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High End Luxury Cars

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Comments

  • Very much in agreement. The hard performance data and at-the-limit perspectives from the magazine reviews are much more meaningful than the fluff "reviews" and "rankings" by the scribe/space-filler side of the business.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    ads that were developed by kids who were barely weaned from their crayons.

    You KNOW I'm going to chime in.

    Here's one of my beefs: Ad agencies appear complacent until something like the Super Bowl comes along, and then they actually try to create a great ad. After all, the Super Bowl has become a competitive forum for presenting advertising genius (and lack thereof!). And, yet some of them are still lousy. If that's the best they can do then it seems to me that throughout much of the year, agencies focus too much on "selling" a mediocre concept "to" their client rather than "creating" a great concept "for" their client.

    While most products should benefit from good advertising . . . My best advice to manufacturers:

    It's better to build a great product that has screams "buy me" on its own merits, instead of a lousy product that requires a "hard sell".

    TagMan
  • benzsterbenzster Posts: 152
    HOPEFULLY, this is not considered, nor is it meant to be spam. Tell me which ads you prefer:
    http://www.mbusa.com/whatsnew.do
    lower RH side view commercials
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    benzster said to me: Tell me which ads you prefer:

    OK, benzster . . . here goes . . .

    Ad one: "1887" - nice point made about the folks that made the very first car . . . but to take the evolution in one step from the very first car to the R of all things . . . well . . . let's just say that the ending would have been better with perhaps the new S-Class. Reason? The ad was portraying the "original" and the "latest". The "latest", in this case, needed to have also been the "greatest", and it just "ain't the R". Good start, then derails.

    Ad two: "curb appeal" - Nice ad! Good use of video graphics to evolve nicely throughout the years to a good conclusion. The Mercedes image was well supported throughout . . . and the "first" four-door coupe as the last image and statement further elevates the image. Overall, well done.

    Ad three: "blank page" - worthless. there is nothing "blank page" about a "redesign" that looks like the first design. Sorry ad, IMO.

    Ad four: "test track" - Much better. Good action w/ injected humor makes the performance point . . . mission accomplished. The ad further makes a motivational pitch regarding the attractive base price. All-in-all, not a grand slam, but a very good textbook type of ad.

    BTW, thanks for asking . . . and I hope I gave you enough feedback!

    TagMan
  • benzsterbenzster Posts: 152
    I agree.
    Although I still feel the R is a new concept.... somewhere between a Caravan and an Opel Vectra. At least MB wants us to believe it. There are some Lux sedans in Europe that sport a square back (although the make escapes me). MB is always late on the promo. Revealing portions of a vehicle from under a sheet over a period of time is not MB style. Did you see a R Class ad prior to release? It is the German way; we will build it, they will like it, and they will buy it. 2 Germans showing off their antique cart and the beautiful landscape..... history lesson Pass

    2: Fun, funky, a history lesson.... again Fair

    3: If you ask me, I could give you 200 reasons why this is "new". As a viewer... looks the same to me! Fail

    4: Funny, it gave visual info. "I did not know a truck would do that" feel. Did you see it hanging out the rear, and that high speed controlled slide is wicked awesome! A SUV that doesn't look like it has much hint of body roll. The driver is so calm. I watched it, paused it, watched it AGAIN! Best yet.

    I find myself watching other manufacturers ads showing off this and that while all the time saying to myself, "self, you realize MB had that 3 years ago. Why did we not say that?". But they do a good job or better than MB or I guess DC.

    I would rather see a progression of the S Class chassis 109,116,126,104,220, and finish with the new 221. Maybe on the Nurburgring changing chassis as it appears and disappears thru the banking and the old long strait. That is my kind of history lesson.

    I suggest watching Speed vision on demand Porsche VBD showcase. OOOOOOOOooooo chills.
  • All three responses are seriously flawed and dont need any rebuttal.

    The linear model holds true and has been extensively verified by me and dozens of others with variety of cars. Those who have the means to get hold of testing gear and cars from different makes can verify it themselves.

    My PhD took 5 years and I was on stipend with tuition waiver (no 35K/yr expenses). I advise you dont hang around much with chefs and hares.
  • docnukemdocnukem Posts: 485
    I would be interested in seeing the data and the literature. Can you please include your sources? I'm sure others here would also like to track down the research that proves the linear model that you suggest. Certainly, if the data supports such a model, that would be material worthy of publishing.
  • warthogwarthog Posts: 216
    "The hard performance data and at-the-limit perspectives from the magazine reviews are much more meaningful than the fluff "reviews" and "rankings" by the scribe/space-filler side of the business."

