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High End Luxury Cars

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Comments

  • garyh1garyh1 Posts: 386
    it is bland and boring to me

    It's boring even before you drive it? Wow, I can't even imagine what you will be saying after you take it around the racetrack - especially following a lap in the Targa!

    I haven't even seen one close up yet, but I am concerned that the SWB is all the size I want and need, but it can't be outfitted with the upgraded suspension, and it probably will never get AWD.

    I'll be interested to see how much "de-Banglized" the next 7 will be the spy pictures give me some hope on that (were those pictures from early October posted on here while I was on hiatus? If not, here's a link). And if I could only get beyond the ugliness of the "bass-mouth" of the A8 and my concern about service from the local dealer, it likely would be my next car. It's still going to take more time for me to warm up to the exterior of the S - if ever.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    It's boring even before you drive it? Wow, I can't even imagine what you will be saying after you take it around the racetrack - especially following a lap in the Targa!

    I'm sure an invigorating drive in the LS is all it will take to make me forget about that S600. ;)

    It's still going to take more time for me to warm up to the exterior of the S - if ever.

    I assume you are referring to the trunk? A bit too chunky?

    TagMan
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    .

    While Volkswagen and Mercedes already sell diesels in the U.S. market, BMW has no plans to do so any time soon and declines to use the BLUETEC name, currently being used to help sell Mercedes-Benz E 320s that run on ultra low sulphur diesel in the U.S.

    I think BMW is doing a big mistake. Fuel efficiency is becoming of greater importance for luxury/nonluxury and performance/non-performance vehicles

    SOURCE:REUTERS
  • guestguest Posts: 774
    What's with the comparison LS vs. S600?

    That's not what Lexus is going for! These cars aren't comparable, in price, power, or exclusivity. :confuse:

    But if you insist on comparing them, maybe Lexus is doing better than I thought!

    Having driven both the S550 and LS460L back-to-back, let me reiterate that the LS is clearly better-looking, has similar quality of materials inside, I had no footwell problems, was close to being as fast, if not as fast, and the Benz was a little more happy on the TOL driving course.

    Considering the mistake-free, NON-slabsided exterior, easy to use, but quite luxurious interior, ample power, with vise-free handling (didn't roll or squeal once under two rather intense drives), it is a remarkable improvement on a car that had few faults to start with.

    I've driven a late-90's E420, and I remember the seats being......hard, not firm. The leather was not there to make me feel comforted.

    Driving the LS and S, I didn't notice much of a difference on that note. I thought both seats were appropriately soft, without being mushy and non-supportive. Lexus has influenced Mercedes here, there is no doubt. :)

    DrFill
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Thanks to the rest of you with regards to the Targa...but, until I take delivery next Tuesday, it's not "official". I'll post after the final "official" outcome

    I am planning to order a 2013 Porsche 911 Carerra S. I haven't phoned a Porsche dealership yet but I will definitely leave Nov. 15th, 2012 6:30PM free for a test drive. ;)
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    The Automobile Journalists Association of Canada did not award the MB S or Lexus LS as the prestige car for 2007. They chose the Audi S8 instead.

    At least you and I can agree that Audi is the best automaker in the HELC segment . Unfortunately Lexus has a long long way to go in terms of introducing a car like the Audi S8.

    Prestige Car (over $75,000): A new record was set here for the most expensive vehicle to ever win an AJAC award, when the $150,250 Audi S8 claimed victory over the Lexus LS 460L and Mercedes-Benz S550. .

    BestCarsfor2007
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,894
    Car of the year in Japan, Popular Mechanics Top Luxury Car Award of Excellence, AutoWeek Top Luxury Car. And they are just getting started folks.

    To quote AutoWeek. "The new LS has them stammering in Stuttgart, shaking in Swabia, and incredulous in Ingolstadt. Lexus has upset the balance in the luxury car market".

    I expect this will become more and more apparent in the coming months.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    What's with the comparison LS vs. S600?

    Doc...I checked my comments and they were only to illustrate the stark contrast, not comparison, between the two.

    These cars aren't comparable, in price, power, or exclusivity.

    Exactly...no comparison.

