keep forgetting... :P
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Thanks Pat for pointing out the editing feature.

    I must try it some time now that I realize it is not a crime to use it. ;)
  • pearlpearl Posts: 336
    that they ought to can both the I-drive and the Bangle design. While I am not blown away by the pics of the reported 09 model, I like that version much more than the current E60. I do agree with you that the I-drive needs to be relegated to the historical garbage dump. I am aware of absolutely NO praise for this system on any BMW vehicle over the past several years. BMW would be nuts to bring out a new 5 and not get rid of this constant source of complaints.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    I do believe many of us make liberal use of the Edit feature, wouldn't you agree, Tag, my friend?

    liberal? . . . Heck, I'd hard wire it, if it were possible. No one edits more than the TagMan! Well . . . maybe hpowders! ;)

    But, truly THANKS for pointing out the preview feature. I'll give it a try. Maybe it'll prevent such liberal use of the Edit feature.

    TagMan
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    I can live with the Bangle design more than I can the iDrive.
    It is way too complicated and believe it shows extreme arrogance on BMW's part not to listen to all the negative press and consumer complaints.

    I consider myself reasonably intelligent, (although I have been known to edit a post or two) and have given up switching between AM and FM stations. I just keep it on FM.

    When the auto mags and regular folk criticized Lexus for the electronic meddling, they listened and now provide an off switch.

    It would be nice if BMW would get off its high horse and listen to the folks, admit it made a mistake and provide a more user friendly system.
    And if they refuse to do that, at the very least they should move to make it an option across the entire line.
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