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High End Luxury Cars

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Comments

  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    I would like to interact with you on this topic but I am too busy editing my response to Pearl.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Let's not worry about this now because these photoillustrations we are seeing are NOT the next 5-series.

    That is music to my ears. Let us hope you are right.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    This from the newly dubbed "Company of Ideas?"

    I can live with that slogan as long as they introduce gorgeous cars like the new BMW 3 series coupe. IMO this car is the best looking coupe since the E34 635i . The current 6 series coupe has to be the most hideous looking coupe in BMW history. In fact it kind of looks like an overweight Toyota Solara.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    It would be nice if BMW would get off its high horse and listen to the folks, admit it made a mistake and provide a more user friendly system.
    And if they refuse to do that, at the very least they should move to make it an option across the entire line.


    Well, according to the article, the iDrive is supposed to be more user friendly. So, it would appear that the iDrive will be tamed right along with the styling.

    Oh, by the way, has anyone mentioned that the new styling looks sort of, well . . . elegant? ;)

    Uh oh, let's see now, do I need to use that edit button again? Ah yes, there we go . . . that's 3 edits already!

    TagMan
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    am a HUGE fan of the "Bangled" 5, just not the standard iDrive in most models. The 550i would be perfect midsize sport sedan, but it has a heavy cross to bear!

    Yes as Lexus styling becomes more agressive , the styling of BMWs is becoming somehat homely (or elegant as Tagman would say)
    Personally I can live with homely styling as long as this homeliness does not spread to BMW performance/handling specs.

    And yes I will confess that I like the new styling of the new LS a real lot.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Well it wouldn't hurt for BMW to refresh its rather dour interiors.
    It never has been a major priority with me, but after viewing those high resolution photos of the new MDX interior and then sitting in my 545, there is much room for improvement in the latter.

    As far as driveability is concerned, not to worry. BMW's will always be among the best.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    I agree about the new 3 Series Coupe. I have already written (in one take, no edit) that I believe the new 3 Series Coupe is the best-looking BMW. Too bad it can't hold my road bike.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    It never has been a major priority with me, but after viewing those high resolution photos of the new MDX interior and then sitting in my 545, there is much room for improvement in the latter.

    At least the wood in the BMW is real. I didn't realize that the new MDX, loaded with options (you can now do that with Acuras) hits $48K. There's absolutely no excuse for plastic at that level.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    "...There's absolutely no excuse for plastic at that level.."

    Yep, especially when just about every SUV in it's class at that price range as the real stuff, including the domestic top dog, SRX.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    So Ford Motors recently acquired the Rover brand name. You would think acquisitons would not be a priority today at Ford. Shouldn't Ford be focusing on pruning its brands than buying new brands (as if buying brands in the past did not do enough damage to Ford)

    Will Mazda use the name Rover for new luxury autos? Will Rover soon compete with Lexus, Acura ,Infiniti and various German marques?

    This may make a lot of sense if Ford did not own a large portion of Mazda. But unfortunately Ford does have a major ownership interest in Mazda.

    Ford already needs to use various Mazda platforms for its existing luxury marques. Using Mazda platforms to a new Rover division will simpily spread the Mazda platform far too thin among too many non-luxury/luxury vehicles.

    This will be like the repeat of the bad old days when platform sharing was overdone among Mercurys, Fords and Lincolns.

    IMO a Rover division of Mazda would be a new disaster for Ford. A disaster Ford cannot afford.

    link title
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Here is a blurb from the Wall Street Journal:

    Despite Toyota's expansion and rising earnings, the car maker has recently made a series of embarrassing recalls, which have tarnished its reputation for quality. Last year, it recalled 2.38 million vehicles in the all-important U.S. market, more than the 2.26 million it sold.

    Toyota recalled more autos than they sold? OUCH!!

    To help prevent such problems, Toyota said it expected to hire 8,000 engineers over the next four years. President Katsuaki Watanabe said that Toyota would spend more time in the development process of each product, conducting more up-front quality checks and delaying product launches if necessary.