    I'm not sure what you mean here. If your point is that "at the limit" performance is important to the average buyer (or to you) then it's so only from a psychological standpoint since no one takes these cars remotely close to their limits except at a track. And how many of us go to a track? We like to know that our car is capable of outperforming someone else's car only to fluff up our ego ( and maybe other parts). That's what the advertising is all about, isn't it?

    Now don't get me wrong. I'm not knocking the phenomenon-- I'm part of it. But I don't kid myself that I bought a [insert name of your ride] so I can actually "out-perform" anybody except in my fantasies.
  • On this board some people put down the pain in the neck electrical glitches that some MB are afflicted with and talk up the bullet proof reliability of Lexus. Some go on to tell us how much their time is worth, how horrible it is to sit in a MB Service Waiting Room, etc.

    I'm no MB driver (too young at 61) and certainly no Lexus fan but I think that this whole thing is overdrawn. For car nuts like us, its usually FUN to check out a high end dealership from time to time, drop a car off for service, pick up a loaner and be gone. Sure I guess if we all tried hard enough we could come up with some impressive opportunity costs related to being 20 minutes late to the office some morning because we had to drop off the MB and pick up a loaner. Much of the time when I hear someone tell me what a pain it is to bring in their 997 for an oil change or their S Class for warranty, I am reminded of the old saying, "are you bragging or complaining." I find it curious that we children of the 60's who were raised on Dylan and Baez turn to running down local high end dealers as "crooks" or worse after they get tired of talking about how much their home and beach house are going up in value.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    I think that this whole thing is overdrawn.

    As you discuss reliability on this forum it has always been overblown. Even the statistics bear that out, as the TRUE differences between high reliability ratings and moderate reliability ratings are not really that huge at all. An extra trip or two to the luxury car service department is definately more like you describe, with the nice "red carpet treatment", and often the warranty or service contract picks up the tab as well, so I totally agree with you on this!

    However, I do want to add that while our "lifestyles" are not too terribly disrupted at the high-end service departments on occassion, there IS legitimate merit and value to reliability of products and services that we purchase, regardless of what they are. Lexus rightfully deserves and has earned the bragging rights here, but I do suppose that blowing trumpets in every ear can sometimes be a bit much.

    TagMan
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Or did you just say "Uncle"?

    And thank you, again, for enhancing my point, as you reminded me of the Innovative "December To Remember" campaign, which has influenced how the "competition" advertise at the end of the year, but has also caused the birth of a new industry, oversized car bowes.


    No, how about I didn't think enough of any of that to even get into it. Lexus December to remember is to me the winner of the most tacky award by far, and Lexus having engineers from countries in which they don't even sell/compete in, looking over their cars says wannabe to me. Just like the 2006 IS brochure does. This is the kind of advertising that makes them great? Please. Its tack at its best.

    M
  • All three responses are seriously flawed and dont need any rebuttal.

    Where is the flaw? and you can't rebutt? A very simple question: go ahead and change the final gear ratio on your current car, then come back and tell us how much difference in 0-60 that makes despite not power-to-weight ratio change.

    Power-to-weight ratio can not possibly be the single determinant of 0-60, other wise, why do companies bother with transmission improvements? tire improvements? FWD/RWD/AWD all have different drive train losses. If you accept that drive train efficiency improve over time, then how can you have the same co-efficient for your linear model over time? If the co-efficient change over time, isn't only reasonable to expect that some companies achieve a new co-efficient before others do?

    The linear model holds true and has been extensively verified by me and dozens of others with variety of cars. Those who have the means to get hold of testing gear and cars from different makes can verify it themselves.

    Care to list the cars and instrument that you personally and the "dozens" used? How exactly did you test the engine output youself? Stripping it out of your car? dozens of them? If you are talking about mfr spec, you have a problem right there: different manufacters quote engine specs with very different confidency range. You can not be seriously telling us all that Audi A4's and BMW 3's have the same co-efficients in your linear model . . . historically they almost always are not the same. BMW's quote their engine output very conservatively.

    My PhD took 5 years and I was on stipend with tuition waiver (no 35K/yr expenses). I advise you dont hang around much with chefs and hares.