    You say that the LS is better looking, but that's only your opinion, because the looks of the LS put me to sleep.

    The LS460 is boring from the standpoint of looks, but I haven't driven it yet, and unless it somehow is full of driving excitement, I don't see it's advantage when there are other more beautiful cars out there.

    I'm sorry, Doc, but this is not personal, I promise.

    I just don't see these LS cars as being worth their ridiculously high prices. All that plastic inside, and while they may be an improvement over the previous models, they've got a ways to go in the looks department, especially for those kinds of price tags.

    Personally, I really think the cars are very much like upscale Toyotas. That's what I see when I look at them. Upscale Toyotas.

    The LS460 looks like a $50K car.
    The LS460L looks like a $60K car.
    The LS600hL looks like a $75K car.

    But, please do not take this personal. Your opinions are fine with me, and I respect the Lexus vehicles for their ultra reliability. They are good cars...and boring, IMO.

    TagMan
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    On the other hand, the Audi S8 and S600 left me wishing for one and truly admiring them. Big (really big) difference that can't be ignored.

    True, very true. The problem with the LS460 is that the design inside and out has nothing special to it. The interior design is the same as the new Camry, only turned up a quite a bit in the way of features and materials. The car continues to be the plain paper bag luxury car.

    The thanks part has been taken care of.... ;)

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Considering the mistake-free, NON-slabsided exterior, easy to use, but quite luxurious interior, ample power, with vise-free handling (didn't roll or squeal once under two rather intense drives), it is a remarkable improvement on a car that had few faults to start with.

    Keep telling yourself this and the design won't appear slab-sided to you anymore, but it is. That crease at the upper part of the body is really off too.

    I've driven a late-90's E420, and I remember the seats being......hard, not firm. The leather was not there to make me feel comforted.

    I see the problem with your test drive and Topspin's both of you are comparing a 2007 Benz to one that was designed in the 80's (1995 E420) or even earlier in the case of Topspin's test drive. To sit here and say that Lexus has influenced Mercedes is a ridiculous if you can't see where the LS' series entire being is due to Mercedes. A few cues from Lexus for Mercedes pales, doesn't even compare to a lifetime of envy and up until now blatant copying.

    A S-Class is supposed to be plusher than a E or ML, no matter what year they are.

    M
  • garyh1garyh1 Posts: 386
    It's still going to take more time for me to warm up to the exterior of the S - if ever.

    I assume you are referring to the trunk? A bit too chunky?


    "Chunky" is putting it nicely. But my bigger problem is with the oversized wheel arches, especially the front ones. They make the car look like it is a crouching cat.

    Judging only from the pictures I've seen, the new LS looks pretty well proportioned with a "clean design". That's what I loved about the previous S. But somehow I don't suppose you called that exterior "boring"? I think the previous LS's exterior could more justifiably be called boring than the new one. But of course, that's just IMO.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,894
    Good grief, if the same people are going to post 20 times a day just to bash the LS, then at least come up with something new to whine about. We get the message. You are intimidated and you fear this car. Now take a break and try to come up with something constructive and positive for a change.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Houdini,

    no need to get so defensive. But since you are in defensive mode I'd like the priviledge of tweaking your nose a bit more with the following from Forbes about the LS:

    1)Not all of the new technology on the LS 460 has such palpable advantages. Lexus demonstrated the car’s self-parking feature, which uses cameras and sensors to parallel-park itself, using an unrealistically large parking space and wouldn’t let us try the system in a normal-size spot.

    Having said that, this new Japanese super-sedan challenges the widely accepted notion that the Germans are wrong in pursuing their attempts to concentrate as many control functions as possible onto a central computer joystick or controller. BMW’s system is called iDrive, Mercedes-Benz has Comand and Audi’s is called MMI (Multi-Media Interface).

