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High End Luxury Cars

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  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,874
    As I said before, thankfully, there are so few of you that it just doesn't matter. Not a blip.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,874
    That is not my opinion, it was stated in the article that Dewey was bragging about and cherry picking facts from. Might help if you would take the time to read it. Being informed makes for more interesting posts.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    I'll wait for acceleration tests from all the magazines, unlike yourself. A pre-production car's 0-60 mean little, as do one magazine's test numbers! Besides, Motor Trend usually gets the quickest times to begin with. Next up, 5.5 or 6 seconds is soo hard to differentiate from the seat of the pants experience, that the .5 second difference is really insignificant.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Looking forward to the LS braking and acceleration findings from Road & Track and Motor Trend. Hopefully, the C & D data were due to testing a pre-production model.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    acceleration numbers are going to vary greatly anyway, Motor Trend might get 5.2, R&T might get 6.2, and C&D might get 5.5 with a actual test vehicle. Numbers are all over the place for every car model on this planet.

    I don't see braking numbers improving all that much with a production model, except with a sport model with the stickier tires, which should move braking numbers closer to what the old LS430 did and it's competitors.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Audi wants to raise its image by raising its prices in the luxury market. Based on the information linked below it appears Audi wants to increase their prices by using marketing that has little substance:

    To improve its image, Audi is considering showcasing its cars in more product placements like it did in the science fiction movie "I, Robot."

    Does Audi honestly think that Product placements in movies like iRobot are going to make Audis more desirable?

    the Spring, it also held "lifestyle" events that offered test drives and featured partners such as exotic travel company Abercrombie & Kent, upscale stereo maker Bang & Olufsen, and motorcycle maker Ducati.

    Does Audi honestly think that lifestyle events with exotic travel companies, Ducati and Bang and Olufson is going to make their cars more desirable?

    De Nysschen and other Audi executives were in New York for the opening of an Audi Forum - a 6,400-square foot showroom on Manhattan's well-heeled Park Avenue, which de Nysschen said is one of Audi's efforts to improve its brand image.
    The showroom, which features an 8-foot by 6-foot high-definition video screen that meanders along the ceiling, can display up to five cars and offers passersby the opportunity to learn more about the brand.


    Does Audi honestly think that gradoise and ostenatatious showrooms will increase the desirability of owning a Audi?

    The desirability of Audis are dependent on their product-line It appears their marketing is focused on everything but their product-lines. IMO this new Bling approach of Audi is doomed to fail!

    SOURCE: AUDI
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    And I want to buy a Lexus because I saw one in Minority Report.

    Just kidding. But Minority Report was a better movie, imo.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Of course the best thing to do is ignore all the reviews and drive the car yourself. This is especially true with the LS, given that the auto mags have such a performance bias.

    That is why I will be at the Lexus Taste next month, fully aware that the new LS is geared more toward comfort than performance.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Just don't ask either of us to change the radio from AM to FM. What do you think we are, Nobel Prize winners?

    Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the shortest route requires four clicks which includes two types of clicks. Very annoying.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    It requires 3 manipulations of iDrive just to get to AM (2 clicks and a twist) assuming one has the radio already set to FM.

    If you don't travel much, you can input your presets at home and forget about it, except that changing from FM to AM is a chore.
    I leave my radio on FM all the time and use the steering wheel switches for volume and station changing since my presets are in iDrive.

    If you travel outside your area a lot and want to listen to the radio and hunt for stations, this had better be done when you stop for gas. You can get killed trying to find a radio station with the iDrive when driving.

    I drove about 500 miles several weeks ago and whatever station came up, that's what I listened to.
    Thanks to iDrive, I now have a passion for salsa music!
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Does Audi honestly think that Product placements in movies like iRobot are going to make Audis more desirable?

    Oh yes, it works! James Bond movies alone were responsible for tremendous recognition of vehicles, even BMW roadsters, among MANY others.

    TagMan
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,851
    A reporter from a large daily newspaper is looking to speak to Mercedes-Benz owners in the Washington DC area about the expectations you have with the car when you purchase it and any problems you’ve had to deal with. Please provide your daytime contact info to ctalati@edmunds.com no later than Monday, October 16, 2006.

    MODERATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Aston Martins were renowned cars before James Bond started driving them and the BMW Z3 was not exactly a BMW success story even with Bronsan behind the steering wheel.

    And who is more popular than James Bond today? Tiger Woods. And have you noticed booming Buick sales because of Tiger Woods? Nope.

    I just find this idea of Audi charging higher prices based on image like prodcut placements, ritzy events and marble masoleum-like showrooms as nothing more than a dumbed down way of doing business.

    Back in the 80s MB sales boomed. I remember reading an interview with a MB executive and he bluntly stated that MB US sales boomed ever since JR Ewing in the Dallas Show began driving an MB SL.

    Such product placement may be good for sales to gullible fools and for the auto manufacturer itself but personally I prefer a car company that is more product-obsessed than image-obsessed.
  • dhamiltondhamilton Posts: 873
    I feel it's a good idea to increase awareness while continuing to build better and better cars. Audi needs to be on the minds of more people. I don't believe for a second that this means Audi is going to stop their brilliant drive in engineering.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Well, Dewey, hats off to the intelligence of the American public.

    Nobody out there believes mega-millionaire Tiger Woods with his mega million dollar yacht would rather have a Buick.

    The guy should be a spokesperson for the new distinguished Strategic Vision award winner, (something I have been previously too modest to talk about :blush: ) BMW.
    His refreshingly zesty, aggressive, powerful playing style perfectly meshes with the handsome, bold Chris Bangle styling and smooth powerful handling of BMW vehicles. At least as a BMW spokesperson, Tiger would be believable.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    That whole thing is well, just an idea. There is no way Winterkorn is going to allow Audi to outprice itself. The new TT actually starts 1100 bucks less than the previous model, conversely, packing more standard features on entirely new platform

    And even if they "raised" the price a bit, in no doubt, the A6 will remain the world's best selling luxury sedan(yes this includes the US for those who thinks the US is the only market that counts).

    So, by chance, what was this supposed to prove??!??!??
  • reality2reality2 Posts: 303
    Actually, the strategy is quite good and every premium automotive manufacturer uses one form of lifestyle advertising or another. Your comments are highly bias as you are a BMW type, so one takes your comments with less objectivity. Furthermore, Audi builds cars well deserving of their price point and Tier 1 status. Ask anyone in the world, other than some unenlightened Americans. Furthering their marketing aim is noble and proper in terms of business. The desirability of Audi globally is quite high and its product line is in many ways superior to your precious BMW. Your point is only to bash Audi. This forum is meant to discuss HELMs, not put them down for personal bias. As for Audi's product-line, it is one the highest, desirable, technologically driven, and quality premium vehicles out there along with anyone in this group.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Such product placement may be good for sales to gullible fools and for the auto manufacturer itself but personally I prefer a car company that is more product-obsessed than image-obsessed.

    So, you are inferring that Audi is not product-obsessed, because they have taken some steps to increase their exposure? It's just fundamental marketing techniques.

    But let me tell you clearly that your assertion that Audi is not product-obsessed because they are paying attention to their image is quite incorrect, IMO.

    Audi has a tremendous product awareness, and they prove this with some of the highest levels of attention to detail in the industry.

    We often agree, but so sorry to hugely disagree with you on this one.

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    I have been previously too modest to talk about BMW.

    Yeah, I've noticed this. You never seem to have much to say about the marque. You are so quiet and reserved.

    If only we could get you to come out of your shell, be less shy about your posting, and begin to say some things about BMW.

    It must have been hard, posting here for all these years, but never saying anything about BMW. I don't know how you ever did it . . . holding back like that!

    L M A O

    TagMan
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Well I was aware of the recent Strategic Vision Inc. Total Value award to BMW, yet I only commented on it when I saw it posted by Dewey.
    I'm trying not to do anything that may get my Lexus Taste invite rescinded.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Realty2, Tagman, Blkhemi and Dhamilton,

    Obviously image, luxury and performance are strongly linked for all HELM manufacturers and buyers. And among all of the manufactureres there is not one that is hundred percent product-obsessed.

