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High End Luxury Cars

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  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Yes, it definitely went over one head. I kinda thought the "Relox" watch woulda done it.

    I think I'll go out there and see if Jack Nicholas will do me the honor of allowing me to play with him today. He should agree if I give him 16 strokes! Heh! Heh!

    Ya gotta love it!! ;)
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    "When I drive the LS next month, I should have some idea of how fast it accelerates. Mine is about 5.5, pretty much the same. "

    Can you really tell the difference between 5.5 and 6.0?
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Absolutely. With 5.5, your head snaps back. With 6.0, it doesn't.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    I took your Jack Nicholas joke "hook, line, and sinker!"

    Man, you got me!!!!!!

    :D :D

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Absolutely. With 5.5, your head snaps back. With 6.0, it doesn't.

    Neck-snapping REALLY depends upon first gear . . . and how quick it jumps out of the gate.

    With LS460's very low first two gears, there could very well be some neck-snapping out of the gate, but the question would be if third gear and beyond keep it moving fast enough to achieve that 5.4 time.

    Either way, at least you'll get a strong sense of its acceleration, even if you can't put a definate number on it.

    TagMan
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Great post Tagman.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Great read!

    That part about Toyota sending people to BMW factories to look at their production techniques isn't going to be accepted by some of the Toyota/Lexus faithful.


    Yeah, terrific article indeed. One of the best highlights of BMW to come along in a long time.

    And for those that still do not beleive that Lexus has BMW in it's sights, this should help convince them, as BMW's Reithofer says it himself.

    Toyota's Lexus also has BMW in its sights as it makes a move to gain in Europe with sportier, better-handling cars. "We will be challenged -- no question," says Reithofer. "We have to take Lexus seriously."

    Glad you enjoyed it!

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Great post Tagman.

    Hey, Dewey, I knew you'd be one to enjoy it. Glad you did.

    TagMan
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    I read in Autoweek that Audi, VW and BMW agreed to use MB's Blutec system in order to accomplish selling cars that can pass tough emissions standards like that in California.

    Expect a Blutec VW Tiguan, BMW X5, Audi Q7 and Q5, Jeep Cherokees and ofcourse MB R, M and GL Classes.

    In my case I am disappointed since I expected to get confirmed news about diesel cars and not only SUVs.

    An interesting challenger to Blutec will be Honda's diesel system which is not bogged down with Blutec's urea bladder.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    My mission at the Lexus Taste arranged in descending order of importance after a 4 hour drive will be:
    restroom, wine, pate, restroom, acceleration, braking, cornering, Maalox, restroom, drive home.
    It's always good to have a plan
    .

    Good luck with your mission. I hope you accomplish at least some of those things ;)
  • reality2reality2 Posts: 303
    Actually, Audi does very well in automotive reviews against all its competitors. So, it is not about whether one make or another is preferred, but whether the reporting is genuine or factual. Many times there is a preconceived bias by automotive journalists just like all of us. It makes for entertaining reading, but not serious journalism. Yes, at the end of day it is about the buyer speaking so Audi has reported is best September in history across the board. So many buyers are speaking. Also, the 7-Series has yet to touch the A8L in majority of reviews. So, if you go by that logic, then why would anyone buy something inferior (a 7-Series) to something superior (an A8L) if the reviews state so over and over , yet choose the inferior product?
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    An interesting challenger to Blutec will be Honda's diesel system which is not bogged down with Blutec's urea bladder.

    Yes, they have an improved catalytic system, I believe, and the engine is suitable for all 50 states.

    blkhemi posted (#19547) this statement on Oct 5th, but I have not been able to find any news to back it up.

    MB just announced that they had good reason on holding off on the urea tank for the Bluetec, they've found a way to get the clean stuff without it.

    Hopefully he will read this and give us the source so we can see if his interpretation of the news is correct, and if this applies to all 50 states. If so, that would be great.

    TagMan
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Neck-snapping REALLY depends upon first gear . . . and how quick it jumps out of the gate.

    Very true. My XKR is capable of 0-60 in 5.5, but its definitely not head snapping. Because of the gearing, its practically impossible to get the XKR to spin its wheels. Power comes on in a huge rush after about 20mph. A clutch drop launch in a 6.0 or even 6.5 second car could produce more of an effect.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    It sure wasn't easy finessing one past you!