    + click to enlarge | view gallery >

    Lexus, instead, has a riot of buttons and switches, some of them half-hidden, with sometimes-incomprehensible acronyms. Air-suspension settings, an electric parking brake, brake hold, radar cruise control with distance-setting control, four-zone climate control, 16-way power driver’s seat, 12-way front passenger seat, a complex 19-speaker audio system, an embedded 30-gigabyte hard drive for both music and navigation-data storage, navigation system, Bluetooth telephone integration, parking assist plus a totally automatic parallel-parking system, rain-sensing wipers, heated steering wheel, heated and cooled seats, power mirrors, pivoting headlights … these and other features, some standard and some optional, all require switches, buttons, knobs and a touch-sensitive screen. And that’s just for the driver; in the long-wheelbase L version, various upgrade options can litter the huge between-the-seats rear console with controls as well.

    2)A caveat: Even with the front passenger seat fully forward, the ottoman feature won’t allow longer-legged rear-seaters to stretch out.


    3)anything, the eight-speed Lexus transmission seems a bit busier than the seven-speed in the Mercedes-Benz S-Class, which is almost imperceptible in operation. The LS’ slightly numb-feeling electric steering also suffers a mite in comparison to the Mercedes mechanical rack-and-pinion system

    4)Amid all the electronic marvels aboard the new LS, the one sure to be most frequently demonstrated to slack-jawed neighbors is the hands-off parallel-parking system, which automatically backs and steers the LS into a curbside gap. (It’ll also automatically back the car into a space between two cars in a parking lot.) Lexus demonstrated the system to automotive writers using a curbside gap a full eight feet longer than the car itself — hardly a typical urban parallel-parking spot. When I insisted they make the space smaller, they closed it up by less than two feet … and then refused to let me do the test parking, saying they “didn’t want to risk the car’s paint job.”

    A Lexus representative let me watch the system do its job, which involved about 20 seconds of programming via the dash-mounted navigation screen, but I was impressed only by how much money I’d save by not ordering this option ($1,200 on the LS 460 L and $6,845 on the LS 460, because it’s bundled with other pricey options).


    5)You prefer scintillating driving dynamics, in which case a top German sedan might prove a better choice
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    I believe that the Forbes writeup is yet another realistic perspective on the LS. It reflects my sentiment very closely.
    Thanks, Dewey.

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Judging only from the pictures I've seen, the new LS looks pretty well proportioned with a "clean design". That's what I loved about the previous S. But somehow I don't suppose you called that exterior "boring"? I think the previous LS's exterior could more justifiably be called boring than the new one.

    You are comparing the old S to the new LS?

    In any event, I agree with you that the old LS was even more boring than the new one, but with regards to the old S, that vehicle would be more appropriately compared to the old LS, and not the new one. In its time, however, the previous S was a sleek beauty, while the old LS was a box.

    I actually do think that at the very end of its cycle, the previous S was getting a little old in the tooth, and was quite ripe for a change. This isn't uncommon, however, for a vehicle to need an update by the end of its cycle. The LS needed one, too.

    Now we have a more dramatic and contemporary S, which is applauded by most, but there are some folks that haven't warmed up to it. That's fine, because those folks can always get an "improved", but still boring, LS.

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Just to be clear, and avoid any over-reactive defensiveness, my posts about the LS styling have nothing to do with the merits of the car and where they are deserved.

    I have posted that the styling is rather bland and boring, and that there is a considerably large amount of hard plastic surrounding the instrument cluster and in the center stack. I have also indicated that the dash/stack/console layout is a common layout and is typical in many cars, including economy cars. Lastly, I have indicated that the LS reflects the appearanc of an upscale Toyota. I also think it may have become overpriced.

    These criticisms should not be misunderstood to mean that I have lost respect for the LS. It is perhaps the most reliable vehicle ever built, with some of the best fit and finish I've ever seen. It is obviously built with precision, and offers one of the finest sound systems in any car at any price. Quality is overflowing.

    I still believe, as always, that it is a serious contender in the HELC segment. Anyone that chooses such a car, would undoubtedly get a vehicle that will most likely deliver trouble-free comfortable transportation for many years. There is something to be said for that.

    I just want to make sure that it is clear that I am not bashing the vehicle just because I am willing to see both sides of the equation.

