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High End Luxury Cars

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Comments

  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Let's not be silly. An SUV is what it is. BMW cannot modify physical laws.

    Let's talk sedans. Every BMW sedan can run rings around any Lexus sedan. This is so well understood that it might as well be a physical law.
  • I'm not entirely convinced that 750i can run rings around IS350 (for the same reason that 750i and 760i can not even run rings around 545i), or even for that matter 550i could. 325i obviously can not. 330i is slower, so it can not. We are still waiting on the verdict on 335i vs. IS350.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    A guy on another thread owns an Acura TL and a Porsche 911.

    Nice cars, although I'm not crazy about the TL. The interior styling is kind of all over the place, and the turning circle is awful. That, and I've never liked its stock 17" wheels, I think they're ugly.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,894
    Hey, I can top that with an LX470, Acura RL and a 350Z! Hmmm...no German cars. Imagine that!

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    We're all at a party but none of us know each other as we do in these forums. Would we criticize each others' preferences? No. If someone told me he had a Lexus I would say nice, then proceed to tell him all of the desirable attributes and commend him for his choice.

    So there. And on that note I think we need a group hug.

    ;-)
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,894
    Good one designman.

    Tag, you are one of the reasons I enjoy this forum. I just like to pull your chain now and then and I know you enjoy doing the same to me. From my perspective it is all good fun and I have a lot of respect for you and your opinions. Now, how about that hug? :blush:

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    I was going to ask him why he has 2 vehicles that seem to be polar opposites in the same garage. Then I got tangled up in the latest "us vs them" wars here.

    Yes. Something is wrong when the Accord has a shorter turning circle than the "sportier" TL. I sat in the TL at the auto show. Did not care for the look of the black leather or the rest of the interior. Not too roomy either. However, the TL will get no complaints from me on the quality of its paint, sheetmetal, or exterior design.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    "Walking away."

    Funny how people see things differently:

    I'm thinking of ol' Steve who did an exhaustive, comprehensive study of HELM posters (which I'm sure earned him a sociology doctorate from some matchbook university) and found that with all the hours Tag spent at posting here over the last year, he had absolutely no time to eat, sleep, hold a job, see his wife and kids and worst of all, drive his cars! :surprise:
  • anthonypanthonyp Posts: 1,857
    I checked the a 8 out today with the legroom issue...My son has fairly long legs, and I noticed they almost touched the dashboard...I suggested he put the seat back , and it already was back...That is the second person I noticed so you are absolutely right ...The drives seat may go back further than the passenger seat, so I`l check that out...The bmw will be back tomorrow--but as I remember it the passenger seat went back plent far enough...I`l check that out also...Remember my 8 is the short version, so i imagine the long version would have more leg room...On a further note the a8 is a little small overall although for me it is fine as I am six feet and rarely have people in the car....I`m with you Tag....Tony
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Thanks for your kind support Tony. I wish Audi and many other vehicles weren't "disconnected" at the auto show. I may have been able to find a decent seat adjustment. Why let us sit in a vehicle if it doesn't "fit?" It sure doesn't make for a positive impression.

    As to the 545 legroom, it is slightly more generous than the 3 Series, which means I could use a bit more. However, the left footwell is a perfect size and my right leg does not bump into the console. The only BMW that I find has adequate legroom is the X5.

    It took me a long time to get the 545 driver's seat correct for me. Thank goodness for memory settings. When I take the car in for its first oil change, I just know the seat will be totally out of position. Why is it that the guy who changes the oil is always 4'10"?
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Why is it that the guy who changes the oil is always 4'10"?

    And he leaves the radio set to a freaky music station no one else even knew existed.

    TM
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Try not to get distracted. ;-)

    Mercedes with clear wheels
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    However, the TL will get no complaints from me on the quality of its paint, sheetmetal, or exterior design.

    They did do a nice job on the exterior. Acuras are usually hit-and-miss, but the TL came out nicely, other than a somewhat bland rear end, which is a typical Honda design fault.

    I actually like the Accord's interior better. In past years the inside of the TL was just an Accord with some poor quality fake wood thrown around. This time the fake wood (or fake carbon fibre) is still poor quality, there's just a lot of metallic trim added with no real rhyme or reason to try and give it some "zazz". I think Acura needs to lock their interior guys in a few Audis. Even the Passat looks a lot better than the TL on the inside.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    That's uncanny. I meant to add that but left it out.
    Always some strange music I've never heard of.
    Maybe its the same guy.
    We post 24/7. He repairs 24/7.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Sorry, D-man . . . I got distracted, over and over again. But I did hear the guy say that you should take the wheels off every three weeks to clean the backside. Is that a job we should all look forward to?

    Cool looking though.

