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High End Luxury Cars

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  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    I didn't mean for this to come off as a rant to you. It's just that 98% of other publications are more or less in line with one another, except for Edmunds.

    Take the A8L W12 for instance. They found the ride to be on the bouncy side or almost Buick-like, while all others say it's one of the best in the class.

    They say that the S550's controls are just as hard to configure as the 7-Series, yet most agree that the controls aren't the most intuitive, but they're far more user friendly the daunting 7-Series and makes the old COMAND system look like an Atari compared to a PS3.

    I do agree that the S6's ride borders on stiff, but isn't that what a performance sedan offers. You won't get a comfy ride, but you'll get the ride of your life.....
  • In agreement, I can say for sure that the M5's ride is fairly rough as well. But, I've only driven the last gen [for about 20 minutes] and ridden in the new one for about the same time.

    I don't take any one evaluation as gospel. But, a few that are pretty much on the same page make sense as far as getting a balanced view.

    To be fair, the S6 never seems to get first in any that i've read. But, the acceleration #'s seems to be way off.

    It will be interesting to see what everyone says when the RS4 comes to town and blows every one up.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 6,022
    Got to agree with you on this one Dewey. I never liked the idea from the start. This is something you might want on a Buick.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    ...the Gransport is only offered as a coupe.

    Droptop... GranSport Spyder

    BTW, good luck with your new XK!
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    The leather was nite and day better than a 90's E420, which is no excuse for having leather less appealing than a Geo Prism Lsi!

    Doc you prove you knowledge of Mercedes to be non-existent with comments like these. The leather in 90's era Mercedes was that way for durability. Tell me when you see a 90's LS or Acura on a used car lot how many of the driver's seats are cracked and split down the middle compared to a Benz of the same era. Secondly, again if you've got to go back 10 years to make a point about leather quality in a 2007 Benz you're reaching to make a point that can't and won't be made. Ridiculous.

    C&D made mention as much of the LS' influence, when they tested the 2000 S430 against the LS, in one of the LS' wins over the S-Class, as the 1999 model developed a "tropical" interior, with colors and textures reminiscent of the LS. Too bad the interior didn't function like an LS.

    Only part true, they noted the change but I don't remember Lexus being mentioned in that sentence. Oh doc I don't think you want to talk about Car and Driver right now, I'll get to that in due time.

    I have no problem saying the last S-Class was clearly better-looking than the LS was. But that script has flipped. "My Humps" is not even really close to the LS on that front now.

    Good, we disagree then. True the new S does have large wheel arches, but have you seen one with the AMG package? It blows the stylized packing crate of a LS460 into the weeds. The S-Class has prescence and a stance that no giant Toyota could ever match.

    So I guess your point is because the LS was inspired to meet, or exceed, the S from the satrt, that Mercedes couldn't possibly learn a new trick from the LS? Keep repeating that until someone believes it. That class is still in session.

    No, my point is that nothing Mercedes has done or learned from Lexus comes within 200 miles of all the blatant copying, mimicing that Lexus has done. Period. To say MB was influenced by Lexus in the interior softness seems kinda silly when Lexus up until 2007 used to transplant whole bodies from Mercedes.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    If you have the means, the S550 is the only way to go in this class. It's dazzlingly beautiful. To say the interior isn't more appealing than the LS's is like saying the Audi A8's interior isn't nicer than the 7 Series's. The S-Class has a beautifully executed interior, whereas the LS460's looks almost identical to any other sedan in Lexus's lineup. A flagship sedan is supposed to be special, different, exclusive. The S-Class, A8, 7er and even XJ all fit this rule. The LS seems to be the only one that didn't get the memo.

    Bingo. The LS has the same design and layout of a Toyota right down the shape of the center stack.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Continually throwing the ES into the converstaion is irrelevant, since the C-Class has aped the S-Class for generations, and nobody brings that up. Does the C-Class cheapen the S' looks? That plane flies both ways.

