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High End Luxury Cars

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  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Come on. It was early in the morning in the Florida summer. Hot, muggy, EARLY!
    At least I realized a little later that it wasn't the GS430.
    The guy wasn't trying to sell me a GS300 for a GS430 price.
    Simple miscommunication. Hey it happens.

    After all this grilling, I don't even get the supreme court seat.
    Geesh!
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    I test drove the GS300 back to back with an M35 and wrote my review in the LPS forum. While the GS was a great car, I found the M35 a tad better in driving. Duh ! But the GS430 was a totally different beast. That car is a whole lotta different animal from the GS300. You gotta know like 10s, just like Len said. The speed and handling of the GS430 is a lot better than the GS300. I am actualy shocked you liked the GS300 with its slow footed, longer throw tranny, and not very inspiring handling. The GS430 is a worthy competitor to the Bimmer except that the auto rags continue to rag on it due to a lack of a *kill switch* for the VDIM. Not that anyone drives like a maniac on the roads to need a kill-switch for VDIM, or do Bimmer fans always drive like they are on race tracks all the time ? I see more poseur Bimmer owners than real BMW *drivers*, here in San Diego. BMWs, like Lexus, are everywhere.... Everyone and their dog seem to have one.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,662
    Grilling over - you get the job - new sales director of Lexus in Florida.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    I found that the GS430 had wishy-washy adaptive steering which at times seemed quite a bit over-boosted whereas the GS300 had more consistant steering. Also, the brakes on the GS430 (brakes by wire?) were disturbingly grabby. I couldn't bring the vehicle to a well-modulated stop. I did not have this problem with the GS300.
    All in all, too much "innovative interference" on the GS430 for me.
    The VDIM switch was a non-issue for me.
    I drive fast but I'm not suicidal.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Excellent! While I would be paid extremely well for talking up Lexus, I would be using some of that cash to get a Porsche 911.
    I would park it in the back of Lexus Florida Corporate.
    Believe me, Lexus needs no help in Florida.
    There are almost as many Lexi down here as man-eating 'gators.
    What am I doing here?
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    I find it a joke that hpowders is being grilled for what he said about the GS. Isn't it quite funny that the Lexicans here are not being grilled for what they said in prior posts about Bangle design.

    Now that Toyota/Lexus is emulating Bangle all of a sudden Lexicans are united in thier admiration for the Bangle curves of their upcoming LS460.

    I hereby declare that all Lexicans should be put on trial based on their anti Bangle posts from prior years.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,662
    What am I doing here?

    How about - Enjoying the sun.

    I was just down in Sarasota on business a month ago when it was freezing up here. But I stayed in Tampa at the Renaissance Vinoy. Great hotel. It was 84. Came home to a snowstorm in NY and asked the same question to myself.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,662
    "Now that Toyota/Lexus is emulating Bangle all of a sudden Lexicans are united in thier admiration for the curvacious Bangle design of their upcoming LS460"

    How about - We don't see the resemblance. But I guess the big 7 is a big Camry to many of you if that's what you see though.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    So, doesn't that mean that higher prestige is "worth" something?

    Yes! But if you are trying to suggest that a LS is equal to a MB S, forget it! Prestige is reflected in price premiums but prestige also has to be earned with good engineering and design. As I said before if the only advantage MB S has over the Lexus LS is prestige then MB S would be in the same dire consequences as Jaguar is right now.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    First off, this is a truly weak excuse for the S. I have said repeatedly, and Merc1 also agreed, the LS costs less bcos it is produced more efficiently at a lower cost. Conversely, the S costs more becos it is produced at a higher cost. Except if you are asking MB to sell its high-end marque cars at steep losses... to match the LS in price. This is an MB problem, not Lexus'...

    Completely disagree!

    MB is not as cost efficient as Toyota just as Toyota is not as cost efficient as Hyundai. This is not about cost efficiency but about how highly MB is perceived relative to the LS and the willingness of buyers to pay bigger bucks for an equivalent MB.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    The similarity will have a positive impact on the sales of the Camry and a negative impact on the sales of the LS."

    Good luck with that prediction on the LS.


    I am willing to wager that after the first year of intro, LS sales will fizzle and fall flat like Coca Cola sitting in a glass for three days!
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Unlike say.. the Acura RL, the LS460 really is not a big Camry.