    Hey, I was not the one dropping names left and right . . . merely pointing out that MIT has its own share of dummies. When I was at MIT, the saying was that, the smart ones did not finish their PhD's (or even start them); some better opportunity should have come along for the deserving long before the 9 yrs of post-secondary job-bank waiting period is up.
  • Let me clarify, not only do I not drive my cars to the limit, I don't even buy cars that excell at being driven to the limit . . . furthermore, personally I don't care a hoot about how cars handle at the limit; nor do I care about outperforming others. . . I drive automatics, wagons and SUV's, for the time being, . . . goes to show how much I care about handling and limits of driving.

    My point was that, the data and at-the-limit handling reports (for those who care) are more factual, with some pertinence for people who do not have the facility or instruments to carry out their own tests. The subjective space fillers (including "best" rankings), are just that, subjective; like they say, opinions are like . . ., everyone has one.
  • Predicability is the key. I would not mind having to take my car in on a regular monthly schedule. That I can plan for. It's the unschedule service interruptions, or the risk of, that makes many people uneasy about certain marques. Showing up in office on time is the least of concerns; I can give myself a whole week off if I so desire, pre-planned . . . however, when there is an appointment with a client, I can't afford to be late.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    How could any of that be true when a car like the LS430 usually wins over a bunch of more driver orientated cars?

    When it comes to cars like the Camry and Accord, nearly everything about them is dead equal so why not give the nod to the car that provides a better driving experience in addition to all the quality/reliability (i.e. boring) stuff that buyers usually look for?

    When two cars are pretty much evenly matched everywhere else why shouldn't the victory go to a car that provides a better driving experience?

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Searing post. What would you like to see them do? If they get to bogged down in engineering don't they run the risk of becoming stuffy or boring?

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I would rather see a progression of the S Class chassis 109,116,126,104,220, and finish with the new 221. Maybe on the Nurburgring changing chassis as it appears and disappears thru the banking and the old long strait. That is my kind of history lesson.

    Ok, maybe, just maybe this is something like Designman is talking about? This would be great too imo. You should foward that idea. On Autospies they have a lot of pics of the S-Class launch in Arizona and they had the entire S-Class lineup present to convey exactly what you're talking about.

    Pic

    M
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Well, I seared everyone. MB happened to be the topic du jour.

    I feel like I’m at work now. I don’t know, there are so many ways to advertise Mercedes, we'd have to do some mining. Mercedes can be stuffy without being arrogant. One thing that comes to mind is the safety angle since this is high on priority for buyers and is one of the major MB benefits. Also, they have been innovators. And then there is the badge. Tons can be done around that alone.

    But remember the big idea, the killer concept. I thought the Mustang ad at last years Super Bowl was not exactly killer, but was pretty powerful. That’s the one that played to the tune of Hendrix’ Star Spangles Banner IIRC. The big one cannot always be achieved, but there are plenty of effective ways to get into the buyer’s head.

    BMW has a killer slogan in the ultimate driving machine. I have to believe this term has gotten more mileage than any other effort in the history of auto advertising. I think Ford’s aerodynamics-oriented advertising with the first Taurus in the 80s was also big.

    It takes major efforts, research and sound thinking to come up with effective ad campaigns. If this interests anyone, do yourself a favor and read David Ogilvy’s “Ogilvy on Advertising.” The ads demonstrated are all dated now, but fundamentals are very clear and relevant today. And it’s just simply interesting and entertaining. He was a guru’s guru.
  • benzsterbenzster Posts: 152
    Oh how I miss my 300SEL.
    MB if nothing else, offers an endless array of subject matter.
    I had a 67 Cadillac conv. power seats, cruise, tilt wheel, etc. Compared to my 70's 300SEL manual seats and Becker radio... I wonder what people thought or said back then. How did they sell a lux. veh. with no lux. accessories?

    Anyone old enough to have walked into a MB showroom in the 70's ?
  • benzsterbenzster Posts: 152
    not only do I not drive my cars to the limit, I don't even buy cars that excell at being driven to the limit . . .

    I avoided a deer in a 06 R Class at 100mph. by performing a complete lane change to the shoulder and back. I assure you, every handling aspect of this vehicle came into play. When I say avoided I mean I only nicked her foot but she jumped square into my lane in the dark. "alls I'm sayin"
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