    TagMan
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    The Passat has a nice upscale interior. I found the driver's seat comfortable. Unfortunately, its V6 price is getting a little upscale too: close to $40k MSRP loaded, although I'm sure there's plenty of room for negotiation. I wouldn't pay more than $30k, loaded. It is still after all, a VW.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    I like the flame job on the bike. Would like to see it applied to the Mercedes. My tastes are somewhat conservative with cars but I do appreciate street cars that can bring home the flambuoyant applications. And it's very hard to find good flames. They're usually so tacky.
  • reality2reality2 Posts: 303
    There are strong rumors that Audi is going to release something similar as the R-Class in the scope of the Roadjet Concept previewed earlier this year. It will be quite large and sit high as the R-Class. However, no official word or sightings of such a vehicle.
  • guestguest Posts: 774

    I dont know about that. The SC did better back in '02 and '03 yes, but it was never any threat to the RX or ES in terms of sales. I don't think the LX has ever been a big seller, going all the way back to the LX450. The original SC was very much a niche vehicle, selling at most a few hundred cars a month.

    If a luxury version of the RAV4 can bring more sales to the brand, why not do it? Why just hand the market to the competition? The current RX350 ranges from around $38K-46K. The '09 version will probably be something like $40-50K. That creates room for a smaller, lux ute priced in the low to mid 30s.


    Who wuss comparing the Sc to the RX/ES? The SC is a $60k convertible! The LX sold around 10k a year, 12k at the most. The SC peaked at 17k (Lexus wanted to sell 10k).

    The Original SC sold in the 15k-25k range, so a few hundred a month is belittling it's legacy quite a bit.

    Regarding an X3-type for Lexus, that's probably why lexus is moving the RX upmarket, to field a new entry SUV.

    Personally, I think that's a mistake, and Lexus should build a bigger brother to the RX, not blow up the RX. UNLESS they intend to do what they did with the LS, and continue to make a standard version, with similar price and market, and then an extended version, for the higher market.

    I don't think that's in the plans, but I would do just that, if they won't make a HPX-type big brother.

    Keep the RX350 under $40k, and then make a Super RX460 for $50-60k.

    Maybe they can "Mini-me" the RX? Just make a smaller RX.

    The Lexus lineup should revolve around cornerstones like the RX. The RX couldn't be more perfect in targeting the lux-ute market. I wouldn't do any high-wire acts with it.

    DrFill
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    The X3 isn't selling all that well because of it's stiff ride and it's even stiffer price, especially the former.

    Hey, from these boards I thought the entire population of car buyers wanted a stiff ride! Yet, the X3 is a perfect example of handling & road feel meaning squat to car buyers.

    Lexus already has a $30K IS, so why not have a $30K to $40K CUV? The RDX is lame, styling wise and all. a CR-V based $30K CUV is simply keeping Acura downmarket. A IS based CUV would be a good move. Ward's said the upcoming supposed "JX" Lexus line is probably the IS based CUV.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    The Original SC sold in the 15k-25k range, so a few hundred a month is belittling it's legacy quite a bit.

    Not for long. By its '97 reskin, sales were less than half of that. By the end, it struggled to break 2,000 sales a year for the V6 and V8 combined.

    As far as I know, Lexus is building a bigger brother to the RX. The '09 RX is supposed to grow a few inches, just as the RX330 did over the RX300. It won't get seven seats. The HPX name was later changed to "Lexus future vehicle-X". When a concept gets the "LF" tag, it means its going to happen, supposedly with the JX tag for 2008. It may or may not kill off the GX470.

    Lexus originally panned the idea of a mini-ute until they saw that everybody else was jumping in the market, and have just recently changed their minds about doing one. It probably wont show until 2010 at the earliest.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Of course I meant sales in it's prime, not after it was allowed to wither and die.

    The RX is pretty big as is. If they make it bigger, than make something even bigger over it, it would have to compete with the Merc GL for Large Crossover supremacy.

    It would appear, with the success of the GL, and the moves to smaller lux-utes, Lexus will bracket the RX at $30k with one, and at $55k with one.

    The current GX, which is still very solid in sales, is inappropriate for Lexus' long term, crossover-rich strategy. Trucks like that are fading away.

    I'm surprised a Large Crossover from Lexus isn't here by now! A Land Cruiser-remake at $65k in 2008 seems passe to me at this point.

    The HPX would be a SRX/FX competitor. But Lexus needs something to compete with Escalade and GL. Bigger than the Land Cruiser.

    If Lexus can infuse the IS' style into a SUV, maybe that would work. :blush:

    I guess if I were making a plan for Lexus' SUV Division: 2010, it would be:

    1. Make a Sporty SUV with IS styling for $32k-40k
    2. Have the RX at $40-50k, with 3rd-row seating in a $4-5k package.
    3. Make a SRX/FX-type SUV for $45k-$60k
    4. A GL/Range Rover level SUV for $65k+

    If they use the Land Cruiser platform for an LX, it should be stretched to at least 195".

    DrFill
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    You guys have way too much time on your hands on Saturdays!

    I have actually forgotten where I stand on the Lexus/BMW issue!