    I can recall in the 1980s Ford made the same promises and used the slogan "Quality is Job Number One". In fact every single auto maker with quality problems have made the same kind of promises that Toyota is making now and despite their promises these troubled automakers have continued to incur major recalls.

    Will Toyota be different from other auto makers? If Toyota contines to try to build as many autos as they can in the shortest time possible then the answer is no. It is very hard to focus on quality when your top priority is to build things as fast as possible (that applies equally to auto manufacturing and every other human endeavor)
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    These words posted above are right in line with my prediction that Hyundai will overtake Toyota by January 2009 in the USA.
    The timing may be off a bit but the phenomenon is inevitable.

    Yes. Even BMW has decided to go with the Hyundai Sonata rear for its next generation 5 Series and they could have "borrowed" from anyone.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Yep, especially when just about every SUV in it's class at that price range as the real stuff, including the domestic top dog, SRX.

    The SRX does not sell well here at all. Have you checked the nat'l sales figures recently?

    TagMan
  • Toyota recalled more autos than they sold? OUCH!!

    Well, data is just data, meaningless without proper context.

    Toyota sells as much as Ford in the US (exceeds Ford globally in 2003). Toyota's recalls is only a fraction of that of Ford.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Yes. Even BMW has decided to go with the Hyundai Sonata rear for its next generation 5 Series and they could have "borrowed" from anyone.

    Maybe the photo illustrator of those 09 5 series pictures was Korean?
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Ford recalls were over 2 million this past year? Really?

    But you are going a step further and saying Toyota recalls are a fraction of Ford recalls. If that is so then Ford recalls must be 4 million or above. I dont think so?

    And even if that is the case Toyota has far stronger recall momentum than sales momenutum. Quality and Toyota are synonyms. If this recall momentum continues then Quality and Toyota will become antonyms.
  • Regarding: Yes Toyota has introduced the Corolla in China, but to little interest. All of the General's subs. are the kings there. particular China market only Buicks, which outpace their next in class comp. 4-1. Funny, until the Lucerne got here, it was vice versa in the home market.

    GM sales far exceeds Toyota in China because they started doing business at least 5 years earlier.

    As I mentioned, Camry was introduced to China just under 1 year. The sales number are not amazing because the plant just started and not to full capacity. I personally know people from China that Camry is now selling 10% more than MSRP there.
  • But you are going a step further and saying Toyota recalls are a fraction of Ford recalls. If that is so then Ford recalls must be 4 million or above. I dont think so?

    The source I viewed stated that Ford recalled about 10 million. If you are not too short-memoried you should remember the 1 million recall at a single time (for truck) just a couple months back.

    Remember, recall is not just for the new cars. It dates back as far as 10 years. Although Toyota's quality slipped recently, the earlier Toyotas (i.e. 1995-2004) are still far more reliable than Fords of the same year. Thus causing the total Ford recall far exceeds Toyota recalls.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Where on earth are you getting those figures?
    Do these figures include the Ford Pinto, Torino and Mercury Capri?
  • I just viewed somewhere on the Internet. If you want to confirm. Why not google a bit. As for the one-batch 1 million truck recall, that's from CNN.

    I suppose that number include everything made by Ford, if they cared to recall a Pinto as of now.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    A recall, while sometimes major, is often voluntary and preventative on the part of the manufacturer to make sure that a discovered potential problem or defect is fixed BEFORE it poses a danger or becomes significantly worse.

    When a vehicle problem is already known, but the manufacturer waits until a statistically significant number of people are killed before deciding to (or being forced to) recall vehicles . . . well this is dead wrong (excuse the pun) and borders criminal, IMO.

    However, early discovery and recall of a potential problem deserves positive recognition and praise, IMO.

    Regardless, and independent of recalls, the reliability of Toyota is still unsurpassed, certainly well above Ford and many others.

    Toyota proves that even with recalls, if handled correctly, a manufacturer can still build reliable vehicles.

