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High End Luxury Cars

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Comments

  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Merc you’re right, it did lose something from the concept. And in the shots you posted it doesn’t look as lustrous as in the Lexus site. It now seems to complete the IS GS sausage link. Something happened to that front end. I guess I'll pull out the concept shots and look into it in more detail some other time.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I've been looking at pics of the LS from sites all over the web and it does seem to look better in some pics than others, but overall it didn't keep the promise of the concept IMO. I remain impressed with the technical details though. The way they incorporated the direct-injection system from the IS350's V6 into the 4.6L V8 is most impressive. I suspect this is the deciding factor for the projected MPG numbers.

    M
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    Come on you Lexus guys this your baby in the flesh! Where is the enthusiasm?

    I think I said this before when the LF-Sh appeared...speaking for myself only, I think the exterior styling is an improvement over the current car, but I'm not sure I prefer it to the 2006 S. Need to see both in person.

    The engine stats and mpg are very impressive so I guess I'm enthusiastic about those, but any hp number that starts with a 3 is more than enough so it isn't that big a deal to me.

    They still haven't provided that much detail on some aspects of the car, plus I would need to see it and test drive it before becoming more "enthusiastic". As a hopefully open-minded (Lexus-leaning but not Lexus-rabid) person, I'm not automatically going to assume the LS460 is the greatest thing ever.
  • sv7887sv7887 Posts: 351
    Hi Everyone,
    I'm not all that impressed with the LS460. Lexus PR would have you believe this was the second coming of 1989...It is a nice car, but hardly on par with the original LS400. The original has a flair that this car doesn't. To this day I still get compliments about my 92 LS400..This car is rather conservately styled. The new S Class at least makes a statement. I do find the interior styling of the LS460 of standard Lexus fare. (It was already quite good to begin with) Any AWD option? I haven't read anything about that yet..

    However, all that technology is pretty cool. But I'll definitely shop the S Class against it when I trade mine in late next year.

    SV
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    There is no mention of AWD yet. I imagine the hybrid will be awd, but it is not at all clear if the ICE versions will have an awd option.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    In my opinion, looking at the LS460L, rolls royce phantom and maybach better be prepared as the LS has all what they have and even more. In a direct comparison LS will handily beat phantom and maybach be it refinement, luxury, technology, craftsmanship, quiteness etc.

    Calling all potential Maybach and Rolls Buyers! Dont buy a Maybach or RR. Wait a bit longer for the best car on earth called the new Lexus LS and save your money for a box of vintage 1936 Burgundy wine that is renowned for its poignant berry aroma and its subtle sour apple aftertaste.

    Whoever said posts had to factual?
  • scott1256scott1256 Posts: 531
    I too believe the $15-20,000 price advantage draws a lot of buyers to Lexus.

    MB/BMW/Audi/Jaguar have individuality and a better driving experience. However, the value equation is clearly tilted in favor of the LS.

    The LWB version of the LS will boost sales. At last the LS will offer comfortable back seat room for passengers that are 6' plus.
  • brightness04brightness04 Posts: 3,151
    I see, still spinning with that MSRP nonsense. Earth to Mitsubishi1, MSRP has little bearing on true acquisition cost for Mercedes nowadays with all the discount going on. It's about as absurd as calling Maybach a $350k car when there is a $100k discount, and it's cross-shopped with a $170k Bentley by every would-be acquirer. MSRP is only relevent to the scribe who has no snow ball's chance in frozen you-know-where actually acquiring the car; anyone who actually spends that kind of money is quite good at maximiizing their money's worth.
  • brightness04brightness04 Posts: 3,151
    I too believe the $15-20,000 price advantage draws a lot of buyers to Lexus.

    The price difference has long been eliminated by MB subsidized lease offers and other discounts.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    ". As a hopefully open-minded (Lexus-leaning but not Lexus-rabid) person, I'm not automatically going to assume the LS460 is the greatest thing ever.

    I must give you credit, very smart you are. My teeth were drawn and I now have no where to bite! ;)

    Just for that I'll try my best to wring some details out of a Lexus person if they're around next weekend. One thing I like about GM and Ford they have actual engineers on the floor at time, not salespeople or company "reps", but honest to goodness white-coat wearing engineers.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I too believe the $15-20,000 price advantage draws a lot of buyers to Lexus.

    Please don't mention anything factual like that because all you'll get is a bunch of garble about leases. Don't you know that buyers who finance and/or pay with cash don't exist anymore?

    M
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Some of you need to understand that posts which have no other purpose than to beat someone else over the head are pointless, do not get your message across to anyone, and further, are not appropriate and will not be acceptable going forward.

    If you cannot discuss the ins and outs, ups and downs, plusses and minuses of the cars and the marques without stomping all over someone else, you need to not post at all.