    M
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    1. Make a Sporty SUV with IS styling for $32k-40k
    2. Have the RX at $40-50k, with 3rd-row seating in a $4-5k package.
    3. Make a SRX/FX-type SUV for $45k-$60k
    4. A GL/Range Rover level SUV for $65k+


    Yeah the GX and LX seem like yestertech when compared to new trucks like the Q7 and GL. Obviously they're still around just because its a very short trip to pick up already developed platforms and drivetrains. The Escalade though is just a mainstream body-on-frame truck with a bunch of glitz thrown around though, its no better than the GX or LX in that regard. At least they don't have column shifters and segmented, tilt-only steering wheels. That last part is just pathetic.

    I don't see how the LF-X could compete with the SRX and FX, as the RX already competes in that space, along with the ML, X5, etc. The '09 version will most likely be RX350\RX450h, with a price range of $40-55K. The RX really doesn't need a V8, as Lexus has been able to keep the weight down hundreds of pounds below the competition, so its fast enough, especially for the typical RX buyer.

    Having the LF-X be like the IS to the RX's ES doesn't make much sense to me, I just don't think there's a lot of demand for a sporty midsize crossover from Lexus. I would make the LF-X into the Q7, GL competitor.
  • If I have to guess, a low-end Lexus SUV entry would be based on the new RAV4. The V6 engine performance is great for that class (overkill, IMHO, for where RAV4's original market is; I was actually quite surprised that it's marketted as a Toyota not a Lexus, the V6 version anyway). It would also make for quick product development before the market segment is saturated. The problem is then, where would the RX go? It whould have to be bigger, perhaps with 3 rows? Just my guess. In any case, it does seem to me that Toyota/Lexus messed up their compact SUV offerings with the RAV4 on steroids . . . unless Toyota/Lexus is serious about moving the Toyota brand up-market . . . but having a V6 RAV4 compete head-to-head against X3 is a bit too much to ask of the brand . . . some day perhaps, but not there yet. A Lexus branded version running on practically same mechanicals would on the other hand do quite well. (Of course, having a RAV4 with a fabulous engine selling at Toyota price without Lexus markup is a great deal for consumers :-)
  • anthonypanthonyp Posts: 1,857
    Further checked out the seat situation, and found the passenger seat does not slide as far back as the driver`s, by about two inches--which is alot--Although the a8 short is ok for me, and there is more than enough legroom for pretty much any driver(not Shacque?), if I were to suggest a car for anybody I would surely point out that drawback ..Thinking about any driver that is tall, the suv with it`s chair sort of seat, would be more comfortable....I guess that is why they are so popular anyway...Tony
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    n any case, it does seem to me that Toyota/Lexus messed up their compact SUV offerings with the RAV4 on steroids . . . unless Toyota/Lexus is serious about moving the Toyota brand up-market . . . but having a V6 RAV4 compete head-to-head against X3 is a bit too much to ask of the brand . . . some day perhaps, but not there yet.

    Er.. the RAV4 V6 really doesn't compete with the X3. A RAV4 Limited V6 AWD starts at $26K, and tops at $30K. The X3 3.0i starts at $38K, and as with any BMW it can go way up from there. Toyota used the 3.5L V6 because they clearly wanted to get out of the CR-V, Forester market.

    While the recently retired 245hp 3.0L V6 from the GS300 would've been perflectly fine in a RAV4 role, and in past years Toyota probably would've gone that route, the "new" power-obsessed Toyota wanted to put the smack down on the competition like the Equinox and Vue V6s, CX-7 turbo, etc., and the big 3.5 does just that.

    Its not as if the lines between Toyota and Lexus haven't been somewhat gray before. The Camry could've gotten the 3.0 as well, but they gave it the 3.5 with just four less horses than the ES350. Since the RAV4 V6 tops at $30K, there's plenty of room in the $33-40K space for a new Lexus mini-ute based on the RAV4. I haven't heard anything about using the IS platform in that role.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,894
    If I wanted a small SUV I would certainly look at the X3, the Rav V6 and the small Acura. So in that sense I would say that they do compete. What other competition could the X3 have? Remember that Toyota has a big labor cost advantage over BMW so the content of the two is not that different.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    If I wanted a small SUV I would certainly look at the X3, the Rav V6 and the small Acura. So in that sense I would say that they do compete.

    For now, mostly what they have in common is their size. The X3 is more of the lux-ute and can be optioned WAY above the RAV4 and even the RDX.

    What other competition could the X3 have?

    I could see why you would ask that. It is because the REAL competition for the X3 isn't even out yet. The small luxury SUV segment is just getting warmed up out of the gate.

    Soon you should expect to see a very cool brand new LR2 from Land Rover by May of '07, and a brand new MLK from Mercedes in about a year or so. Then the X3 will have some nice company in its own playing field.

    image

    image

    :D

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Hey, Pat . . . Just for you . . .

    Try this Mercedes SL600 "Diamond" Edition . . . just your style, baby. ;)

    image

    TagMan
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