    How many buyers of a RL know that they are driving a car with the same platform of an Accord? Certainly not a majority. The RL does look distinct from the current Accord and most buyers can easily be fooled.

    How many potential buyers of a Lexus LS460 will know that the Camry and a Lexus LS have different platforms when both look so much alike? Certainly not a majority.

    Oh yes we forum members can look beyond the pretty styling of any car and view its chassis and drivetrain with X-ray vision. But the majority of buyers outside this forum lack our X-ray vision and cannot look beneath the skin of a car. The majority of buyers will be swayed primarily by appearances and that is the key liability of having a LS resemble a oversized Camry .
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,662
    Then go bet someone but make sure you hedge yourself because you're going to need to. The car is a guaranteed big hit with a lot of staying power. Plus the 600H is going to be snapped up by the high end entertainment crowd big time and the Lexus status bar is going way up.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    If the LS460 was a stock I would be doing a lot of naked call writing in the options market.

    Only time will tell!
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    I like Sarasota. Charming town.
    Lot's of Lexi there, that's for sure.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,662
    Only time will tell!

    For you. I have no doubts.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    MB is not as cost efficient as Toyota just as Toyota is not as cost efficient as Hyundai. This is not about cost efficiency but about how highly MB is perceived relative to the LS and the willingness of buyers to pay bigger bucks for an equivalent MB.

    If buyers are willing to pay bigger bucks for the S why does the LS continually trounce the S in sales YoY for the last 5 yrs running ? Hmmmm.... could it be bcos they are NOT willing to pay bigger bucks, especially where there is a very comparable or better car in the LS ???

    I gave you an example of the LC v LX470. Loaded, a 2006 LX470 retails for $70K. A loaded 2006 LC retails for $60K, a $10K difference. Yet, the higher priced LX470 sells more units than the lower priced LC. Meaning: people will pay for quality. There is a real quality difference b/w these two trucks. If the S430/500 are that much better than the LS, people will gladly pay the higher price, and MB should sell lots more than the cheaper LS.

    Finally, let's do a comparison: How many variants of MB sedans are there v Lexus models ? How many sales of MB cars/SUVs v Lexus cars/SUVs ? How many MB dealerships v Lexus dealerships ???
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    I am willing to wager that after the first year of intro, LS sales will fizzle and fall flat like Coca Cola sitting in a glass for three days!

    No, dewey, it's going to stay carbonated for years to come, although, there's been some sort of chatter about bad transmissions and hesitation issues in the Lexus and Toyota counterparts. Hmmm, maybe there's a slight hairline crack in the Lexus reputation?
  • garyh1garyh1 Posts: 386
    You know, I would like to comment on some of these posts, but by the time I find the time to read them all, I have to go do something else in my "real" non-electronic life.

    Do you folks realize the volume of messages you are all posting? This forum has been running for just over 6 years, and for those first 6 years there were an average of just over 2000 messages per year (BTW, merc1 had 2 of the first 10). Since January 1st of this year, there have been 722 posts in just 13 days - that's the equivalent of over 20,000 posts per year, or over 10 times the previous rate of posting.

    So if that's the quantitative analysis, how about a qualitative analysis? Does anyone believe that the rantings about the "barge-like" qualities of the LS, or the failure of the BMW 7 to be a true HELM, or the superiority of the LS being proven by its sales (as opposed to sales showing that the LS better captures what the American public wants in a car than the S does), or - perhaps what IMHO will be the worst prediction ever made on this board - that the new LS will fail in the marketplace after the first year*, really add anything to our shared knowledge about luxury cars?

    How about this as a New Year's resolution for 2006: let's shoot for less quantity and more quality!

    *Dewey, I hope your stock picks are better than your auto sales projections! Do you really think that by fall 2007 LS will no longer be the sales leader in this segment? If so, I'll take that wager with you - you choose the amount.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    Land Cruiser sales are really hurt by the Sequoia, which outsells it almost 10 to 1. People go into a Toyota showroom and choose the cheaper, bigger and almost as luxurious Sequoia over the Land Cruiser.

    The LX470 doesn't have a Sequoia equivalent sitting next to it taking away sales. There's a reason why Lexus is planning to replace the LX altogether with a Sequoia based JX470.
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