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High End Luxury Cars

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Comments

  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    "I am willing to wager that if a 62K$ SWB LS460 was used in the Jan. 07 C & D comparison test then the LS would have preserved its number one rank over the MB S Class, Audi A8, BMW 7 and Jaguar XJ. "

    Hmm... well, wouldn't it make sense that the others would be SWB too? This excludes the S550, because it's only offered in LWB on our shores.

    And, by the way, It actually doesn't start at $61-62K as Lexus says. That just makes the car look like a better value. However, the least expensive option package, which you MUST select on the Lexus website (they won't let you buy an LS460 without an option package), brings the vehicle up to $67K. That puts it squarely in A8 territory. Also, a loaded XJ8 is less expensive than the base price of the $69K A8 and about the same as a base LS460 ($68K). The 7 Series, on the other hand, is the car I see as the biggest ripoff in the group. $75,000 base for what, exactly? A badge? It's both incompetent and very gauche in this company. Whoever buys a 750i over an A8 or LS460 is out of their mind. You have to really want the handling- and even there, the A8 equals and/or surpasses it. According to most car mags, at least.

    I think the only players in this class are the LS, A8 and S-Class. With the money the S-Class commands, it's off my list. I'll be getting a 911 in a few years (probably just a Carrera Cabriolet- the S shaves 0.2 seconds off the acceleration for $10,000!), so I want to save up. I'd probably end up getting an A8 (which I am getting the wife, as I previously stated), because I drove it, and it offers a splendid balance between exquisite luxury and a small-car sporty feel.

    '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet • '04 Lexus RX330

    Oh, and... I don't think a SWB would've made all the difference for the LS to be in the #1 spot. In the article, they LOVED how the rear seat was so luxurious. I actually think it would've gotten less points if it was a SWB test.
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    It's not actually a 760i. It's the size of the 760Li's V12 (they don't offer the SWB 760i any more- noone bought it -what's the point of it anyway?), but has only 260hp because hydrogen is so new. It's not as self-indulgent as you think.

    However, I wouldn't get one loaned to me if I could. A GS450h would be so much easier, if less efficient.

    '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet • '04 Lexus RX330
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Sorry about that. I am rarely satisfied with my first "draft." :blush:
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    No leaving you in the dust with that handsome, exciting Carrera!

    Saw quite a few 911's over Thanksgiving. All lookers.
    Best of luck with it!
  • How appropriate that your Grandmother drove a Lexus with grabby brakes, since Grandmother's are the Lexus core customer. It would be nice to think that the problem was me and to be sure, I'm no Dale Jr. However, since none of the other cars had grabby brakes, my money is on the.. well..Lexus has grabby brakes. No conspiracy theory here as we've seen this reported before.

    Now, I reported that I thought the LS was a very fine car, and If it were my money, it would be in the garage long before the 7 series. But it's still the car that appeals to my head and not to my heart. Or to put it like you described, the Grandmother in me would have to come out in order for me to have anything with the L on the hood.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    "Grandmother's (sic) are the Lexus core customer."

    With comments like that, you will be putting me out of business! :surprise:
  • He described it perfectly. My Grandma used to drive cars with touchy brakes. Well we all know what cars those are.

    All in fun Houdini........
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Better car for this comparison:

    A 750i or M5?

    Since performance is so heavily-weighted at this time, why not? The 5 still doesn't have a stick, so it's basically a very fast slushy, just like the others. Just a lot faster! :surprise:

    Eye sore one today, in deep Blue. So Boss! MUCH more appealing than the 7. Nite and day.

    DrFill
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 6,023
    Hey, don't get so defensive. Just learn how to drive and you will have much more fun!!

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • Your just at odds with yourself. Learn how to drive a Lexus and it will be fun?

    I had a great time at the "Taste" The food was great. I had a blast driving the S. Hey, does your Grandma do reviews for Edmunds?
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Oh, and... I don't think a SWB would've made all the difference for the LS to be in the #1 spot. In the article, they LOVED how the rear seat was so luxurious. I actually think it would've gotten less points if it was a SWB test.

    I doubt it. It made one hell of a difference a few years ago. And despite everything the LS is a substantially better car than a few years ago.

    think the only players in this class are the LS, A8 and S-Class.

    All 5 cars on this list dont excite me at all. I am not into oversized bling. The car I would pick beyond the 5 would be....(please refer to my next post)
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Better car for this comparison:

    A 750i or M5?


    A M5 definitely. I would pick a manual M5 over any of those HELCS on the C&D list. The next generation M5 will hopefully be my future family car.
    My future empty nester car will hopefully be a Carerra S as Tagman had just bought.
    So DrFill I am 99.999% certain that you yourself would prefer owning a manual BMW M5 over a Lexus LS460L. C'mon DrFill confess and say the truth and nothing but the truth! ;)
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 6,023
    Just go take your meds and lick your wounds. It will feel better tomorrow. It's all just good fun.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Didn't say the seats are the same now. This only proves my point. The seats were too hard, unappealing, and needed to be improved. Mercedes improved the seats, which makes the car better and more appealing.

    Doc you never had a point to begin with. You brought up a seat in a car that was designed in the 80's. The only thing you've shown here is Mercedes' progress. A S-Class seat is supposed to be plush, now go sit in a CLK or any other lower level Benz and you'll see that most of (not all) of that firmness is still there. Mercedes' seats used to have their own "suspension" and they were part of the ride, but things change and that change was primarily brough on by cost. Again anyone who owned an older Mercedes will tell you this.

    I didn't make any comment about idrive so you've misquoted me yet again. That was someone else.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I am willing to wager that if a 62K$ SWB LS460 was used in the Jan. 07 C & D comparison test then the LS would have preserved its number one rank over the MB S Class, Audi A8, BMW 7 and Jaguar XJ.