    TagMan
  • Yeah guys, but it parks itself. I don't know about you, but I've been fearing a car that can park itself for a while now, dreading it, shaking in my boots. Houdini got it right, we are all terrified of this self parking Toyota.........Hilarious
    I'm posting this from under my bed with all of the lights turned off. Ooops, my cell phone just went off, ieeeaggghhh the new LS just parked itself on top of me. Somebody call 911.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,894
    About 90% of all the interest, posts and discussions here are about the LS. An unprecedented amount of interest is being shown in the LS. That leaves about 10% of whatever time is left to discuss the other 7 or 8 cars. This probably reflects the interest of the general population as well. I am sure that Lexus appreciates the interest, I know I do.

    Oh, and Dewey, if you want a nose tweaking contest just tell us about all those fabulous Canadian Car Companies. How you doing with those these days? ;)

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Oh, and Dewey, if you want a nose tweaking contest just tell us about all those fabulous Canadian Car Companies. How you doing with those these days?

    Are you referring to this 1974 Canadian classic called the Bricklin? Canadian Bricklins and American Cadillacs and Lincolns are hardly ever mentioned in these forums. What a shame.

    image
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    About 90% of all the interest, posts and discussions here are about the LS. An unprecedented amount of interest is being shown in the LS.

    Well, of course. For goodness sakes, it is the only one at the moment that has just been launched as a new model.

    And with additional all-time new models such as the LS460L and the upcoming LS600hL. On top of that it is a big-seller in the U.S. market as well.

    I'd say those are some good reasons.

    But, if the percentage of chatter somehow makes you feel better about the shortcomings of the vehicles, then help yourself . . . but you'd only be fooling yourself. Because in reality, regardless of how much chit-chat, the cars are still exactly the same.

    TagMan
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,894
    Glad to see that you agree with my assessment, but you are wrong about the reason being the new model introduction. This forum has been dominated by the LS for as long as I can remember (a few months anyway). All anyone could talk about for 6 months before the introduction was the LS. It got as much attention before it was introduced as it does now.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 2,624
    Memories... Ahh, the Bricklin. To this then 14 year old, this was a car to lust after. My father actually had a deposit down on one. When the first one arrived at our local dealer (which, if I remember, also sold Triumphs and Fiats. I also wanted a TR7 and an X1/9. I probably got my appreciation of the odd car from my father whose first car that I remember him having was a Borgward. I'm sure that it was an HELC in it's day...), we cruised on down to give it the once over. Oy! I think I could have screwed a car together better than the lovely white example gracing the showroom floor. The windshield did not come close to fitting being the most glaring imperfection in my memory. Anyhow, Dad immediately cancelled the order and ended up buying a Datsun 260Z. My lust was satisfied, although I had to wait a couple of year to drive it.

    Thanks for the trip in the Wayback Machine, Dewey. And it still looks pretty good to me. Is it yours?

    And current lust? Jag XK. They had to drag me out of it at the Auto Show. I think I dropped my free Scion key ring in the Jag, but not my Suzuki waterbottle or Hyundai beach blanket. Ah, to have the tastes of a king and the pursestrings of a pauper... :(

    '13 Jaguar XF, '11 BMW 535xi, '02 Lexus RX300

  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,894
    In short they said this car just did not have what it takes. They said the RS4 and the TT did a better job of combining chassis control with ride comfort.

    Bottom line. "If the Audi S6 wants to get the same respect in the U.S. as the BMW M5 and the Mercedes E63, it needs a more refined suspension, better handling and, of course, more power". They called it "a heavy dancer with big feet". Ouch. Pretty harsh words for a car that costs almost $80,000.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    All anyone could talk about for 6 months before the introduction was the LS. It got as much attention before it was introduced as it does now.

    There was increased buzz about the new S-Class before, during, and after its intro as well.

    Heck, the '07 LS had its own forum prior to its intro, but I'm not sure if it hasn't changed once the car was officially released . . . all part of the "new vehicle" chatter.

    Bottom line thought is that all the talk in the world won't make the LS any different than it actually is . . . and that all becomes a matter for the reviewers and all of our opinions.

    I never said the news surrounding the new LS is boring, just the body style . . . and once I drive it, it's quite possible that it will deliver a boring drive as well.

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Good memories indeed. :)

    And, your current lust is right on target, IMO.