    Chill out and get back to the productive and interesting discussion that you are all capable of and all deserve, please.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I see, still spinning with that MSRP nonsense. Earth to Mitsubishi1, MSRP has little bearing on true acquisition cost for Mercedes nowadays with all the discount going on. It's about as absurd as calling Maybach a $350k car when there is a $100k discount, and it's cross-shopped with a $170k Bentley by every would-be acquirer. MSRP is only relevent to the scribe who has no snow ball's chance in frozen you-know-where actually acquiring the car; anyone who actually spends that kind of money is quite good at maximiizing their money's worth

    A new S-Class isn't going to sell with a discount and even if it did it isn't going to sell at a discount big enough to put in the same price range as a Lexus LS. For the record I'm talking about the 2007 model not the out-going 6 year old 2006 model.

    The Maybach isn't meeting its sales targets and is a new segment and brand for that matter so a dealer advertising such a discount on a car is to be expected.

    The S-Class is a proven product. You aren't going to see any such large discounts (if any at all for the first year at least) on the brand new S-Class. Period.

    M
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    I have had to remove a couple of posts with very wide pictures in them and have emailed the posters a version of what I'm about to post here. It's something you all need to know, so I'm saying it to everyone.

    I need to ask you not to post pictures that are wider than about 500 pixels. A picture too wide pushes the text out under the right sidebar making the first few messages on the page impossible to read. Very wide pictures can make the page have to be scrolled from left to right for folks to read every single line on the page that the picture appears.

    You need to either edit the pictures to the correct width (as I mentioned, no more than 500 pixels) or just post a link to the pictures instead of actually displaying them.

    Also, when you do post links, depending on their length, they can mess up the display in the same manner. To keep that from happening, you should use the URL button under the post box.

    For that, all you have do is click the button, paste in the URL, type a name for your link over the words "link title" and click the button again.

    If you have questions about any of this, just drop me an email. Thanks for your cooperation.
  • brightness04brightness04 Posts: 3,151
    A new S-Class isn't going to sell with a discount and even if it did it isn't going to sell at a discount big enough to put in the same price range as a Lexus LS. For the record I'm talking about the 2007 model not the out-going 6 year old 2006 model.

    1. By the looks of the new LS, the new S-class is obsolete on arrival;

    2. We do not even know how much the new LS will cost, so there is no basis to your claim regarding whether they will sell in the same price range at all. IMHO, those who think new LS will have an MSRP under $60k are dreaming, unfortunately (as much as I would like to share that dream myself).
  • scott1256scott1256 Posts: 531
    Saying that the new S class is 'obsolete' seems a little extreme. I believe the new LS will offer the S class real competition now that an LWB version available.

    I maintain that for LS/S/7/A8/XJ buyers saving $15-20,000 is a big consideration.

    Fewer cars in this price range are leased relative to entry level luxury cars.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,662
    Merc1 - you have to realize many - over 60% of these cars and I'll bet closer to 75% are leased. In my area I asked my salesman on the percentages when I redid my GX 470 a month ago. He worked for Ray Catena (both Lexus and MB and has a brother that is still working at Ray's MB dealership) for 15+ years and he told me that the average is 65% Lexus and 75% for MB across the board. Admittedly just a sample of 1 dealer but the biggest one for both MB and Lexus in NJ. I'll bet the S and LS are higher than those averages given the higher pricepoints of both. So the leasing prices are a much bigger part of the deal then you seem to realize. You may be a big fan here but some of us have shopped these cars and prices stay with us. In 2001 there was barely a price difference between an $83K S-500 and a $71K LS430 ultra. The S was in the $1425 range and the LS was in the $1375 range. At those level the S was the bigger bargain given its MSRP yet the supply of the LS ultra ran out - so that type of price was no hindrance to sales. I know and remember it well as I got lease quotes on both and was told I'd have to wait 6 months for an ultra if I really wanted it. Difference in the lease prices was tied to MB using a way overdone 68% residual vs a 58% residual used by Lexus on the LS430. These are the leasing subsidiaies Brightness talks about and he's right on the money. In fact the cars were exact opposites in retention value 3 years later with the LS holding in at 63% and the S at less than 55%. You can keep trumping MSRP but it's about as meaningful as the Prime rate is to a Fortune 50 business borrower - for most buyers. In my opinion you have to be nuts to buy an S-class vis a vis the lease deals that are out there.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Well it certainly doesnt appear that BMW considers Lexus as a serious competitior. Kudos for Infiniti for at least being noticed in Munich.

    From the today's Wall Street Journal:

    BMW spokesman Robert Mitchell says the German car maker sees more competition from Nissan Motor Co.'s Infiniti and Volkswagen AG's Audi, which have long offered sporty, youthful cars. "Lexus has their work cut out for itself if it's going to try to convince BMW owners to look at something else," Mr. Mitchell says.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,662
    "Fewer cars in this price range are leased relative to entry level luxury cars"

    Couldn't possibly disagree with you more. I'd estimate that 75-85% are leased.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Which one is the Lexus LS and which one is the BMW 7 series? You've got to be an auto enthusiast or someone with hawk-eyed vision in order to tell the difference. If Lexus believes that competing with BMW is merely a visual styling matter, then Lexus is bang on!

    Fortunately there is more to a BMW then its Bangle looks.

    image
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