    True, I bet Lexus SC430 drivers hate this when a Toyota Camry Solara flies by. Talking about cheapening the brand. Oh wait a mintue, they're different brands. Yikes.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Merc has constantly, ad-nausium, put up pics of Mercedes evolution in exterior styling. But they are at best inconsistent on interior styling, as the 1998, 2000, and 2006 have little incommon with each other. I didn't know the wheel needed reinvention. Mercedes interiors aren't "restyled", they are thrown out and started from scratch!

    Which is how design works when you trying to keep things fresh. For years Mercedes used the same interior layout right down to the pattern of the seats, but unlike Lexus Mercedes is more forward thinking when it comes to design both inside and out. Lexus couldn't build a CLS if they tried.

    I see chinks in the armor.

    Apparentley you're about the only one.

    The S-Class is a step back, inside and out. Still a fine car and all, but nothing for Lexus to fear. Lexus has it right, and Mercedes is trying to find an interior identity, and maybe seperate it's design from Maybach, which is better (from the last S500/600)

    IYO, allow me to use a Lexus theme here: "the market has spoken and it loves the new S-Class".

    I gotta tell ya all this design commentary from you is really funny when Lexus has nothing that even evokes any passion or lust in any of their "designs". For years we have to hear ad-nausium how great the LS430 was yet it looked like the box that the IS or GS came in. How you can go from accepting a design like the LS430 to being such a critic of a brand like MB that has had "design" all over Lexus is beyond me. The new LS merely manages to look ok at best and yet it is supposed be some type of design revolution?

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Really? Just read the current Audi S6 follow-up here on Edmunds where it tried to be a BMW and/or MB but failed miserably!!

    I think he meant in terms of design. It is no secret that Audi wants to be as prestigous as MB and BMW.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    It is almost certain that the exterior and interior styling of the next generation BMW 7 Series will be emulated by both Lexus and MB in fuutre years.

    Gotta disagree with the "MB" part in there. The current S-Class has a rear end like the original Maybach concept from 1997, not the current 7-Series. The 7 came out years after the Maybach concept of 1997 so if anything..........

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Merc1, thanks for the E-Class family tree. Very good history, and yes, like yourself, I'm on the hunt for the best E-Class of all time(or up until this year's E63 perhaps), the 500E.

    There is one in the classified in the back of Autoweek right now. A 1994 model with only 8K on the clock supposedly owned by Al Unser Jr. No price listed of course, it is likely in the ridiculous for me category, but you can't beat that mileage.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Remember you said you could live with the LS placing second in a C&D comparo? Well I don't know how you're going to take this, but Autospies is reporting that in the Jan issue of C&D there is a comparo of the LS460, S550, 750i, A8, and XJ8 Super 8. The S550 placed first and the LS460 place dead last.

    As I type this I'm trying to remember that really wasn't a fair test to the LS460 because they should have used a LS460L, not the SWB LS460, but still last place? I wouldn't have guessed that in a million years. That is the same place the S430 you loved to talk down about placed.

    Now this by no means is an etched in stone impression. I still want to see the all the LWB variants compared.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Ok these are the LWB variants, the A8L, 750iL, LS460L, S550 (only comes one way, long) and XJ Super 8 so it looks like this was a fair fight afterall Doc. Some scans of the article from some of the autospies posters:

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    The official rankings:

    1st - MB S550
    2nd - Audi A8L
    3rd - BMW 750iL
    4th - Jaguar XJ8 Super V8
    5th - Lexus LS460L

    An upset of major proportions IMO. Second place I could see, but the LS460L placing last? The LS460L was 93K, only 10K less than the Benz, that may have cost it. Lexus seems to have forgotten their value price roots. Still reading....

    M
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Ok guys, I got around to taking and uploading some pictures. Enjoy.

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  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Wow she is pretty! I don't think I've seen that color interior relationship before with the dash/seats. Is the dash supposed to be a similar color to the top?