    TagMan
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    Tag, I didn't mean "top dog" in terms of sales. None of the domestics are overacheivers. But in terms of all out luxury, the SRX is what Caddy should've been all this time. You won't mistake it for an RX or Range Rover, but it is better in some respects than many of it's competitors.

    I still can't believe that it makes C&D's Top 5 trucks all the time.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    What this only proves is that, yes, even the quality king has problems. Did anyone ever expect Dell to be in the shape it's in, the all-out king of computers? No.

    Toyota has problems. Just like the General. Just like Ford. Even like it's homeland competitor Mitsu.

    May it be corruption, scandal, or plain lack of useability/attention of the brand, they all have their problems.

    But Toyota's problem is unique in that it can have an X amount of recalls but their sales never waver. Sure it makes headline news, particularly here in the States. But is it a deal breaker for someone looking at that sporty Camry SE V-6? Absolutely not.

    OTOH, when it comes to "world domination", it's easier said than done. It's pure economic sense. GM has stables in 6 continents and 96 countries. Toyota is really a start up company in East Europe and next-door-neighbor, China. Almost obsolete in the Land Down Under. So it's gonna take more than "we're Toyota" to have the king's crown. It can be done, but not this decade.....
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    OTOH, when it comes to "world domination", it's easier said than done.

    I just wanted to make it clear, given the way the posts were going, that there is a distinct difference between recalls and reliability.

    "World domination" doesn't happen overnight. But, Toyota certainly is on a track that could get them there.

    There are other factors at play here, as well. Particularly regarding the energy scenario. GM has recently patented some of its hydrogen fuel engineering, and while I don't think it will necessarily hurt Toyota, I do think that it represents that the automobile industry is in such a massive and unprecedented transition, and that there will be major rewards for innovation when the dust settles . . . and GM certainly has the potential to be innovative.

    TagMan
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,870
    Yep, looks like our love affair is over. The California Attorney General filed suit today against the top 6 auto makers alledging billions of dollars of damage to the CA environment because of green house gas emissions.

    Extorting billions from tobacco wasn't enough for these crooks. Their quest for deep pockets continues. Gimme a break!

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • Regarding: What this only proves is that, yes, even the quality king has problems. Did anyone ever expect Dell to be in the shape it's in, the all-out king of computers? No.
    Toyota has problems. Just like the General. Just like Ford. Even like it's homeland competitor Mitsu.


    Having more recalls is not the same as having poor quality.

    As of now, the JD-Power and Consumer Report's evaluation of Toyota cars are still top-notch. We can start the doomsaying for Toyota, after CR finds any significant change.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    You may want to re-read your JDP report. No Toyota is not at the top, it's that brand that only a short 10 years ago was the laughing stock in the auto world, and that brand is Hyundai.

    BTW: CR is for losers....
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    As usual, very well put. Understood and agreed.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Where on earth are you getting those figures?
    Do these figures include the Ford Pinto, Torino and Mercury Capri?


    The figures are very real. From Detroit news:

    The Dearborn automaker has recalled 6.7 million vehicles worldwide since January 2005 that are equipped with a Texas Instruments speed control deactivation switch that has been linked to dozens of engine fires and has sparked numerous lawsuits.

    If the combined total of 6.7 million vehicles called back -- including 5.8 million in the United States -- were a single recall, it would be the fourth-largest ever, behind a 1996 Ford recall of 7.9 million vehicles for ignition switches and two by General Motors Corp., according to NHTSA data.

    Full link here

    Toyota has a long way to go before they can match the domestics for "recall all-stars".
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    You may want to re-read your JDP report. No Toyota is not at the top, it's that brand that only a short 10 years ago was the laughing stock in the auto world, and that brand is Hyundai.

    Well, I've predicted before that lexicans would be defending their favorite brand from koreancarfans in 10 years or so.

    On the other hand, as regards JDP, most people consider the VDS more important than IQS.

    VDS rankings 2006

    IQS rankings 2006
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