    Why? Because of price!


    Bingo! Their will likely be another round of comparos when the S450 comes out and it will be against the LS460 (no L).

    In this case of this comparo on this day, a 93K Lexus that doesn't have the driver skills that it should come with considering it carried a premium over the Audi and BMW couldn't cut it. A 10K price advantage isn't one at this level, now Lexus' usual 15-20K or more price advantage would have put it higher up in the rankings I think but still not the winner with the other issues they found which had nothing to do with it being a pre-production model.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I sank just as deeply in the S550's driver's seat as I did in the LS460's.

    Well all behinds vary...lol! Neither seat is supposed to appeal to a "serious driver", but I did find that S550 seat was a tad bit better. Considering what mush the LS430's seats were anything in the LS460 would be an improvement.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Many times when you drive a car for the first time there will be things that you are not used to. I have driven cars that had much more sensitive brakes than I was used to but in a short while they felt fine.

    To be fair this is true. I found the brakes in my CLK to be grabby and hard to modulate at first, but now I'm a pro at it.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Are you even on AutoSpies? Like posting?

    Heck no. I have never seen a bigger group of clueless people (on both sides of the aisle) in my life. I like to read it sometimes in order to appreciate Edmunds and Germancarzone, but thats about it. I'd never post there.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    To tell you the truth I don't understand the point of the car, but there it is a slow V12 BMW. Pardon me while I walk out across the interstate.

    Won't this thing explode if hit hard from the rear?

    M
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Well, I would eliminate both the the S-Class and LS460, based on the too soft driver's seats, but you are correct. These HELC's are designed more for pampering. Serious drivers need not apply.

    The A8 driver's seat was better than the S or LS-comfortable but firmer. If I was shopping for a HELC (instead of a 335i coupe), it would come down to the BMW 7 vs the Audi A8.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Had a point, made a point, and you confirmed it for me, so thank you on that. ;)

    DrFill
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    That is not a well kept secret. My weakness for anything manual is well-established.

    I would lay my life on the line for a 550i, but the cursed iDrive is standard, so I shall live quite a long time, I figure.

    I SHOULD be an avid BMW fan, but their interiors are atrocious. Couldn't see myself spending years inside those prisons. :cry:

    Someday, BMW will complete the circle. Someday.

    DrFill
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    I SHOULD be an avid BMW fan, but their interiors are atrocious.

    If you were REALLY a BMW fan, you'd be in a BMW and you would not be going "Woo, woo, woo "over a Lexus!

    TagMan
  • anthonypanthonyp Posts: 1,857
    Thats the way it shook out for me and I got the a8...The next time I will give serious consideration to the 3....I am enjoying the Mazda (I think it also is a 3) so can just imagine what a bmw would be like....I know this sounds crazy, but I find the interior to be plenty roomy, so my concern next would be the safety of the 3 vs say a 5....The bmw 7 has a very ponderous look and feel to it....I unfortunately find the bmw interiors to be lacking in the looks department, and quality of materials, but that is sort of the look for my wife`s stationwagon...Good and functional.... I further find the prices of the S A8 Bmw 7 to be getting pretty high, and now no fallback to good value with Lexus A shame Tony
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    BMW's are not and never will be about their interiors.
    You seem to be missing the BMW message.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    And, by the way, It actually doesn't start at $61-62K as Lexus says. That just makes the car look like a better value. However, the least expensive option package, which you MUST select on the Lexus website (they won't let you buy an LS460 without an option package), brings the vehicle up to $67K.

    A plain vanilla LS460 has a listed MSRP but is not offered at MSRP? Sort of like an ice cream vendor offering a scoop of vanilla to you for $1.00 but will only sell it to you if you order it with fudge for $5.00.

    I am no lawyer but this sounds like misleading pricing to me? I am sure that if a customer personally visits a Lexus dealership he will be able to order a 62K$ LS460, otherwise what is the point of listing it for sale for around $62K :confuse:

    I love the way BMWs are priced since I hate gizmos. I end up spending not so much money since both my 5 and 3 series are optioned with a modestly priced Sport Package and a metallic paint colour. Nothing more and nothing less. I would not have it any other way.

    Even in restaurants I hate fixed menus where I am forced to eat things that I hate like a tofu salad. A La Carte and freedom choice is the only way to go IMO.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    A plain vanilla LS460 has a listed MSRP but is not offered at MSRP? Sort of like an ice cream vendor offering a scoop of vanilla to you for $1.00 but will only sell it to you if you order it with fudge for $5.00.

    This is nothing new. The ES and RX were technically "available" (I'm not sure if they still are) with no options and cloth seats, but there's not a chance that any dealer would order any like that.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Hey Tony.

    Try a test drive in a 335i sedan like Dewey got.

    The 3 and 5 are both highly rated in safety testing, by the way.

    I had a close call once with an inattentive cell phone driver in a king kong SUV. She was coming into my lane on the interstate-problem was I was already there. My 2002 325i's extraordinary agility allowed me to avoid contact with her.
    I don't think I would have been so lucky in a Lexus LS.

    PS- I always rent compacts at the airport-usually a blast to drive!
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    I hate fixed menus where I am forced to eat things that I hate like a tofu salad.

    Forced to eat a tofu salad? Intolerable, unless located in Hollywood or Beverly Hills, where it would be normally expected. ;)

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    BMW's are not and never will be about their interiors.
    You seem to be missing the BMW message.


    That's a bullseye. Definately for the 3 and 5 series.

    But, I still have the feeling that the upper series buyers expect a somewhat more luxurious interior.

    TagMan
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