    TagMan
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484

    I see the problem with your test drive and Topspin's both of you are comparing a 2007 Benz to one that was designed in the 80's (1995 E420) or even earlier in the case of Topspin's test drive. To sit here and say that Lexus has influenced Mercedes is a ridiculous if you can't see where the LS' series entire being is due to Mercedes. A few cues from Lexus for Mercedes pales, doesn't even compare to a lifetime of envy and up until now blatant copying.

    A S-Class is supposed to be plusher than a E or ML, no matter what year they are.


    No, apparently you don't see the problem, since I spent now 2 days with the S550 and LS at the same time. :blush:

    The leather was nite and day better than a 90's E420, which is no excuse for having leather less appealing than a Geo Prism Lsi! :mad:

    C&D made mention as much of the LS' influence, when they tested the 2000 S430 against the LS, in one of the LS' wins over the S-Class, as the 1999 model developed a "tropical" interior, with colors and textures reminiscent of the LS. Too bad the interior didn't function like an LS. :cry:

    I have no problem saying the last S-Class was clearly better-looking than the LS was. But that script has flipped. "My Humps" is not even really close to the LS on that front now.

    So I guess your point is because the LS was inspired to meet, or exceed, the S from the satrt, that Mercedes couldn't possibly learn a new trick from the LS? Keep repeating that until someone believes it. That class is still in session. ;)

    Tag

    Sorry the LS doesn't impress you, but the New S has the same effect on me. It's rear end is GM-bad, and it's interior is no better in materials or appeal than the LS, plus it is still harder to use.

    For a car asking $86k to start, it better be impressive. VERY impressive! I don't see anything there to be impressed by but a legendary badge.

    I guess those saddlebags remove any slab-sided design, but, on second thought, maybe a slab-side wouldn't have been such a bad idea?

    DrFill
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Sorry the LS doesn't impress you, but the New S has the same effect on me.

    It is interesting to me how we see this so totally opposite one another, but that's what makes the world go 'round.

    Let me tell you that I do appreciate that you and I can have a difference of opinion without getting personally insulting (unlike some of these other posters) . . . you've got class, Doc.

    TagMan
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    The LS460 doesn't really impress me, either. It looks unendingly boring on the road- an LS460L drove right in front of my face, and when I glanced at it I thought it was an ES. But then it kept going, and going, and going... so I finally saw the back and it said "LS460L".

    If you have the means, the S550 is the only way to go in this class. It's dazzlingly beautiful. To say the interior isn't more appealing than the LS's is like saying the Audi A8's interior isn't nicer than the 7 Series's. The S-Class has a beautifully executed interior, whereas the LS460's looks almost identical to any other sedan in Lexus's lineup. A flagship sedan is supposed to be special, different, exclusive. The S-Class, A8, 7er and even XJ all fit this rule. The LS seems to be the only one that didn't get the memo.

    '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet • '04 Lexus RX330
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Let's compare the interiors of the LS to the S-Class.

    Here's the LS: Extremely common and typical dash/center stack/console layout, old stale idea in use for years. Nice, well-executed and functional, but nothing unique ... as these 3 pics show ...

    image

    image

    image

    And now here's the S-Class interior: Much less typical and less common, contemporary, unique, representing a new modern appearance and fresh theme. Very graceful as shown by these 3 pics ...

    image

    image

    image

    :)

    TagMan
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Continually throwing the ES into the converstaion is irrelevant, since the C-Class has aped the S-Class for generations, and nobody brings that up. Does the C-Class cheapen the S' looks? That plane flies both ways.

    I enjoy the New ES' looks too, (finally)! :)

    Tag

    The S-Class interior borrows from the 7 HEAVILY. More than the LS does from the 7 on the outside. I think I've seen this movie before (and didn't like it).

    So what was "unique" 4 years ago (uniquely bad) in the BMW is now the hot stuff in the Benz?

    When you are running to BMW for interior design ideas, your walking blind without a cane, my friend!

    Apparently Mercedes doesn't like it's own interiors too much, since they radically change with every generation. Maybe their customers are saying "Try Again, please!"

    How about doing the same with the 7 and S?

    Thanks for illustrating my point so well! ;)

    'Ppreciate dat!

    DrFill
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