    However, you were only guilty of bad pasting.
    Good excuse! :)
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    It makes for entertaining reading, but not serious journalism.

    So according to you we cannot take these positive A8L reviews seriously ;)

    It is not a hard thing to do for the A8L to do better in reveiws than the 7 series especially when the 7 series is close to the tail end of its product cycle and soon will be replaced by a new generation model that will put the A8L in its place.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    And for those that still do not beleive that Lexus has BMW in it's sights, this should help convince them, as BMW's Reithofer says it himself.

    Toyota's Lexus also has BMW in its sights as it makes a move to gain in Europe with sportier, better-handling cars. "We will be challenged -- no question," says Reithofer. "We have to take Lexus seriously."


    Tagman,

    Reithofer was certainly not referring to a Lexus threat in terms of performance or handling. The Lexus IS, GS, LS and their SUVs are not able to out-handle or outperform BMW 3 , 5, 7 series and X5/X3 SUVs.

    What I believe he is refering to is the following:

    Vögel says the next generation of BMW 5 Series and 7 Series sedans will be the most Net-savvy cars on the road.

    Who in this forum is impressed with BMW electronics like idrive? Nobody I presume! And who in this forum honestly believes that BMWs will be more Net-Savvy than Lexuses? Nobody?

    In terms of electronic gadgetry I think Toyota will be able to out-spend and out-innovate BMW with no problem. It is in electronics that BMW is threatened by Lexus and I believe that BMW is trying a bit too hard with these endeavors. Their focus should be on cars that make driving enjoyable and certainly not cars that are equipped with the contents of a Best Buy Store.

    an onboard computer that will recognize you, then seek out information you want and entertainment you love.

    I dont know about you but would you like a HAL-type computer in your car that practically knows what music you want to hear right here and now without even pushing a button or saying anything? I certainly dont! And what if the computer malfunctions and plays Eminem instead of a Schubert Violin Concerto? D-I-S-A-S-T-E-R!

    I just want a car that performs and handles well. If I want a mind reader I can just go to my local psychic.
  • reality2reality2 Posts: 303
    No that is not what I said. I said that reviews are opinions and that is it. Whether it goes all one way does say good things about a specific model, but in the long run each person must make up their own mind. In other words, we should not be swayed by automotive magazines as some do.

    As for the 7-Series putting the A8L in its "place", is very unlikely to occur. The A8 has surpassed the 7-Series for good as has every other HELM. There is no way BMW is better than Audi in any respect these days as both are very equally matched with each doing certain things better than the other. This is more of brand cultural values in terms what each brand perceives is important to it.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    This is more of brand cultural values in terms what each brand perceives is important to it.

    Fair enough! Both marques have their different strengths which attracts different types of buyers. Both have their inferiorities and superiorities.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    There was a super strong condemnation of iDrive in the latest issue of C&D ending with, "Are you listening, Munich?"

    In fact the frustratingly complex iDrive resulted in the 550i losing by 1 point to the winning M45 Sport in its latest "upscale sedans" comparo.

    The Lexus 450h came in dead last in an absolutely scathing review-nothing good was said about this vehicle.

    They didn't like the MB E550 much either.

    I will take another long hard look at the Infiniti next year.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Reithofer was certainly not referring to a Lexus threat in terms of performance or handling. The Lexus IS, GS, LS and their SUVs are not able to out-handle or outperform BMW 3 , 5, 7 series and X5/X3 SUVs.

    I agree that BMWs outhandle Lexus vehicles across the board. But, Reithofer's words were exactly as follows:

    Toyota's Lexus also has BMW in its sights as it makes a move to gain in Europe with sportier, better-handling cars. "We will be challenged -- no question," says Reithofer. "We have to take Lexus seriously."

    His words regarding Lexus were "sportier better-handling cars". In my opinion, he was referring to performance. That's what "better-handling" is about, as I understand it.

    In other words, Lexus vehicles aren't "better-handling" than BMWs, they are "better-handling" than previous Lexus vehicles . . . which he further explains makes them something to be aware of.