    We all know Audi makes amazing products . But why mention that they want to raise prices by raising their image? What auto company says that? The smarter approach is let the product sell itself at higher prices without boasting about higher prices. Sort of like what Lexus will accomplish by increasing the selection of LS models (SWB, LWB, hybrid).

    A desirable V10 TDI DSG product will likely cause a stir and many waiting lists of buyers willing to pay big $$$ for such an Audi. Why should Audi even bother mentioning the need of raising their image in order to raise prices?

    Is it mere coincidence that the priciest Audis have the longest waiting lists (R8, RS and S models)? No and such waiting lists contradict any notion of an image problem.

    That was my point.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    I'm trying not to do anything that may get my Lexus Taste invite rescinded.

    I think it's too late Howard.

    I heard Lexus has already issued a restraining order against you. As soon as I am within a few yards from a Lexus dealerhip I can already hear the barks of German Shepherd attack dogs.

    The only way we can both redeem ourselves is by saying very nice things about Lexus. My biggest challenge right now is visiting a Lexus forum without getting kicked out. :P
  • guestguest Posts: 774
    Since we seem to be on the "How to fix Audi" issue, I say stop making such lame commercials, and drop the 4-cylinder motors.

    HEMLs done do 4-bangers. And Americans don't buy luxury 4-cylinders.

    Unless you consider the first Nissan Altima. I am getting d----- chills from the 1993 Nissan Altima, doh. :sick:

    DrFill
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Why should Audi even bother mentioning the need of raising their image in order to raise prices?

    Because it is the truth.

    Gotta give 'em credit for speakin' the truth.

    All of us know that Audi has been an underdog in the States, while a company like BMW for example, is running like a Swiss watch. If we all agree here that their cars are close enough to Mercedes and BMW in terms of quality, and in some ways even superior, then why is it that they sell in such miniscule numbers by comparison here in the States.

    Image. And it needs a boost. The cars are fine and getting even more exciting all the time. The image needs a boost. Period. The larger public's perception of Audi needs to be raised up.

    The primary point of the Reuters report was that Audi is looking to get profitable, and they recognize that their image is compromised. To command the price increases necessary to make the proper margins, they need to be sure that their image will support those prices.

    Heck, even at current prices, they don't sell like hotcakes. But since they truly are terrific vehicles, the missing link is the public's perceptions. So, the truth is that it is time for some image enhancement that coincides with the attempt to be profitable.

    This is sound and healthy business, IMO. I give Audi kudos for the courage to say that their cars are better than perceived and that their image needs improvement, and I have to also give them credit for trying to run at a profit here in the States. That's the right business decision to become the profitable company that they rightly deserve to be, and do what it takes.

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    blkhemi - this is a sobering article. Just when you truly believe that Audi understands the difference between diesels and hybrids . . . they announce that they are going to sell a hybrid. And, in a Q7 of all things.

    Audi Q7 hybrid in 2008

    What the heck is going on here?

    TagMan
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    Tag, my sentiments exactly.

    What other car company will admit that the public awareness of it's product is lacking? For example, if I told someone that Audi makes 16 different variants of the A4, they'd probably look at me as tho I've got 3 eyeballs in my head.

    The point is, even tho Audi is the low man on the totem pole, the company is making strides to correct the loose ends. I reported this way back at the beginning of the year that Audi will be a force to be reckoned with in the coming months as the company will flip a 180 in the States, thus opening new endeavors for themselves.

    The product that's coming to the States- S3, RS 6, A7, Q5, R8/10- should be enough to stave off any doubts about where they're headed.

    There is a certain stigma that's attached the Audi brand, particularly it's A8, that's unfortunate here in the States. I will go on record again, this is my favorite luxury car company, followed by MBZ. So when there is something that has to be hashed out around here about them, I'll surely be there to correct it...

    Doc, that little 4-cyl engine that you want them to kill accounts for about 68% of all A3/A4 sales, so I don't think they'll part with anytime soon.