    M
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Is the dash supposed to be a similar color to the top?

    Actually the top is navy blue, but it appears more as a dark gray in the photos.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 6,022
    What a laugher. The only surprise here is that they didn't award Mercedes an extra 20 points for having the largest wheel well arches. Unbelieveably biased to the point of being ridiculous.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Only the first of many similar responses I'm sure. I guess when they put the previous LS430 and LS400 models over everything else they were right on the money? Right?

    Gotta find out what the Doc will say since these legendary Car and Driver comparo have been the meat of his "LS is superior" rants through the years and they've put the LS so highly in the past.

    The only thing they were obviously biased towards was the actual driving aspect of the cars, because on the luxury side of the equation they clearly stated the LS460L is likely the most opulent car in the class.

    A Lexus shouldn't cost 93K either, with a scant 10K seperating it from the most expensive car in the test, the Mercedes. Lexus seems to have forgotten that their price advantage was a big part of those wins in the past. I think you forgot that too while hollering "biased".

    When you think about it, a brand new LS has never faced a brand new S-Class (both new for 07') before so things have changed. No more aging S-Class models to kick around.

    M
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Unbelieveably biased to the point of being ridiculous.

    I dont think thats really true. The article was written from a performance perspective, and the LS is going to lose that race. They did mention that if driving dynamics are not a top priority than the LS would be a good choice.

    I thought some of the middle place finishes were strange, though. Last time they didnt really like the A8 or 7, and gave the XJ second place. This time they think the A8 and 7 are great.. but the cars havent really changed.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Bingo, they said exactly that. LG, the voice of reason from the opposing camp.

    I guess the location and specimen on hand accounted for the placement of the A8 and 7-Series this time around.

    I've been waiting for the A8 to get some glory from a U.S. magazine outside of the MT comparo.

    M
  • that A8 sure is long on the tooth to come in second like that. I guess it's long in the gorgeous tooth as well.

    And only 1 point between 1st and second place. well, well.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Congratulations Lexusguy!
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    The S550 placed first and the LS460 place dead last.

    Great post Merc1. Following your posts is like following a chess mathch and that last post of yours is equivalent to a "Check Mate" move. The new anthem in LS forums will be : "The King is Dead, Long live the King "(in the form of the 2012 LS480) !
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 6,022
    The article was written from a performance perspective.

    That is exactly what I meant by the article being biased. No surprise.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • OMG, I can't believe this is happening! How the heck do you read those scanned pages anyway, the letter are way too small?
  • Very nice LG.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    You can enlarge the page by moving your cursor to the box with the four arrows on the bottom right side of the page.
  • Thanks. It's a good day for German HELM fans, enjoy.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Oh c'mon GS,

    the S vs. LS vs. A8 vs. 7 Series vs. XJ has as much relevance to me as watching Monarch butterflies fluttering around during spring.

    BMW 5 series or 3 series comparisons to other models has more relevance to me since those are the two cars that are currently in my garage. And I couldn't care less even if every magazine/web reviewer thinks less of my cars since it is me the owner(including my wife) that loves these two cars.

    I am certainly not anti-Lexus. I have a friend who is a VP of Toyota Canada and he invited me over to his house at Whitby to test drive his company car which happens to be a Lexus GS450h. I am very excited about his invitation since I am very interested in the novelty of the 450h's drivetrain.

    Nor am I anti-Toyota. I was the first person in Toronto to order a hybrid Camry. But after learning about its small 10.5 cubic feet trunk space I cancelled my order.

    So this C & D article may be a victory for some, but certainly not for me.
  • Well, the article left no room for the wars of words on this board by placing the LS last. It's like watching a close fight and one guy got knocked out :cry: .
    Of course, the review/write up represent just the writer's point of views. We all make our car buying decision based on what fit us best.
    I agree with you on the GSh. Keep us posted on your impression. I saw couple people here liking it.
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