Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





High End Luxury Cars

16446456476496501156

Comments

  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    I think you are looking at model year 2008 for the new LX and 2009 for a new GX. The GX is selling very well and has exceeded their expectations completely. It's a very popular SUV in my town - you see them everywhere - and everyone I know that has one loves it. Lexus hit the mark with it even though I totally agree with you on the third row and as well, the stupidity of the back door swing out.
  • With the HPX? :shades:

    DrFill
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    DRfill - I was there at the NY show as well and that HPX drew in a lot of interested people and excitement. But the issue is will it cannibalize the RX? Personally I don't think so but I can appreciate some serious reservations about that issue at Lexus HQ.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Yes, my environment, (and I think I'll stay discrete here) is LOADED with 'em. Then again, disproportional number of MB's . . . everywhere.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    "never chalk up experience . . . who has more?"

    In the SUV market - Lexus (3 touchdown favorite when they meet on the field)
  • That rig was BIG! MUCH larger than the Infinit FX or RX330, or new M-Class. Similar to the SRX (which I like), but cooler!

    That has $50-55k all over it!

    Maybe they don't want to add another SUV, even a CUV, to prevent overkill.

    DrFill
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    I was really only referring to MB's long legendary history of making and selling autos . . . After all . . . who goes ALL the way back to the beginning of automobiles? It's not Lexus. But, again, I was only making a point . . . no need to debate it.
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    Oh, I'm sure that it wouldn't cannibalize the top-selling RX... and it wouldn't make any sense for them to make a minivan. First of all, what would they call it? MX? Mazda would obviously sue them- maybe VX, but Vauxhall? They won't- the Sienna is already "Lexus-like."

    Also, the RX isn't stale anymore. Along with the popular RX400h, the RX350 was just released. It replaces the RX330 for the 2007 model year and it has 270 horsepower (the same as the LX470's V8!).

    ;)
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Well you don't have to use the word "ugly" per say. Saying that any of the styling elements are awful and/or that they ruin the design is pretty much the same thing to me when it comes to styling. If it isn't good looking then that leaves ugly or bland, or as you put it "overstyled". Either way it ain't good for the S in your eyes.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    But technically there's a weakness in your argument as it that means Lexus just went through the period you're theorizing about in the future (correctly in all likelihood) with very healthy growth. In truth the real answer continues to be something that MB missed - the SUV phase. Lexus can much better balance out its line-up changes because of the the vehicles that many here so often want to exclude - SUV's. Stale cars - new suv's; stale SUV's - new cars; plus a strong wildcard - hybrids. In the US they have much better balance than MB right now and it shows clearly in the sales numbers and what happens when models go stale. My instinct also tells me that if Lexus rolls out a minivan it will do a lot better than the R-class. The issue for them though is the fear that it might cannibalize the RX.

    Well for one I think the SUV boom is over, it will be all about maintaining at this point. Yeah the Germans missed it in the past, heck Audi is just now introducing a SUV nearly 9 years after Mercedes did. Whenever a brand re-designs all of their sedans in a year or so their sales are going to shoot through the roof, if that is the position then yeah they are in better shape than MB. I think I said just that in my post earlier tonight.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    It amazes me how one months of sales (while ignoring other months) are now going to be used as the determining factor as to whether or not the R-Class is going to "make it". Why is that? What part of Jan is historically a slow month for Mercedes isn't understandable here? The R sold over 2000 units in Dec 2005 and if I remember right over 1200 units in Nov of 2005. If it doesn't pick up when Mercedes' sales traditionally do (March/April) then all of this gloom and doom might be in order, until then this is nothing more than hype.

    M
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    merc1 - the R is not good for Mercedes, IMO. Beautiful cars that are admired as we see them in our daily travels are the best advertising in the world. Real life. In real life, the R is ugly. I'll use the word. I don't mean to offend you, but in my opinion, it's strange looking and out of balance. Maybe I'm alone on this, but I just don't think so. I personally don't want it to represent Mercedes Benz. I want to see Mercedes Benz to be known as a builder of reliable, and durable, and beautiful luxury vehicles, regardless of how many vehicles it sells. I want Mercedes Benz to be known for its innovation and engineerng prowess. And, to a large extent that is still the reputation. But, the reliability is down . . . but not down the drain for goodness sakes. The styling is generally beautiful, classy, and elegant, but with the occassional mistake (even the recent C coupe was bad) like this R thing. What do you suggest Mercedes do with it? It is an anchor, IMO, that they could do without. Maybe kill it when the GL comes. Is there another market for it?