    The same can be said about your car company Lexus. Why does every IS I see is an IS250, not the much better IS350? Because that particular car represents a much better value over it's more expensive variant. The same with Audi. The little 200hp 2.0T hooked with DSG beats out most 6 cyl. cars in it's class(save for the 3.5L Lexus and the new 3-Series Turbo) and it gets 34 mpg, so Doc, it's a no-brainer.

    Yes I know, certain people think that in order to be considered a luxo ride, it has to be at least a V6. Well there are 45k buyers a year that thinks otherwise.....
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    In order to be different than the German cars, Lexus is going to go down their own path, against the coming German wave of diesels, and against the publics perception.

    Diesel is a path Lexus wants to travel, but the main goal of the Japanese label is to gain market share from its German competitors by competing in the hybrid niche. In order for this to happen, Schlicht concedes that the perception the public has for hybrid technology must evolve. Further, he adds that “Lexus does not want to follow the German’s with diesels because that way the company could only be good followers. We want to create our own segments for cars with smaller motors.”

    Lexus wants full range to be hybrid

    TagMan
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    Speaking of the catch-22 in the article, what they don't reveal is that this is the supposed super-secret V10 TDI-electric that was to be unveiled with the '09 A8, but Audi decided to introduce it on it's first SUV(allroad notwithstanding).

    The technology is said to take the diesel to over 400hp and 670lb-ft of torque and and increase mileage by over 35%, thus creating a whopping 600+ mile range.

    One quibble tho: This won't be sold in all 50 states because the EPA won't give it certification on the hybrid and emission compliance. Go figure.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    The technology is said to take the diesel to over 400hp and 670lb-ft of torque and and increase mileage by over 35%, thus creating a whopping 600+ mile range.

    You're talking serious numbers here.

    We are finally seeing the truth about just how much energy and/or power can be extracted from a freakin drop of fuel.

    TagMan
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Very interesting that Audi says they want to raise prices to match BMW and Mercedes. Steve would love this if were being said by Lexus. This has to be done very carefully and very gradually, but it is doable.

    Audi's main problem like others have stated is image. Their being linked to VW, or simply put being though of as an expensive VW by too many potential buyers. Some of this is Audi's own fault. Audi goes tall and big with grilles and the VW does something very similar. Why? It makes for confusion.

    Next, VW and Audi's whole corporate structure in this country needs to be seperated, if it hasn't already been. VW bungles model introductions on the regular and promises cars and they arrive months late. Audi doesn't seem to have this problem so maybe this one has already been done. I mean cut all ties to VW's mess in this country except for what it is totally transparent to Audi buyers and dealers alike.

    Audi needs to stop denying the U.S. market their best cars. As far as I can see they've got the hint on this point, so strike that off the list now. Only thing, we still don't get that awesome RS4 Cabriolet.

    Audi's advertising is just awful. That "streets of tomorrow" commercial with the Q7 rolling around the downtown area of a any city U.S.A. is just completely forgettable. Audi needs to show the interiors of their cars and present the lineup as a whole to show the public that they have (IMO) the best looking, most cohesive lineup of cars of any luxury brand. Quattro believe it or not needs to pushed back in advertising because MB, BMW, Acura, Cadillac, Infiniti and Lexus all have AWD on some models or or lot of them depending on the brand in question. Quattro is no longer a clear Audi advantage. Audi needs to show their interiors, exterior styling, hp (well now that gas prices are dropping) and most of all some of their engineering and design features such as direct-injection and aluminum construction. Show the really exotic engineering like MB used to do when they lived by "Engineered like no other car in the World". Audi needs an image driven advertising campain, not a "hard sell" one.

    Lastly, Audi' needs more dealers. They're noticebly absent in smaller towns where MB/BMW/Lexus are present, especially in the south.

    I actually believe that in some of MB/BMW/Lexus' bigger markets people don't even think about Audi because of Quattro (i.e heavy and useless 4wd) and in Cali or Florida what would be the point? Regional advertising is the key for Audi. Quattro driven in the North and Northwest and performance/image/interiors more so in the South and Southwest espeically in the more image driven markets.

    I just know America would love Audi if given the chance to experience them more. What is there not to like?

    M
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