    TagMan
  • anthonypanthonyp Posts: 1,857
    Although I am looking forward to your review of the lexus, and knowing how you feel about the bmw, I really can`t imagine you falling for the M45....Just a different culture.. Tony
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    That statement actually came from the top man himself(Doc Z) on Detroit Autoline on Speed the other day. I didn't really think that MB was actually going to let anyone pass them on this technology.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    other words, Lexus vehicles aren't "better-handling" than BMWs, they are "better-handling" than previous Lexus vehicles . . . which he further explains makes them something to be aware of.

    Good interpretation!

    If Lexus will produce a car that can serious handle and perform like a BMW I would be a very happy camper!
    I am hoping that my next car will not be a BMW. Not that I dislike BMWs but I do like novelty and change when I buy new cars.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    Please tell me that you were just nipping at Tag when you said the A8 will take the BMW's place.

    The A8 is still built with the most technology available in it's class. And not just i-Drive.......
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    The Lexus 450h came in dead last in an absolutely scathing review-nothing good was said about this vehicle.

    Yeah the last thing the GS needs is more weight and a lifeless transmission to go along with its lifeless steering. The GS350 with its hydraulic rack is a much smarter choice than the 450h. Its essentially just as fast, with similar mpg.

    Next year's Infiniti will be the same as this year's Infiniti. It will be refreshed for the '09 MY, which should mean a change to white gauges, more power for the V6 and possibly a displacement bump for the V8, and an updated interior.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Based on that Businessweek article I think Munich has not a clue ?

    While you sleep, your BMW will scour the Net -- via Wi-Fi and other connections -- collecting, say, 15 minutes of new jazz followed by a 10-minute podcast on the energy industry. It may sound far-fetched, but

    Is BMW trying to out-search Google? Are they trying to out-Pod Apple?

    BMW appears to be going a bit off tangent. Geographically Munich is not Silicon Valley. Industry-wise BMW is in the auto industry and not in the Silicon Valley industry of high-tech :confuse:
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    You are probably correct, my friend.

    I did drive the M45 last year and at that time I was not impressed. The car felt heavy compared to the 545, the engine had a roar to it that would prove annoying over time, the steering felt a little phony and I couldn't find a comfortable fit for my left foot. I also didn't care for the wood-looked too thin-almost see-through. That center stack looked kind of weird too. Also the rear tail lights at night make the vehicle look like a pimp mobile. It's more of a younger person's car-35-45 years old max. I wouldn't feel comfortable with the styling. And the gas mileage is SUV-like.
    However, the brakes were terrific-better than the BMW's.
    Needless to say, all criticisms of the M45 were absent regarding the 545, a true masterpiece, seriously flawed only by the iDrive.

    But the M45 keeps winning the comparos, so I will grudgingly take another look next year.

    Looking forward to driving the LS and seeing for myself if any of the criticism I have read are valid. Would like to spend a lot of time with the LS. Perhaps they will let me drive it twice, if it's not too busy, and I tell them I came from far away. (If they read some of my previous posts, they may think that may be a different galaxy!)

    May bypass the GS450h. C&D absolutely tore this vehicle apart in its latest issue. Pretty much what I felt about the GS 430. ( but not the GS 300, which I liked. )
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    There has been such a snowballing of criticism regarding the iDrive.
    Since sales of the 5 Series have been up big time, BMW doesn't have to listen to the uproar.
    If sales slowed down to a crawl, they would listen real well.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Please tell me that you were just nipping at Tag when you said the A8 will take the BMW's place
    The A8 is still built with the most technology available in it's class. And not just i-Drive


    I honestly dont know what it will be? Whichever car provides the best "drive" and not neccessarily the best idrive or mmi system?
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Regarding the GS 450h, C & D couldn't stand the constant clatter as the car noisly switched between gas and electric modes-what C & D refers to as a "sonorous racket"-in addition to the usual suspects-the brakes, the steering, the lack of sportiness. What C & D refers to as "Dismal Dynamics."
    Add the practically useless 8 cu ft. trunk to this horrid mix, and I see this vehicle being withdrawn faster than you can say "Accord Hybrid."

    This was as bad a review as I have ever seen on a vehicle from an upscale manufacturer.

    Let's stop all this hybrid foolishness and bring on the cleaner diesel vehicles to market as quickly as possible.
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