    If you sense that it is a success, please explain, because I'm hating it right about now, and I wish it gone.

    TagMan
  • January is a slow month for all manufacturers (pay back time for all the end-of-year discounting). Just seems to be especially slow for MB this year, compared to its venerable HELM peers.

    R class sales was brisk in December when they had that $499/mo lease deal. Cheapened to the price level of a Lexus IS, R (one letter position from S) is not a bad deal. The deal was removed on the website since Jan 1st, now we know R class sales in January crashed. hmm . . . sounds like typical consumer response to old GM tricks: hold onto the money till there's heavy discounts.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    No you're not alone in not liking the R-Class. I'm the one that is alone (at least on this board) in liking it. I don't see it as a "success", but dropping it though is out of the question. If sales never pick up over the production run it could be dropped then, or re-designed to better meet market demands. I can certainly understand you not liking the way it looks compared to Mercedes' cars, but I think the price/interior/value equation is out of whack. This being the reason for it not selling up to expectations. For 2007 there will be some attempt to fix this from what I see on various MB sites. Of course there will be a new V8, either a R450 or a R550 or both. The things I dislike about the interior will take more time to fix. I think there is a market for the R-Class, but the execution is likely off, similar to the first M-Class I think.

    You're right Mercedes is known for those those things, all except for the reliability part. I really think they're trying to fix this, but once the word gets out it takes years to change it back in the right direction. Those who have no experience with this, but live to hype it up don't help either.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Just seems to be especially slow for MB this year, compared to its venerable HELM peers

    No slower than last year when all this false gloom and doom was touted then.

    I agree the sale did move them better in Dec, but the R's sales had been steadily gaining since the mid-Sept intro. I don't see it as a failure, yet.

    M
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I agree, the only thing that can really be the saving grace for Jaguar is unquestionably gorgeous cars. Despite being 10 years old, the outgoing XK is still a very good looking car. If it looked like the SC430, I'm sure that sales would've dropped to zero years ago. It makes me wonder if Ian Callum is the right man for the job. The new XK is good looking, but it looks as much like a V8 Vantage as it does an E-type.

    Talking about the current XJ, I'm not sure where the pricing should go. Is it still the '80s Jags that are killing the market value of a two year old XJ? Or does the market just not believe the car is worth the retail price Jaguar is asking?

    As a longer term strategy, I just dont think that trying to sell XJs in the $50-70K range can work, and I think that is the conclusion that the PAG management has come to. Ford has resources, but they have a lot on their plate to deal with. Jaguar is only a small part of that. In contrast, BMW, Mercedes, and Lexus can throw their full might behind their flagships, and redesign them every six to seven years. Even the beleaguered VWAG has managed to give Audi a lot more attention than Jag has been getting from Ford.

    I think the smarter way to go is to let the LS460, S450, 750, and A8 4.2 duke it out on their own.
  • That doesn't sound right. Both Lexus and BMW are updating their model ranges on 5-6yr cycles, whereas MB is working on 8-yr cycle (e.g. your S class example). How did that get turned into an MB advantage? We all know that new models sell, old ones do not (without outrageous discounting anyway).
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    I think there is a market for the R-Class, but the execution is likely off, similar to the first M-Class I think.

    The M was off, but not so derailed. And consider how long it took to dial it in. The R has a LONG slow road ahead, doesn't it?
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    In your haste you clearly misread that post, the advantage is with Lexus and BMW, not Mercedes. The S-Class is a 7-year car just like the previous 7-Series was.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    The M was off, but not so derailed. And consider how long it took to dial it in. The R has a LONG slow road ahead, doesn't it?

    If they make real changes in engine/equipment for 2007 and it still doesn't sell, then yes.

    M
Sign In or Register to comment.